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Thread: Governor McDonnell in NoVA for Town Hall - Wednesday, August 25 - 7PM-8PM

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Post Governor McDonnell in NoVA for Town Hall - Wednesday, August 25 - 7PM-8PM

    Dear Friends,

    Please join me at Governor McDonnell's town hall meeting next Wednesday, August 25, from 7:00-8:00 p.m. The town hall meeting will be held at the Northern Virginia Technology Council Auditorium, located in the CIT building, 2214 Rock Hill Road, Suite 300, in Herndon.

    This is one of several meetings Governor McDonnell plans to hold across the state as part of his town hall tour entitled, "Virginia Speaks: A Conversation about Jobs, Government Reform and Our Future.

    If you are not able to attend, you can view the Governor's Town Hall PowerPoint Presentation here and I will be happy to pass along any suggestions you may have. Please email them to me at DelTGreason@house.virginia.gov .

    I hope you are having a great summer.....see you soon!

    Tag

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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    Dear Friends,

    Please join me at Governor McDonnell's town hall meeting next Wednesday, August 25, from 7:00-8:00 p.m. The town hall meeting will be held at the Northern Virginia Technology Council Auditorium, located in the CIT building, 2214 Rock Hill Road, Suite 300, in Herndon.

    This is one of several meetings Governor McDonnell plans to hold across the state as part of his town hall tour entitled, "Virginia Speaks: A Conversation about Jobs, Government Reform and Our Future.

    If you are not able to attend, you can view the Governor's Town Hall PowerPoint Presentation here and I will be happy to pass along any suggestions you may have. Please email them to me at DelTGreason@house.virginia.gov .

    I hope you are having a great summer.....see you soon!

    Tag
    I don't have anything else to do so I may go.

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    Copied from the other Town Hall thread:

    In 1989, Virginia passed its first-in-the-nation state instant check statute. Nine years later, the national instant check system (NICS) became available. Since 1998, there has been a federal requirement for purchasers of any modern firearm from any gun dealer in every state to undergo a criminal history records check.

    So, for the past twelve years, the Virginia Firearms Transaction Program (VFTP) has been obsolete and unnecessary. For all gun purchases, the VFTP requires additional paperwork (Virginia State Police Form 65 in addition to the federal Form 4473), imposes a two dollar fee (state gun tax - no fee for NICS) and causes inordinate delays, particularly on weekends at gun shows and gun stores since the Virginia State Police is not adequately staffing this operation to meet demand.

    The solution to this persistent problem is not to increase the state gun fee/tax or appropriate more state government funds that Virginia taxpayers cannot afford, especially in these tough budget times, to perpetuate this antiquated and duplicative program. Instead the VFTP must be repealed so that only NICS will be required for gun purchases in Virginia as in 35 other states.

    With your help, pro-gun Attorney General Bob McDonnell was elected the 71st Governor of Virginia nine months ago. When he was inaugurated on January 16, Governor McDonnell signed Executive Order #2 establishing the Governor's Commission on Government Reform and Restructuring. Its stated purpose is to "conduct a thorough review of Virginia state government" and to "identify opportunities for creating efficiencies in state government, including streamlining, consolidating, or eliminating redundant and unnecessary agency services, governing bodies, regulations and programs."

    The Virginia Firearms Transaction Program has certainly become redundant and unnecessary since NICS took effect in 1998.

    I hope to be at the town hall meeting to support getting rid of VSP backround checks. Is there any information about needing to submit questions/suggestions in advance or needing to sign up to speak?

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Here's the whole remaining schedule:

    http://www.governor.virginia.gov/new...ase.cfm?id=290

    August 24, 2010 - 7:00pm-8:30pm

    * Fredericksburg
    University of Mary Washington
    George Washington Hall
    Dodd Auditorium
    1301 College Avenue
    Fredericksburg

    August 25, 2010 -7:00pm-8:30pm

    * Fairfax
    CIT Auditorium
    2214 Rock Hill Road, Suite 300
    Herndon

    August 26, 2010 -7:00pm-8:30pm

    * Harrisonburg
    James Madison University
    East Campus Dining Hall Montpelier Room
    800 S. Main Street
    Harrisonburg

    August 30, 2010 - 7:00pm-8:30pm

    * Danville
    Institute for Advanced Learning and Research
    Great Hall
    150 Slayton Ave.
    Danville
    ***Partnering with the Sorensen Southside Public Leadership Series***

    August 31, 2010 - 7:00pm-8:30pm

    * Bristol
    Bristol Public Library
    J. Henry Kegley Meeting Room
    701 Goode Street
    Bristol

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    Quote Originally Posted by VApatriot View Post
    Copied from the other Town Hall thread:

    In 1989, Virginia passed its first-in-the-nation state instant check statute. Nine years later, the national instant check system (NICS) became available. Since 1998, there has been a federal requirement for purchasers of any modern firearm from any gun dealer in every state to undergo a criminal history records check.

    So, for the past twelve years, the Virginia Firearms Transaction Program (VFTP) has been obsolete and unnecessary. For all gun purchases, the VFTP requires additional paperwork (Virginia State Police Form 65 in addition to the federal Form 4473), imposes a two dollar fee (state gun tax - no fee for NICS) and causes inordinate delays, particularly on weekends at gun shows and gun stores since the Virginia State Police is not adequately staffing this operation to meet demand.

    The solution to this persistent problem is not to increase the state gun fee/tax or appropriate more state government funds that Virginia taxpayers cannot afford, especially in these tough budget times, to perpetuate this antiquated and duplicative program. Instead the VFTP must be repealed so that only NICS will be required for gun purchases in Virginia as in 35 other states.

    With your help, pro-gun Attorney General Bob McDonnell was elected the 71st Governor of Virginia nine months ago. When he was inaugurated on January 16, Governor McDonnell signed Executive Order #2 establishing the Governor's Commission on Government Reform and Restructuring. Its stated purpose is to "conduct a thorough review of Virginia state government" and to "identify opportunities for creating efficiencies in state government, including streamlining, consolidating, or eliminating redundant and unnecessary agency services, governing bodies, regulations and programs."

    The Virginia Firearms Transaction Program has certainly become redundant and unnecessary since NICS took effect in 1998.

    I hope to be at the town hall meeting to support getting rid of VSP backround checks. Is there any information about needing to submit questions/suggestions in advance or needing to sign up to speak?
    Just so i understand this correctly you want to add to Virginias unemployment. You also want to get rid of the nations top firearms transaction center one that helps the Va state police lead not only all other states with arrests and convictions of people that attempt to purchase a firearm and are prohibited but also leads the feds. I will point out one thing to the people that keep saying this is a redundant center. Look at Arizona they are trying to put someting in place to help their state becase the feds wont do their job. So why would you want to get rid of a state agency that is standing between you and the fed gov. Once things like this are gone its hard to get them back to see this you need to see the states taht are trying to get a firearms transaction center back in their state. Maybe you shouyld check out the differences between the 2 before you want to get rid of something. dont rely on what someone tells you do the research and here is the first thing you can check if you get denied in a NICS state and want to appeal how long does it take i think if you call the NICS phone number it tells you 174 days in Va its less than 2 weeks. yeah id like to wait the extra time while the feds do nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tkd2006 View Post
    Just so i understand this correctly you want to add to Virginias unemployment. You also want to get rid of the nations top firearms transaction center one that helps the Va state police lead not only all other states with arrests and convictions of people that attempt to purchase a firearm and are prohibited but also leads the feds. I will point out one thing to the people that keep saying this is a redundant center. Look at Arizona they are trying to put someting in place to help their state becase the feds wont do their job. So why would you want to get rid of a state agency that is standing between you and the fed gov. Once things like this are gone its hard to get them back to see this you need to see the states taht are trying to get a firearms transaction center back in their state. Maybe you shouyld check out the differences between the 2 before you want to get rid of something. dont rely on what someone tells you do the research and here is the first thing you can check if you get denied in a NICS state and want to appeal how long does it take i think if you call the NICS phone number it tells you 174 days in Va its less than 2 weeks. yeah id like to wait the extra time while the feds do nothing.
    How will this add to unemployment? The government workers can be moved to do something more usefull somewhere else.

    How does a Virginia system keep me from being denied by the Fed NICS? Federal forms and backround checks must be done for every single firearm purchase from a dealer in every single state. If there is a problem with the Fed system, filling out a Virginia form will not help ME.

    I am, quite frankly, tired of filling out extra paperwork and paying an additional tax on every gun I buy, just so that I can be told twice that I have no criminal record. So long as the Fed system is required in all states, I see no need to have to pay for a second system in Virginia. So unless you can come up with a way for the system to be funded entirely by felons and other people who might be lawfully denied, then I want nothing to do with it.

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    So you seem to think NICS would be better for all of Virginia or just you. Like i said do the research and get all the facts before you make a wish list. How can filling out a Va firearms form help if NICS has a problem. Well bottom line is if you are one of many people that get delayed because of something in your past Va will help you get the problem straight NICS will leave you denied or not approve the transaction at all and leave it up to the dealer to release the firearm.

    I also dont how you are being told TWICE that you have no criminal record do you thinks NICS calls va and say hes approved and them VA runs you again. Understand NICS is nothing more than a server storing information and people pull info from it, be they a federal employee or state that does their own check. Look if you are getting delayed the question is why if you were not getting delayed you would not open your mouth about this because it wouldnt affect you. if you have a past criminal history then being delayed shows what you do when you are younger follows you. If you have a common name sorry if someone has used your information then get it corrected.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tkd2006 View Post
    Look if you are getting delayed the question is why if you were not getting delayed you would not open your mouth about this because it wouldnt affect you. if you have a past criminal history then being delayed shows what you do when you are younger follows you. If you have a common name sorry if someone has used your information then get it corrected.
    Criminal history usually has nothing to do with delayed checks.
    I've never been delayed but know lots of people who have. It's always been during the gun show weekends, when they're swamped with calls. They're understaffed, so in order to complete all the checks they end up delaying the sales for a couple hours to a full day before completing them all. One doesn't need to have a criminal history or common name to be delayed, it just needs to be a busy weekend with lots of gun transfers happening in the state for it to bog them down. Without raising taxes or raising the background check fee to hire more workers, why not just get rid of a redundant system? In fact, why can't Virginia be like many other states where permit holders don't even need to have the check done for every purchase since they already had an extensive one done to get the CHP? Federal law allows for it, so why not take advantage of it?
    Last edited by nova; 08-24-2010 at 08:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    Nice job assuming VAPatriot has a questionable history...

    I've never been delayed but know lots of people who have. It's always been during the gun show weekends, when they're swamped with calls. They're understaffed, so in order to complete all the checks they end up delaying the sales for a couple hours to a full day before completing them all. One doesn't need to have a criminal history or common name to be delayed, it just needs to be a busy weekend with lots of gun transfers happening in the state for it to bog them down. Without raising taxes or raising the background check fee to hire more workers, why not just get rid of a redundant system? In fact, why can't Virginia be like many other states where permit holders don't even need to have the check done for every purchase since they already had an extensive one done to get the CHP? Federal law allows for it, so why not take advantage of it?
    Thanks, Nova. I actually ment to make the same point. I know that permits in Alaska (witch are optional) allow you to forgo backround checks. I also have a friend who is routinely delayed, allegedly, simply do to the fact that he has so many different carry permits. He has been told that simply having his name pop up in several different databases (although not for any crimes) is causing them to delay his purchases.

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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by tkd2006 View Post
    Just so i understand this correctly you want to add to Virginias unemployment.

    Just so I understand this correctly, you want taxpayers to pay for redundant government bureaucracy in the name of "decreasing unemployment"?

    That's a great idea...

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    Nice seeing you, Ed.

    Did you see the president of GMU there too?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    Criminal history usually has nothing to do with delayed checks.
    I've never been delayed but know lots of people who have. It's always been during the gun show weekends, when they're swamped with calls. They're understaffed, so in order to complete all the checks they end up delaying the sales for a couple hours to a full day before completing them all. One doesn't need to have a criminal history or common name to be delayed, it just needs to be a busy weekend with lots of gun transfers happening in the state for it to bog them down.
    this has to be the most outlandish thing ive heard. If you could please tell me how would they delay you and why in the world would they want to. If your name is entered into a computer system do you honestly think someone is looking at all the names and decideing to pick out a few and delay for the reason you state. Just so i understand, you are saying people that would normally get an instant approval are delayed because its a gunshow weekend. All i can say is WOW. Question do you have anything to back any of this up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VaLiberty View Post
    Just so I understand this correctly, you want taxpayers to pay for redundant government bureaucracy in the name of "decreasing unemployment"?

    That's a great idea...
    your defination of redundant and mine must be 2 different things. to me it would be redundant if the FEDS
    made the same arrests that Va state police do but they dont. No other state even comes close to attempted
    firearm purchases. now if the feds want to step up and enforce the law as its writtem then you could argue
    but they dont.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    Nice seeing you, Ed.

    Did you see the president of GMU there too?
    Nice seeing you too Dave. Nope.. did not see anyone from GMU (besides you) and not one word about me Open Carrying. Not even a weird eye from the secret service or the state police.

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    Yep. Lets get rid of the extra VA step. While at it, I vote to increase the number of unemployed government workers on all fronts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tkd2006 View Post
    this has to be the most outlandish thing ive heard. If you could please tell me how would they delay you and why in the world would they want to. If your name is entered into a computer system do you honestly think someone is looking at all the names and decideing to pick out a few and delay for the reason you state. Just so i understand, you are saying people that would normally get an instant approval are delayed because its a gunshow weekend. All i can say is WOW. Question do you have anything to back any of this up.
    There was a VCDL VA Alert a while ago stating that they had reduced staffing in positions where they process the checks.

    And, yes, they are understaffed to the point that the high volume generated by gun shows overwhelms them.

    Your name may be in a computer database, but the process is not automated...a state employee must take the phone call and type your name in the computer.

    Same as calling any help desk during time of high volume...your wait time increases.

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    Forgive my ignorance here on the subject, but are there not states that have this service online? I cannot remember where I was, but the dealer at a gun show was typing the information into the computer, and the results came back almost as soon as the "enter" button was pushed.

    Carl

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    Quote Originally Posted by tkd2006 View Post
    No other state even comes close to attempted
    firearm purchases.
    You imply you know a lot about our system here in Virginia. How is that so?

    I notice you conceal your whereabouts; aren't you from California?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tkd2006 View Post
    this has to be the most outlandish thing ive heard. If you could please tell me how would they delay you and why in the world would they want to. If your name is entered into a computer system do you honestly think someone is looking at all the names and decideing to pick out a few and delay for the reason you state. Just so i understand, you are saying people that would normally get an instant approval are delayed because its a gunshow weekend. All i can say is WOW. Question do you have anything to back any of this up.
    Maybe I know this because I've been told this exact reason by several gun dealers I know personally? I know this because friends of mine I know very well and have no criminal history are approved within 2 minutes during a slow week but when purchased during the weekend of the Expo Center show they're delayed until the next day?
    Last edited by nova; 08-26-2010 at 11:21 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by t11spanner View Post
    Forgive my ignorance here on the subject, but are there not states that have this service online? I cannot remember where I was, but the dealer at a gun show was typing the information into the computer, and the results came back almost as soon as the "enter" button was pushed.

    Carl
    In VA, every check I've had done was by phone, with a human being on the other end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by t11spanner View Post
    Forgive my ignorance here on the subject, but are there not states that have this service online? I cannot remember where I was, but the dealer at a gun show was typing the information into the computer, and the results came back almost as soon as the "enter" button was pushed.

    Carl
    Yes Virginia has this option but some dealers chose not to use this they would rather call in a transaction. Which as Nova would like to point out on weekends his friends that get instant approvals seem to have to wait well if the dealers would use the online option then they probally would not have to wait.

    Glock27bill my comment above should explain why all of your checks were done that way. The dealers have the option to speed things up but if they dont want to well thats on them.

    Nova do you honestly think a dealer is going to tell you its his fault (since hes not using the online service) that your delay is taking so long, no hes going to pass the buck and blame the state. Also how many dealers do you think pass along the wrong information like transposing your date of birth or fist name and middle name which adds extra time to correct their mistakes do you think they will tell you "sorry i gave them the wrong information on your date of birth and when i realized it i had to call them to correct the mistake so they had to rerun your check". yeah i see that happening "sorry for your delay but it was my fault for not reading a form correctly" vs "its their fault call them"

    The problem is while you have friends that have to wait to buy a gun you dont know everything about that person if they have ever been arrested then in my opinion they deserve to have to wait while their history is looked at. You are also only getting one side of the story which can color your judgement esp since its happening to a friend or even to yourself. Like i sated try to get all the facts or at least as many as possible before passing judgement. Someone posted about me assuming VAPATRIOT having a questionable history, please show me where i said that. My comment was directed to anyone that has to wait due to having been arrested at some point in their life.

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    E-gad! Whether the Virginia check provides a useful benefit or not is not a concern of mine. Having the first background check is already an impediment to good people being able to exercise their rights to the ownership of firearms as it starts with a presumption that one is not legally allowed to purchase from an FFL until the prospective owner proves his / her innocence. Having a second check is just another impediment and certainly no boon to liberty. If someone comes along that will make efforts to rid our society of impediments to liberty such as a state based background check for the purchase of firearms then that person will receive my support. Why should one feel guilty for removing an impediment to liberty that sucks off the taxpayer's teet?
    Last edited by jmelvin; 08-27-2010 at 10:56 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    Nice seeing you too Dave. Nope.. did not see anyone from GMU (besides you) and not one word about me Open Carrying. Not even a weird eye from the secret service or the state police.
    Secret Service? You mean Virginia State Police Executive Protective Unit?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tkd2006 View Post
    Which as Nova would like to point out on weekends his friends that get instant approvals seem to have to wait well if the dealers would use the online option then they probally would not have to wait.
    Actually I've seen during busy weekends when I worked in a gun store where using the online system it just about immediately came back delayed to to the backlog of checks going on due to the Expo Center gun show.
    Quote Originally Posted by tkd2006 View Post
    Someone posted about me assuming VAPATRIOT having a questionable history, please show me where i said that. My comment was directed to anyone that has to wait due to having been arrested at some point in their life.
    Here you go.

    Quote Originally Posted by tkd2006 View Post
    So you seem to think NICS would be better for all of Virginia or just you. Like i said do the research and get all the facts before you make a wish list. How can filling out a Va firearms form help if NICS has a problem. Well bottom line is if you are one of many people that get delayed because of something in your past Va will help you get the problem straight NICS will leave you denied or not approve the transaction at all and leave it up to the dealer to release the firearm.
    Last edited by nova; 08-27-2010 at 11:50 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    Actually I've seen during busy weekends when I worked in a gun store where using the online system it just about immediately came back delayed to to the backlog of checks going on due to the Expo Center gun show.


    Here you go.
    Well Nova it seems you have your answers vs really trying to get the facts. You state VSP delay people on purpose because of the backlog due to gun shows i say shennanigans. why would they want to delay someone please answer that.
    I also think if you read the comment i made where you accuse me saying VAPATRIOT has a shady past there is a big word in there you might not have noticed ->IF


    JMELVIN please show me where there are 2 checks being done. You cant its not 2 checks its 1 check being done by Virginia State Police. WHile its considered a NICS check they do it not NICS. Bottom line is its one check that so many people seem to think is 2. Like i said earlier people should get all the facts first.

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