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Thread: Walk a parade Saturday to support J.B. Van Hollen

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    Regular Member Fireball357's Avatar
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    Walk a parade Saturday to support J.B. Van Hollen

    Support J.B. Van Hollen; he supports us.

    Anybody from west central Wisc. that can and will walk in the Pepperfest Parade Saturday the 21st in No. Hudson with J.B. Van Hollen; please arrive before 10:30 to line up for the 11:00 start.

    Please PM me if you will be there FOR SURE so I can give J.B.’s people a count of how many J.B. tee shirts to have for walkers, and further directions.
    If you fail to:
    Know your rights;
    Exercise your Liberty;
    and Teach Freedom;
    You are sure to lose it all.

    Carry on; Carry Always

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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Can we OC? If so, I'll use a sick day. HaHa, my boss would never read this forum.

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    Regular Member Fireball357's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BROKENSPROKET View Post
    Can we OC? If so, I'll use a sick day. HaHa, my boss would never read this forum.
    Difficult yes; but not impossible.

    The assembly area is 1 – 1˝ blocks from an elementary school.

    It would be possible for those OC’ing to stage 3 blocks away and join in as they pass.
    That said; I don’t know the return route back to the beginning. It also makes it difficult for parking as it is limited in a residential area.

    I have someone checking with the Chief of Police this AM. I’ll report as soon as I get word.
    If you fail to:
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    Yeah I am sure JB wouldn't advocate you carrying in a school zone. I am still holding my support at this time as JB has not vocally stated that he is in support of Constitutional Carry.

    Once he does this the support he receives will be overwhelming to any opponent.
    Last edited by J.Gleason; 08-20-2010 at 10:16 AM.

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    Regular Member Fireball357's Avatar
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    In regard to OC in the Parade:

    The Chief of Police doesn’t have an issue with it; (he has granted permission for the color guard for their firearms) however,the Pepperfest organizers who hold the permit for the parade do, so we will have to go empty holster and educate the masses.

    I know from many personal conversations with J.B. that he supports Constitutional Carry but I will talk to him about sending that message.

    He is tentatively scheduled to attend the 2nd annual Open Carry picnic in Glenwood City on Sunday; that would be the perfect venue for a statement like that!
    If you fail to:
    Know your rights;
    Exercise your Liberty;
    and Teach Freedom;
    You are sure to lose it all.

    Carry on; Carry Always

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fireball357 View Post
    The Chief of Police doesn’t have an issue with it; (he has granted permission for the color guard for their firearms)
    Citation please. GFSZ is controlled by § 948.605.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    Citation please. GFSZ is controlled by § 948.605.
    Once again, Doug is right. Chief of police cannot give permission

    By an individual for use in a program approved by a school
    in the school zone;
    More fodder for 'our' lawsuit against the law. A parade with Veterans violates it unless they have permission of the school.

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    Campaign Veteran Flipper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    Once again, Doug is right. Chief of police cannot give permission



    A parade with Veterans violates it unless they have permission of the school.

    So the local school board would have to recognize the parade as a program of the school and give approval to each individual Vet in the honor guard carrying a rifle? & if it doesn't some anti-war nuts can demand the Vets be arrested for a state felony and a violation of federal law???

    Nice work Herb Kohl, aka Senator Nobody, who does nothing except author legislation infringing on Constitutional rights.
    Last edited by Flipper; 08-20-2010 at 01:47 PM.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flipper View Post
    So the local school board would have to recognize the parade as a program of the school and give approval to each individual Vet in the honor guard carrying a rifle? & if it doesn't some anti-war nuts can demand the Vets be arrested for a state felony and a violatioin of federal law???

    Nice work Herb Kohl, aka Senator Nobody, who does nothing except author legislation infringing on Constitutional rights.
    Dunno. Doesn't actually give the mechanics of it.

    The Chief would be able to stop his officers from arresting people violating the law, however, you still would be illegal.

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    Given the rather lackadaisical approach - taking his term's duration into consideration - RE constitutional carry, and the fist-pounding and tongue-lashings that had to be applied by former Sen. Dave Zien and others during the last PPA fight to even get him to wake up from a nap and even SPEAK about any carry issue, until civil suits got to be such an issue that it resulted in an advisory memo, that his office neglected to prosecute known civil-rights violations following said memo... pass.

    If only Republican on the ballot, ok, gets a vote. No marching for me, though.

    Separately from that rant I'd like to know under what purview would a parade permit-holder prohibit a legal act on a public street - which the local gendarmerie has already said they recognize as legal, certain GFSZ geographic constraints notwithstanding. If they don't have that purview tell them to pound sand; who're they gonna refer you to? Or is it simply that they would tell the AG that they are vetting the people he wants to march with him...?

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    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    Once again, Doug is right. Chief of police cannot give permission
    I think he probably could. Under the statute schools are not the sole authority to issue permission. The "political subdivision" (in other words, the city, village or township-- possibly the county, since it is a "political subdivision" and nothing in the statute excludes certain political subdivisions) may also issue a "license" (whatever that is) to carry in a school zone. It is quite possible that the chief or police, or even a clerk, could be delegated the authority to issue a license by the political subdivision.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WIG19 View Post
    which the local gendarmerie has already said they recognize as legal
    The police do not determine legality, certainly not the paramilitarized-police, the gendarmerie(!). Tyranny is the rule of men, from which we are protected only by the rule of law. The law abides only the law abiding.

    (Don't misuse an unfamiliar word. http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gendarmerie)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wisc. Stats. § 948.605(2)
    2. If the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so
    by a political subdivision of the state ... in which political subdivision the school zone is located, and the law of the political subdivision requires that, before an individual may obtain such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the political subdivision must verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
    Last edited by Doug Huffman; 08-20-2010 at 02:29 PM.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    I suppose you mean
    948.605(2)(b)2.
    2. If the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by a political subdivision of the state or bureau of alcohol, tobacco and firearms in which political subdivision the school zone is located, and the law of the political subdivision requires that, before an individual may obtain such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the political subdivision must verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
    It seems vague enough, who knows?

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    Quote Originally Posted by WIG19 View Post
    who're they gonna refer you to?
    The Department of Justice via the DA. Think of the shiite storm that DA Fox is swimming.

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    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    I suppose you mean

    It seems vague enough, who knows?
    Yes, that's what I mean. This statute contains much that is vague. What's clear is that "somebody" in the city of Hudson can issue a license, but who is that person is not clear, nor is the actual mechanics of doing it since I've yet to see a political subdivision in the state that has bothered to figure those details. So in theory and under the law it can be done, in practice, who knows?

    I would like to see everyone around the state apply for such licenses within their own political subdivision, citing the statute. It could prove amusing.

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    Well I sent off a quick inquiry to my local police asking who issues GFSZ licenses locally. I expect they will reply, "nobody." Which will force me to ask them how they avoid their off-duty officers who carry from committing a felony?

    It should be fun.
    Last edited by Shotgun; 08-20-2010 at 02:54 PM.

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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fireball357 View Post
    In regard to OC in the Parade:

    The Chief of Police doesn’t have an issue with it; (he has granted permission for the color guard for their firearms) however,the Pepperfest organizers who hold the permit for the parade do, so we will have to go empty holster and educate the masses.
    Can you please tell how the organizers could stop me from carrying if the Hudson PD won't make an arrest. Would they pull JB from the parade. I have never seen any LEO that were not City Police Officers at a city parade. They would have to call County or Sate Police in to make an arrest. Would they actually do that?

    I never should have asked cuz I have no idea where the schools in Hudson.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fireball357 View Post
    In regard to OC in the Parade:

    The Chief of Police doesn’t have an issue with it; (he has granted permission for the color guard for their firearms) however,the Pepperfest organizers who hold the permit for the parade do, so we will have to go empty holster and educate the masses.

    I know from many personal conversations with J.B. that he supports Constitutional Carry but I will talk to him about sending that message.

    He is tentatively scheduled to attend the 2nd annual Open Carry picnic in Glenwood City on Sunday; that would be the perfect venue for a statement like that!
    I can't do the walk, but he's got My SUPPORT.Any change of handing out fliers a long the way?

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    Regular Member Motofixxer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shotgun View Post
    Well I sent off a quick inquiry to my local police asking who issues GFSZ licenses locally. I expect they will reply, "nobody." Which will force me to ask them how they avoid their off-duty officers who carry from committing a felony?

    It should be fun.
    Yea I'm interested to know the outcome of this letter
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    Regular Member Motofixxer's Avatar
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    What we need to do is get video evidence of an off duty officer carrying on school property and demand for equal enforcement of the statute. I'm sure they just look the other way, and ignore the permission aspect. But they can't really when there are charges being filed. Then maybe there will be some light shed on the issue, and changes made.
    Wouldn't that make a headline, officer charged for carrying firearm in school zone, if convicted it's a felony, he loses his job cuz he can't carry anymore. That would be fantastic coverage for the overzealous law.
    I know for a fact that many officers don't even know where people can and can't carry, and many don't know they can't legally carry in a school zone. I have asked, they pretty much say, I don't worry much about it.
    So anyone have some video hiding???
    Last edited by Motofixxer; 08-22-2010 at 03:54 AM.
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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motofixxer View Post
    I know for a fact that many officers don't even know where people can and can't carry, and many don't know they can't legally carry in a school zone. I have asked, they pretty much say, I don't worry much about it.
    So anyone have some video hiding???
    I had an ex-leo challenge me on tjis very subject and I showed him the email between the deputy chief of police of Greenfield and someone at MPD stating exactly that the off duty LEO can't carry. Shut him up right away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Motofixxer View Post
    Yea I'm interested to know the outcome of this letter
    I'll keep you posted. I"m not expecting a speeding reply.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shotgun View Post
    Well I sent off a quick inquiry to my local police asking who issues GFSZ licenses locally. I expect they will reply, "nobody." Which will force me to ask them how they avoid their off-duty officers who carry from committing a felony?

    It should be fun.
    Off duty officers would be covered under LEOSA as long as they are ccw.

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    J. Gleason:

    You may be correct in your assumption but I think the question that would have to be answered in a court of law is: Are law enforcement officers that are off-duty and not acting in official capacity, still considered peace officers by definition or are they ordinary citizens? The GFSZ, trespassing, and vehicle carry statutes imply that when off duty they are ordinary citizens.

    From the LEOSA law:

    However, there are two types of state laws that are not overridden by the federal law, these being "the laws of any State that (1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or (2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park." This does not mean that LEOSA-qualified persons are prohibited from carrying concealed firearms in such areas, but only that they must obey whatever state laws apply on those two points. They are free to disregard all other state and local laws that govern the carrying of concealed firearms.

    The LEOSA overrides state and local laws, but not other federal laws. Thus, LEOSA-qualified individuals must continue to obey federal laws and agency policies that restrict the carrying of concealed firearms in certain federal buildings and lands.


    Note: Schools are state or local property. One would suspect that the GFZ would be considered included. Also the GFSZ is also federal law.
    Last edited by Captain Nemo; 08-22-2010 at 08:03 PM. Reason: added LEOSA data

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    The stupidity of the GFSZ statute is that an off duty law enforcement officer can not open carry a loaded firearm in a school zone (948.605(2)(b)(6)), nor can an off duty law enforcement officer discharge his firearm in a GFSZ(948.605(3)(b)(4)). So even if it was found under the LEOSA that an officer could carry a concealed weapon in a school zone technically he/she can't discharge it if off-duty.

    However, if a person is conducting a school sanctioned activity, such as firearms training, that person is allowed to possess a loaded uncased firearm (948.605(2)(b)(4)) and that person is allowed to discharge the firearm 948.605(3)(b)(3)).

    Go figure

    Stupid is as stupid does -- Forrest Gump

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