Walk a parade Saturday to support J.B. Van Hollen

Fireball357 · Aug 20, 2010

Support J.B. Van Hollen; he supports us.

Anybody from west central Wisc. that can and will walk in the Pepperfest Parade Saturday the 21st in No. Hudson with J.B. Van Hollen; please arrive before 10:30 to line up for the 11:00 start.

Please PM me if you will be there FOR SURE so I can give J.B.’s people a count of how many J.B. tee shirts to have for walkers, and further directions.

BROKENSPROKET · Aug 20, 2010

Can we OC? If so, I'll use a sick day. HaHa, my boss would never read this forum.

Fireball357 · Aug 20, 2010

BROKENSPROKET said:
Can we OC? If so, I'll use a sick day. HaHa, my boss would never read this forum.

Difficult yes; but not impossible.

The assembly area is 1 – 1½ blocks from an elementary school.

It would be possible for those OC’ing to stage 3 blocks away and join in as they pass.
That said; I don’t know the return route back to the beginning. It also makes it difficult for parking as it is limited in a residential area.

I have someone checking with the Chief of Police this AM. I’ll report as soon as I get word.

J.Gleason · Aug 20, 2010

Yeah I am sure JB wouldn't advocate you carrying in a school zone. I am still holding my support at this time as JB has not vocally stated that he is in support of Constitutional Carry.

Once he does this the support he receives will be overwhelming to any opponent.

Fireball357 · Aug 20, 2010

In regard to OC in the Parade:

The Chief of Police doesn’t have an issue with it; (he has granted permission for the color guard for their firearms) however,the Pepperfest organizers who hold the permit for the parade do, so we will have to go empty holster and educate the masses.

I know from many personal conversations with J.B. that he supports Constitutional Carry but I will talk to him about sending that message.

He is tentatively scheduled to attend the 2nd annual Open Carry picnic in Glenwood City on Sunday; that would be the perfect venue for a statement like that!

Doug Huffman · Aug 20, 2010

Fireball357 said:
The Chief of Police doesn’t have an issue with it; (he has granted permission for the color guard for their firearms)

Citation please. GFSZ is controlled by § 948.605.

paul@paul-fisher.com · Aug 20, 2010

Doug Huffman said:
Citation please. GFSZ is controlled by § 948.605.

Once again, Doug is right. Chief of police cannot give permission

By an individual for use in a program approved by a school
in the school zone;

More fodder for 'our' lawsuit against the law. A parade with Veterans violates it unless they have permission of the school.

Flipper · Aug 20, 2010

paul@paul-fisher.com said:
Once again, Doug is right. Chief of police cannot give permission

A parade with Veterans violates it unless they have permission of the school.

So the local school board would have to recognize the parade as a program of the school and give approval to each individual Vet in the honor guard carrying a rifle? & if it doesn't some anti-war nuts can demand the Vets be arrested for a state felony and a violation of federal law???

Nice work Herb Kohl, aka Senator Nobody, who does nothing except author legislation infringing on Constitutional rights.

paul@paul-fisher.com · Aug 20, 2010

Flipper said:
So the local school board would have to recognize the parade as a program of the school and give approval to each individual Vet in the honor guard carrying a rifle? & if it doesn't some anti-war nuts can demand the Vets be arrested for a state felony and a violatioin of federal law???

Nice work Herb Kohl, aka Senator Nobody, who does nothing except author legislation infringing on Constitutional rights.

Dunno. Doesn't actually give the mechanics of it.

The Chief would be able to stop his officers from arresting people violating the law, however, you still would be illegal.

WIG19 · Aug 20, 2010

Given the rather lackadaisical approach - taking his term's duration into consideration - RE constitutional carry, and the fist-pounding and tongue-lashings that had to be applied by former Sen. Dave Zien and others during the last PPA fight to even get him to wake up from a nap and even SPEAK about any carry issue, until civil suits got to be such an issue that it resulted in an advisory memo, that his office neglected to prosecute known civil-rights violations following said memo... pass.

If only Republican on the ballot, ok, gets a vote. No marching for me, though.

Separately from that rant I'd like to know under what purview would a parade permit-holder prohibit a legal act on a public street - which the local gendarmerie has already said they recognize as legal, certain GFSZ geographic constraints notwithstanding. If they don't have that purview tell them to pound sand; who're they gonna refer you to? Or is it simply that they would tell the AG that they are vetting the people he wants to march with him...?

Shotgun · Aug 20, 2010

paul@paul-fisher.com said:
Once again, Doug is right. Chief of police cannot give permission

I think he probably could. Under the statute schools are not the sole authority to issue permission. The "political subdivision" (in other words, the city, village or township-- possibly the county, since it is a "political subdivision" and nothing in the statute excludes certain political subdivisions) may also issue a "license" (whatever that is) to carry in a school zone. It is quite possible that the chief or police, or even a clerk, could be delegated the authority to issue a license by the political subdivision.

Doug Huffman · Aug 20, 2010

WIG19 said:
which the local gendarmerie has already said they recognize as legal

The police do not determine legality, certainly not the paramilitarized-police, the gendarmerie(!). Tyranny is the rule of men, from which we are protected only by the rule of law. The law abides only the law abiding.

(Don't misuse an unfamiliar word. http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gendarmerie)

Wisc. Stats. § 948.605(2) said:
2. If the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so
by a political subdivision of the state ... in which political subdivision the school zone is located, and the law of the political subdivision requires that, before an individual may obtain such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the political subdivision must verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

paul@paul-fisher.com · Aug 20, 2010

I suppose you mean

948.605(2)(b)2.
2. If the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by a political subdivision of the state or bureau of alcohol, tobacco and firearms in which political subdivision the school zone is located, and the law of the political subdivision requires that, before an individual may obtain such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the political subdivision must verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

It seems vague enough, who knows?

Doug Huffman · Aug 20, 2010

WIG19 said:
who're they gonna refer you to?

The Department of Justice via the DA. Think of the shiite storm that DA Fox is swimming.

Shotgun · Aug 20, 2010

paul@paul-fisher.com said:
I suppose you mean

It seems vague enough, who knows?

Yes, that's what I mean. This statute contains much that is vague. What's clear is that "somebody" in the city of Hudson can issue a license, but who is that person is not clear, nor is the actual mechanics of doing it since I've yet to see a political subdivision in the state that has bothered to figure those details. So in theory and under the law it can be done, in practice, who knows?

I would like to see everyone around the state apply for such licenses within their own political subdivision, citing the statute. It could prove amusing.

Shotgun · Aug 20, 2010

Well I sent off a quick inquiry to my local police asking who issues GFSZ licenses locally. I expect they will reply, "nobody." Which will force me to ask them how they avoid their off-duty officers who carry from committing a felony?

It should be fun.

BROKENSPROKET · Aug 20, 2010

Fireball357 said:
In regard to OC in the Parade:

The Chief of Police doesn’t have an issue with it; (he has granted permission for the color guard for their firearms) however,the Pepperfest organizers who hold the permit for the parade do, so we will have to go empty holster and educate the masses.

Can you please tell how the organizers could stop me from carrying if the Hudson PD won't make an arrest. Would they pull JB from the parade. I have never seen any LEO that were not City Police Officers at a city parade. They would have to call County or Sate Police in to make an arrest. Would they actually do that?

I never should have asked cuz I have no idea where the schools in Hudson.

range rat · Aug 20, 2010

Fireball357 said:
In regard to OC in the Parade:

The Chief of Police doesn’t have an issue with it; (he has granted permission for the color guard for their firearms) however,the Pepperfest organizers who hold the permit for the parade do, so we will have to go empty holster and educate the masses.

I know from many personal conversations with J.B. that he supports Constitutional Carry but I will talk to him about sending that message.

He is tentatively scheduled to attend the 2nd annual Open Carry picnic in Glenwood City on Sunday; that would be the perfect venue for a statement like that!

I can't do the walk, but he's got My SUPPORT.Any change of handing out fliers a long the way?

Motofixxer · Aug 22, 2010

Shotgun said:
Well I sent off a quick inquiry to my local police asking who issues GFSZ licenses locally. I expect they will reply, "nobody." Which will force me to ask them how they avoid their off-duty officers who carry from committing a felony?

It should be fun.

Yea I'm interested to know the outcome of this letter

Motofixxer · Aug 22, 2010

What we need to do is get video evidence of an off duty officer carrying on school property and demand for equal enforcement of the statute. I'm sure they just look the other way, and ignore the permission aspect. But they can't really when there are charges being filed. Then maybe there will be some light shed on the issue, and changes made.
Wouldn't that make a headline, officer charged for carrying firearm in school zone, if convicted it's a felony, he loses his job cuz he can't carry anymore. That would be fantastic coverage for the overzealous law.
I know for a fact that many officers don't even know where people can and can't carry, and many don't know they can't legally carry in a school zone. I have asked, they pretty much say, I don't worry much about it.
So anyone have some video hiding???

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