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Thread: Question about OC..

  1. #1
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    Question about OC..

    While I haven't OC'ed yet anywhere but the range, my house and while camping on friends property.

    I CC every day. I can easily slip my hand in my pocket and put my hand on my gun if I want to or feel un-comfortable. With out anybody knowing..


    What happens if I I feel threatened and put my hand on my pistol while I am open carrying?

  2. #2
    Regular Member Yooper's Avatar
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    I wouldn't do it unless a physical attack is imminent. A bunch of punks yelling and screaming at you, in my opinion, doesn't warrant (legally) putting your hand on your gun. Now, if they're approaching you, and you've told them to leave you alone, that's a different story.

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    You have to be careful here, although you aren't waving it around, you may be considered to be displaying it. Then again, its your word against theirs. You have a CPL, they are a bunch of thugs. Don't say too much, don't convict yourself.

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    Thank You for the answers. I'm just trying to learn the rules on how to act and such.

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    on a separate but related note: I often place my elbow on top of my pistol when it is in the holster. Good for retention, and also makes a good arm rest.

    As a general rule, I would not grip my pistol while in public unless i was planning to use it.

    I do agree that being able to put your hand on your gun without anybody noticing is one advantage of CC in a jacket pocket. I have a .38 special i have cc'd in the pocket of my coat during the winter.
    Last edited by lapeer20m; 08-20-2010 at 11:11 PM.
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    [QUOTE=lapeer20m;1336548]
    As a general rule, I would not grip my pistol while in public unless i was planning to use it.
    QUOTE]

    I agree wholeheartedly with this statement. this is one reason I have decided to stay with a leg drop holster. My hand naturally hangs in line with the grip, and if I feel uneasy, my hand is often resting against the gun.

    Well, if you want to learn, you have come to the right place Welcome aboard.

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    I do the same thing when I pocket carry. If I'm at the gas station and I feel even slightly uneasy about my security, my hand will casually go into my right pocket and I have a grip with no one knowing. If nothing else, it makes me feel safer. But with OC, you really can't do that without appearing threatening yourself. So I would advise against it.

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    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lapeer20m View Post
    I often place my elbow on top of my pistol when it is in the holster. Good for retention, and also makes a good arm rest.
    I do the same thing.

  9. #9
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrEarp View Post
    What happens if I feel threatened and put my hand on my pistol while I am open carrying?
    Never grip your pistol in public unless you imminently fear for the life of yourself or another innocent person. If you feel threatened to that degree, then you are ok to grip your weapon, because it is coming out and you are going to use it to stop the imminent threat.

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    I don't open carry yet but as soon as I buy a firearm I will, just wanted to know the experience just oc people had while getting pulled over in a vehicle and having there firearm stored in legal manner, and wat do u say to the officer if ask y do u have a firearm in the vehicle?

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    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MILK View Post
    I don't open carry yet but as soon as I buy a firearm I will, just wanted to know the experience just oc people had while getting pulled over in a vehicle and having there firearm stored in legal manner, and wat do u say to the officer if ask y do u have a firearm in the vehicle?
    1) Nothing

    2) As little as possible

    3) Less than as little as possible

    4) I do not wish to discuss the contents of my vehicle

    5) How is that pertinent?

    If you reply "yes", it can lead to more fishing. Many officers know when you're being honest, and treat you accordingly. However, if the officer has a tendency toward disrespect of the public, it can result in a ticket. As we all know, that's a bunch of crap, but logic doesn't stop a rogue officer. How you react is ultimately up to you.
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    in a loud and commanding voice yell for them to stop what ever it is they are doing. Draw attention to yourself and the situation. The more witness' you have the better. If at all possible, call 911. leave the phone on speaker while you command them to STOP, BACK AWAY" "LAY DOWN NOW" etc.
    The 911 call will be recorded, if you yell your commands, the tape will hear them. It will help you(prove defense) if you do have to use the firearm.

    Tell the operator what is happening, step by step.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MILK View Post
    I don't open carry yet but as soon as I buy a firearm I will, just wanted to know the experience just oc people had while getting pulled over in a vehicle and having there firearm stored in legal manner, and what do u say to the officer if ask y do u have a firearm in the vehicle?
    If an officer has the legal authority to search your vehicle, or look in your trunk, they wouldn't be asking permission. They ask permission from people knowing that most people assume they have to allow the cops look in their trunk and the citizen will agree to the search.

    The correct thing to say if you do not want an officer looking inside your trunk is: "I do not consent to any searches or seizures"

    however.....how you treat an officer may depend on why you were stopped. For instance, if I were doing something wrong, ie 70 in a 55, I would be much more inclined to allow an officer to search my vehicle. An officer has the discretion to enforce or not enforce laws. Letting him search may get you out of a ticket, or at least a reduced ticket. Refusing the search will almost certainly net you a ticket for 15 over.

    If you were stopped unjustly: ie: they have information that you have a gun stored in your trunk. Then it is a great time for wash rinse repeat.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...H-RINSE-REPEAT

    if you have not seen them, these are great video's! (you can watch them for free on youtube, but i cannot get the links at work)

    http://flexyourrights.org/
    Last edited by lapeer20m; 08-22-2010 at 05:11 PM.
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  14. #14
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iopencarry View Post
    in a loud and commanding voice yell for them to stop what ever it is they are doing. Draw attention to yourself and the situation. The more witness' you have the better. If at all possible, call 911. leave the phone on speaker while you command them to STOP, BACK AWAY" "LAY DOWN NOW" etc.
    The 911 call will be recorded, if you yell your commands, the tape will hear them. It will help you(prove defense) if you do have to use the firearm.

    Tell the operator what is happening, step by step.

    troll
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    not likely a troll,

    Been OCing in CA for over 2 yrs.

    why do you think this advice came from a troll? it is good advice and will keep you out of jail if/when you have to use your gun.

    The last thing you want is to have a LEO come up on you while you have a gun in your hand pointed at the bad guy, or after shooting the bad guy, and habe that LEO shoot you. A simple phone call to 911 will help.

  16. #16
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    If you have a CPL there is no issue, except to disclose immediately. If no CPL, then there is no reason to disclose.
    If asked the question of "any guns, drugs, dead bodies, hand grenades in the car tonight sir?" then the best response is to simply say, "There is nothing illegal in the vehicle sir/ma'am." The response will be, "Then you don't mind if I take a look?" You at this time say, "I do not consent to any searches." At which point they will usually ask why not, To which, you do not have to give a reason, but if you must reply, tell them that you don't see the relevance, and that you value your privacy. Get the subject back on the traffic issue that they stopped you for as soon as possible. Attitude body language nerve control, and facial expressions play an important role in these situations.

    Also, know these two laws in particular inside and out. Especially the lawful purpose. Print them out, and take them with you if you do not have a CPL.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%2...e=mcl-750-234d

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%2...e=mcl-750-231a


    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%2...aspx?page=home

    Its not a comfortable thing to deny a search, but it could get worse. The 4th amendment is just as worth protecting as the second.

  17. #17
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MILK View Post
    I don't open carry yet but as soon as I buy a firearm I will, just wanted to know the experience just oc people had while getting pulled over in a vehicle and having there firearm stored in legal manner, and wat do u say to the officer if ask y do u have a firearm in the vehicle?
    Quote Originally Posted by Iopencarry View Post
    in a loud and commanding voice yell for them to stop what ever it is they are doing. Draw attention to yourself and the situation. The more witness' you have the better. If at all possible, call 911. leave the phone on speaker while you command them to STOP, BACK AWAY" "LAY DOWN NOW" etc.
    The 911 call will be recorded, if you yell your commands, the tape will hear them. It will help you(prove defense) if you do have to use the firearm.

    Tell the operator what is happening, step by step.
    To me it looked like you were answering this question. So yeah if you did this with a LEO, or advocate OCers to do so yes you are a troll. LOL, if this is not the question you were answering maybe we have a misunderstanding...
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
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  18. #18
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    the OP asked this in his first post, " What happens if I I feel threatened and put my hand on my pistol while I am open carrying?"

    I was replying to this question.

    my advice still holds.

    IF you feel you need to pull your gun, call 911 and get them coming first(if possible). In that type of situation the LEO's will be your best friend. and the recorder the best witness.

  19. #19
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iopencarry View Post
    the OP asked this in his first post, " What happens if I I feel threatened and put my hand on my pistol while I am open carrying?"

    I was replying to this question.

    my advice still holds.

    IF you feel you need to pull your gun, call 911 and get them coming first(if possible). In that type of situation the LEO's will be your best friend. and the recorder the best witness.
    Thats cool. The quote button may work better for you than, than the reply button. The thread had already turned, and someone had already asked a new question, and people were answering that one. So if you were going back to the OP (which is fine, maybe even better to stay on topic) hitting the quote button may work better, and not cause confusion, than just hitting reply.
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  20. #20
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Just a suggestion for those from other states that post in the MI sub forum. Remember laws are different in every state so what you may do in CA you may or may not do in MI.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    The difference with OC vs CC.

    With CC, the perpetrator does NOT know you're armed. So the only way to establish that you're armed and can/will respond with lethal force if required, is to either draw your weapon, or to push your concealment aside revealing your holstered firearm.

    With OC, it is already known that you're armed. If the aggressor has obviously noticed this, it is for sure that either he or she has no regard for her own life / others, or he / she SERIOUSLY means you harm and does not care what harm befalls of him / herself.

    It's a situational basis. If you feel as though your life is threatened, by all means, unholster your pistol, and prepare for the worst.

    -Richard-

  22. #22
    Regular Member sprinklerguy28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MILK View Post
    I don't open carry yet but as soon as I buy a firearm I will, just wanted to know the experience just oc people had while getting pulled over in a vehicle and having there firearm stored in legal manner, and wat do u say to the officer if ask y do u have a firearm in the vehicle?
    If the firearm is secured and is being transported you have no duty to disclose, no matter if you do or do not have a CPL.

  23. #23
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinklerguy28 View Post
    If the firearm is secured and is being transported you have no duty to disclose, no matter if you do or do not have a CPL.
    The only time that I've ever been asked is the one time I was pulled over after I received my CPL, which required I disclose. He asked where it was and where my wallet was. He never asked to see either the firearms or the CPL.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

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  24. #24
    Regular Member hopnpop's Avatar
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    When I OC, and my SA tells me that something's off, I just keep my hand very close to it... often times partially in my pocket. However, after practicing my draw a million times, I haven't noticed any percievable difference in the speed of my draw by altering where my draw hand starts. Keep in mind, too, that I'm drawing from a retention holster. Using a different type of holster may alter the speed of the draw.
    No one has ever walked away from a gunfight complaining that he brought too much ammo.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    I use and askins avenger style holster where it rides high under my arm so it's is in the perfect position for a forearm rest. If you watch many police officers also do this placing their forearm on the weapon. It is not drawing nor grabbing the gun but it makes it far easier to draw if all goes bad. But in saying all that when I feel uncomfortable I make distance between me and that person. Most police officers do the same thing if they feel a threat could be ready to jump off. I also position myself on their strong side where I can see any attempt at a draw giving me ample time to respond. But distancing oneself from potential idiots is the best policy. Also keeping your strong side away from their eyesight is an advantage. I turn sideways to a certain degree it makes me a smaller target and they can not see my hand and where it is at. There is never a fool proof method and nothing goes by the books, it takes a keen eye to develop a strategy in each case.




    Quote Originally Posted by MrEarp View Post
    While I haven't OC'ed yet anywhere but the range, my house and while camping on friends property.

    I CC every day. I can easily slip my hand in my pocket and put my hand on my gun if I want to or feel un-comfortable. With out anybody knowing..


    What happens if I I feel threatened and put my hand on my pistol while I am open carrying?
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

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