gogodawgs
Campaign Veteran
Take cover, call 911, remove firearm from holster, create cover and try to reason with the suspect with the gun to another women's head until police arrive.
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Weapon Discharge Question
- Thread starter Wolfebane
- Start date
Take cover, call 911, remove firearm from holster, create cover and try to reason with the suspect with the gun to another women's head until police arrive.
Hammer
Regular Member
Really? There is no such thing as an accident?
I would agree that most unintended firearms discharges are negligent, not accidental.
BUT- there have been some good court cases RE: whether there is such a thing as an accident.
The ball falls on the side that there IS such a thing.
If there can be an accident, there can be an accidental discharge.
The term is simply too loosely used.....
Hammer
Regular Member
I took one 6 weeks ago, right between the eyes. It hurt- I bled- I'm still here.
'Nuff said.
Metalhead47
Regular Member
devildoc5
Regular Member
actually if you want to get technical there is not officially any such thing as an accident. When I went through EMT school it was called an MVA Motor Vehicle Accident, now it is an MVC Motor Vehicle Collision. It was once called an Accidental Discharge, now it is a Negligent Discharge.
The reasoning behind this is that if it was an accident there is no one to place the blame on. However as anyone who has been involved in a sticky situation can attest to there can ALWAYS be a way to blame one party or the other, or blame one piece of equipment or another.
That is why there is not an accident in common police and legal vernacular.
The reasoning behind this is that if it was an accident there is no one to place the blame on. However as anyone who has been involved in a sticky situation can attest to there can ALWAYS be a way to blame one party or the other, or blame one piece of equipment or another.
That is why there is not an accident in common police and legal vernacular.
Hammer
Regular Member
actually if you want to get technical there is not officially any such thing as an accident. When I went through EMT school it was called an MVA Motor Vehicle Accident, now it is an MVC Motor Vehicle Collision. It was once called an Accidental Discharge, now it is a Negligent Discharge.
The reasoning behind this is that if it was an accident there is no one to place the blame on. However as anyone who has been involved in a sticky situation can attest to there can ALWAYS be a way to blame one party or the other, or blame one piece of equipment or another.
That is why there is not an accident in common police and legal vernacular.
Let's start here:
you could not pick more biased and uninformed people groups to determine whether or not there is such a thing as an accident. A cop needs someone to blame. If there is no one to blame, cop is out of a job. If there is any doubt about how accurate a cop is when placing blame, read a few accounts here in the WA forum. It will enlighten you right now.
A lawyer also needs someone to blame to keep an income comin'
No blame- no suit.
No blame- no court case.
No blame- no money.
The way to tell who's most to blame is by who has the better attorney. Justice is served.
And you're telling me that EMTs think there is no such thing as an accident? Why do you go out to MVAs? Or call them MVCs, I don't care, but if there's no accident, there's no injury, and you don't need to go on the call....
Or would there be no job then....
Of course there are accidents.
America has just bought into the blame game until there "must" be SOMEONE to blame for every occurrence in life.
Tell me who's to blame when
An infant dies of SIDS
A camper dies in a flash flood.
An old granny dies of electrocution when lightening hits her house.
Insurance companies pay out when there's an accident. In most policies, they don't pay if there's a deliberate act or many times if there's negligence. If there's no such thing as an accident, why do they pay out at all? Because there are accidents....
Make sure you tell all your patients at the next MVC that it didn't happen by accident, it was a deliberate act or negligence.
And last, ADs have not been replaced by NDs. There are simply 2 categories now.
Hammer
Regular Member
LOL and just how did that happen??
Well, it wasn't exactly a falling slug, like you were talking about. It was a ricochet. I posted a thread about it back when it happened:
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?78728-Well-I-got-shot-today....
Trigger Dr
Regular Member
Was that an accidental or negligent richocet?
I say................... ACCIDENT!
I say................... ACCIDENT!
Metalhead47
Regular Member
NEGLIGENT! There's always someone to blame! Ol' Murrey down in the jacketing room wasn't paying attention when he was applying the glue for that jacket that came off & caused the ricochet!
devildoc5
Regular Member
Ok I apologize in advance but you asked for it
Infant - God, Devil, Parents, Doctor, DISEASE/SYNDROME
Flood - Water (specifically failure to observe proper safety procedures relating to rainy weather and lack of proper flood banks/levys)
Granny - Weather (specifically lack of installation of lightening rod)
I was just giving you what I have experienced. I agree that the US in general is all about assigning blame to everyone/thing. There can be many reasons for an MVC to occur for example: Blown tire, Slamming on brakes, doing makeup while driving, DUI, etc ad nauseaum... Not a single on of these are accidents. They are directly attributed to either an action or a lack of action.
Same with an ND in the most active shooting "target team" I know about (The US Armed Forces) there is no such thing as an AD anymore. For the EXACT same reason I pointed out above, everything can be attributed to an action or lack of action. Round fired cause someone pulled the trigger usually....
Insurance companies do not pay for accidents, they pay based on coverages. They pay you based on damages occuring from whatever happened. They also have a list of thigns they DO NOT pay for, such as negligence and acts of God (isnt this everything????)
Just because there is not an ACCIDENT does not mean there is not an INCIDENT. Everyone can be injured for some reason. Even a heart attack is not an accident, it has an attributable cause of something or another being wrong with the heart. What I was stating is that in the current medical field if an EMT writes on their paperwork "MVA" or "accident" they are automatically placing themselves in a medically liable position. MVA is not recognized by NREMT nor PHTLS nor even TCCC.
Hammer
Regular Member
I have clearly engaged in a battle of wits with an unarmed man.
Please go on believing what you've been believing. I'll simply count you part of the problem, not any of the solution.
Please go on believing what you've been believing. I'll simply count you part of the problem, not any of the solution.
Ok I apologize in advance but you asked for it
Infant - God, Devil, Parents, Doctor, DISEASE/SYNDROME
Flood - Water (specifically failure to observe proper safety procedures relating to rainy weather and lack of proper flood banks/levys)
Granny - Weather (specifically lack of installation of lightening rod)
I was just giving you what I have experienced. I agree that the US in general is all about assigning blame to everyone/thing. There can be many reasons for an MVC to occur for example: Blown tire, Slamming on brakes, doing makeup while driving, DUI, etc ad nauseaum... Not a single on of these are accidents. They are directly attributed to either an action or a lack of action.
Same with an ND in the most active shooting "target team" I know about (The US Armed Forces) there is no such thing as an AD anymore. For the EXACT same reason I pointed out above, everything can be attributed to an action or lack of action. Round fired cause someone pulled the trigger usually....
Insurance companies do not pay for accidents, they pay based on coverages. They pay you based on damages occuring from whatever happened. They also have a list of thigns they DO NOT pay for, such as negligence and acts of God (isnt this everything????)
Just because there is not an ACCIDENT does not mean there is not an INCIDENT. Everyone can be injured for some reason. Even a heart attack is not an accident, it has an attributable cause of something or another being wrong with the heart. What I was stating is that in the current medical field if an EMT writes on their paperwork "MVA" or "accident" they are automatically placing themselves in a medically liable position. MVA is not recognized by NREMT nor PHTLS nor even TCCC.
devildoc5
Regular Member
really???? Wow and what exactly is your medical and LEO background? It appears to be the other way around as you are the one who is talking out of his a$$ here.
Dont believe me? Why not try some research and prove me wrong? I dare you to. You wont be able to, at least not in the situations I have outlined above.
Every comment I have made has been a resonable well thought out EXPERIENCE based response to your comments. You are the one who has CONTINUALLY downgraded to "I'm better than you" talk and seem to have no coherent arguement other then that you are right....
And exactly what kind of a phucking problem are you talking about here? The one where a guy has experience and knowledge about something and is not BLINDED by his own agenda? The one who can see that there is a truth behind everything? What happens when a kid breaks a lamp and says it was an acciednt? Does that make it all better? Hell no it doesn't! Perhaps you are the problem because you refuse to change even when faced with OVERWHELMING evidence to the contrary....
Dont believe me? Why not try some research and prove me wrong? I dare you to. You wont be able to, at least not in the situations I have outlined above.
Every comment I have made has been a resonable well thought out EXPERIENCE based response to your comments. You are the one who has CONTINUALLY downgraded to "I'm better than you" talk and seem to have no coherent arguement other then that you are right....
And exactly what kind of a phucking problem are you talking about here? The one where a guy has experience and knowledge about something and is not BLINDED by his own agenda? The one who can see that there is a truth behind everything? What happens when a kid breaks a lamp and says it was an acciednt? Does that make it all better? Hell no it doesn't! Perhaps you are the problem because you refuse to change even when faced with OVERWHELMING evidence to the contrary....
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gogodawgs
Campaign Veteran
Hammer
Regular Member
I rest my case. You make it for me.
I'm not getting into a third grade p!$$ing match with you.
Look me up when the word accident is removed from the dictionary and I'll issue a sincere apology.
Until then, as far as I'm concerned, there is such a thing as an accident. Those would be the unfortunate occurrences that are not done deliberately.
So, wordcraft it all you want. It's really quite simple until you buy into the world's re-definition that uses the blame game as its foundation.
This is quite enough of this thread for me.
I'm not getting into a third grade p!$$ing match with you.
Look me up when the word accident is removed from the dictionary and I'll issue a sincere apology.
Until then, as far as I'm concerned, there is such a thing as an accident. Those would be the unfortunate occurrences that are not done deliberately.
So, wordcraft it all you want. It's really quite simple until you buy into the world's re-definition that uses the blame game as its foundation.
This is quite enough of this thread for me.
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Metalhead47
Regular Member
Guys, guys, C'MON!! Step back, take a breath, count to 10, whatever. Let's keep it civil. No need to go fighting like cats over a tangent that's as irrelevant as it is off topic! Chill out or I'ma pull this forum over right now and smack BOTH y'all upside the head!
<---- gogo I'm officially stealing that this time!
<---- gogo I'm officially stealing that this time!devildoc5
Regular Member
It's amazing some of the closeminded arrogantness that goes on around here....
gogodawgs
Campaign Veteran
Hammer
Regular Member
Now that right there is funny, I don't care who ya are!
But, izzit a pot or a kettle?
Cause if it's a pot, that'd be an accident.
But if it's a kettle, well, it'd be deliberate, and as such an INcident.