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Thread: Hopitals and malls.

  1. #1
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    Question Hopitals and malls.

    Can you bring weapons (GUNS) on the their property? Will a permit to carry allowed entry? Need your comments. Thanks.

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    Have you actually tried reading the Connecticut General Statutes? I hear they're very informative on matters of law.

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    I do know that the Westfield Shopping Town Malls and Buckland Hills Mall don't allow firearms. They have the rule listed in fine print in a few banners throughout the mall. Nothing actually listed on any of the doors for us to see.

    As for hospitals, I haven't seen anything saying that firearms are outright banned, but after asking both Hartford Hospital and Bridgeport Hospital they both stated that firearms aren't allowed. However, if you carry concealed, what they see can't hurt.

    btw...I'm an open carry guy, just saying.

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    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    I'd forget calling and asking. Just see if you see any posted signage on the property.

    If you just outright ask, you might just get someone that is anti-gun and not really speaking for the organization.

    Think about Rich's post about Cabellas is a good example. One person at the store says it's an issue, but they clearly have a policy that it's OK.

    I'm just sayin'......

    Jonathan

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KIX View Post
    I'd forget calling and asking. Just see if you see any posted signage on the property.

    If you just outright ask, you might just get someone that is anti-gun and not really speaking for the organization.

    Think about Rich's post about Cabellas is a good example. One person at the store says it's an issue, but they clearly have a policy that it's OK.
    I agree. Asking is only asking for trouble. Just go about your business. Know the state laws, and carry in confidence.

    If it isn't posted, and there is no statute, there is no problem.

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    This is when open carry gets you in trouble. because they see it. don't get me wrong i like O.C. you have to look for SIGNS and NO PRINTING SHOWING in theses places. you have pick your form of carrying some concealment and some openly its a two way street. thank you guys for your comments. CARRY ON ANY WHICH WAY YOU WANT!

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    I don't think hospitals can out right ban firearms because if you get into a bad car accident while open carrying and get sent in a ambulance they cant stop you at the door bleeding to death from injuries of the car accident

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    Neither of the two practices are Illegal, however, both places do Constitute Private Property, unless; in the Case of Hospitals, the Hospital(s) in question happen to be Publicly-owned.

    However..., if you make a pracitce of asking..., then, [they] might make a pracitce of placing signs, or worse yet, confronting you asking you to leave or threating Law Enforcement Intervention.
    Last edited by aadvark; 08-22-2010 at 03:33 PM.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.EastHartford. View Post
    This is when open carry gets you in trouble. because they see it. don't get me wrong i like O.C. you have to look for SIGNS and NO PRINTING SHOWING in theses places. you have pick your form of carrying some concealment and some openly its a two way street. thank you guys for your comments. CARRY ON ANY WHICH WAY YOU WANT!
    I have been all over the state to many different types of places open carrying and you all know of my only issues which represent a very good success rate. Open carrying is not what will get you in trouble. Stupid and ignorant people who deem themselves in a position of authority when they don't understand the basic laws of the state will get you in trouble.

    Yes, you take on more responsibility and visibility when you open carry, but you should be assuming that when you conceal as well. I believe concealed carry only gives us a false sense of confidence anyway. All open carrying is doing is being a bit more honest and open about the fact that you are 'one of those people' who carry a firearm.

    I follow your sentiments to encourage people to carry however they want, but be realistic, open carry is not the problem. Ignorant people who are willing to break the law instead of admitting wrong doing and their own ignorance are the problem.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbegin87 View Post
    I don't think hospitals can out right ban firearms because if you get into a bad car accident while open carrying and get sent in a ambulance they cant stop you at the door bleeding to death from injuries of the car accident
    In my experiences, the paramedics will call the police over who will disarm you before you enter the ambulance, along with all of your other personal property usually. I am surprised you think they would transport you to the hospital with your firearm intact.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aadvark View Post
    However..., if you make a pracitce of asking..., then, [they] might make a pracitce of placing signs, or worse yet, confronting you asking you to leave or threating Law Enforcement Intervention.
    Agreed, if there is nothing that makes it outright illegal to begin with, just carry how you normally would in regular life. No further discussion is needed. That is how these things become common place rather than banned.

    The vast majority of place with 'no guns' signs did not become that way because they had a problem with people open carrying or concealed carrying. They became that way because the ignorant property owners assume that only criminals carry firearms and that putting a magic sign up will somehow stop them from being criminals on their property.

    Very wrong on both accounts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    In my experiences, the paramedics will call the police over who will disarm you before you enter the ambulance, along with all of your other personal property usually. I am surprised you think they would transport you to the hospital with your firearm intact.
    Not necessarily.

    When I was an EMT (we're talking over two decades ago!), I would transport with the firearm. My argument is this.... how does the person I'm transporting know where is firearm is? Though, it's never been a totally unconscious person.

    My logic is, he'll assign someone to take care of his firearm when he gets there.

    For the record, we didn't take ANY of their belongings - that was the job of the Hospital.

    And we're talking Hartford here....

    Jonathan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    The vast majority of place with 'no guns' signs did not become that way because they had a problem with people open carrying or concealed carrying. They became that way because the ignorant property owners assume that only criminals carry firearms and that putting a magic sign up will somehow stop them from being criminals on their property.

    Very wrong on both accounts.
    Kinda like a certain beer distributorship in Manchester......

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    Quote Originally Posted by KIX View Post
    When I was an EMT (we're talking over two decades ago!), I would transport with the firearm. My argument is this.... how does the person I'm transporting know where is firearm is? Though, it's never been a totally unconscious person.
    In most bad accidents I have seen all personal effects are removed from the person, including clothes. To get the clothes off, they are going to have to remove the belt and most likely the holster. At that point, they have to give the firearm to someone. That will most likely be the police.

    Not only that, but there is no way for the paramedics to know whether or not the patient is legally in possession of the firearm or whether the firearm may be evidence in what happened. They certainly would not want the liability involved in it either. I have never heard of a paramedic knowingly transporting a patient to the hospital with a firearm without at least notifying police. And I cannot imagine an officer who would not take control of the firearm until that patient was released or could send someone to pick it up.

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    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    In my case, the person was conscious and did have their permit.

    That was all I needed.

    The officers didn't even know. I was fine that he was legal and that was that.

    "he" being on the 3 times I can recall doing this (gotta remember...thousands of calls!).

    If he was unconscious..... I'd then probably go to the cop, but my overall first responsibility is to make sure he's OK.

    Jonathan

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    I posted a very informative thread on Malls in CT a while back. A quick search for "mall" in this forum turned it up:
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...highlight=mall

    It explains the mall policies I've actually seen in writing (or others have seen) and how you can go about looking for the mall policies.

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    Thumbs up

    Thanks gluegun.

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    Reading Lenny's comments in that thread echoes a post I had here a week or two ago.

    An open carry event in New Britain!!!!

    Would be interesting if there were a few members, open carrying with CCDL shirts and carrying leaflets and letting people know about this INSANE ordinance.

    Jonathan

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    Cool

    You guys name the day. the time. and i will be there in NEW BRITAIN to O.C and i will put on my CCDL shirt and cap and don't forget NEW LONDON also. CARRY ON!
    Last edited by Alex.EastHartford.; 08-24-2010 at 11:41 AM.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KIX View Post
    Would be interesting if there were a few members, open carrying with CCDL shirts and carrying leaflets and letting people know about this INSANE ordinance.
    a) Why? Worst case, the ordinance makes you open carry. I don't think anyone has been cited for a violation of this ordinance, so it is pretty useless.

    b) Bringing further attention to this ordinance may result in the opposite of what we want occurring. What if they just modify the ordinance to say "No carrying of firearms" which is likely what they meant from the start?

  21. #21
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    a) Why? Worst case, the ordinance makes you open carry. I don't think anyone has been cited for a violation of this ordinance, so it is pretty useless.

    b) Bringing further attention to this ordinance may result in the opposite of what we want occurring. What if they just modify the ordinance to say "No carrying of firearms" which is likely what they meant from the start?
    Don't think anyone has been cited..... one reason, most think there is no ordinance and conceal carry in New Britain, as I'm finding out more and more the past few weeks. Goes to what we said about when concealed, there is usually no incident. However, in this case, that is indeed breaking the law.

    Argument B, really doesn't have merit IMHO.

    That is the EXACT same thing as open carry in general in the state. Your case, Hoffmans case, bringing more attention to it can only cause legislation to end open carry in the state, right?

    Just playing the devils advocate here, but the same can be said whether you open carry in NB or the state.

    Jonathan

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KIX View Post
    Don't think anyone has been cited..... one reason, most think there is no ordinance and conceal carry in New Britain, as I'm finding out more and more the past few weeks. Goes to what we said about when concealed, there is usually no incident. However, in this case, that is indeed breaking the law.

    Argument B, really doesn't have merit IMHO.

    That is the EXACT same thing as open carry in general in the state. Your case, Hoffmans case, bringing more attention to it can only cause legislation to end open carry in the state, right?

    Just playing the devils advocate here, but the same can be said whether you open carry in NB or the state.

    Jonathan
    The problem is that New Britain's ordinance is not something that is enforceable or realistic. Even most of the police there are unaware of it. So to 'bring attention' to it is to possibly harm those in the community who are unaware of it. That would be the opposite of what I would want.

    This is beside the point that in general open carry events are not very good or successful. The real battles in open carry come simply by carrying on your everyday life while open carrying.

    I understand your points, but I don't think this is a place or cause anyone should be investing any time. The only way anyone will positively impact that ordinance is if someone is cited for it, they can challenge it. Anything else carries far too many risks in my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    The problem is that New Britain's ordinance is not something that is enforceable or realistic. Even most of the police there are unaware of it. So to 'bring attention' to it is to possibly harm those in the community who are unaware of it. That would be the opposite of what I would want.
    Not much different from open carry being legal. Until recently none of them really knew at all all over this state so its not really that different!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tazman2 View Post
    Not much different from open carry being legal. Until recently none of them really knew at all all over this state so its not really that different!
    It is different in the fact that for open carry we want to make sure everyone understands it as it exists. For the NB ordinance, we accomplish nothing by bringing it into the public light.

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    Unhappy

    Speaking on open carry. When i go out to the stores or other places i look around to see who is o.c., but it feels like I am the only one doing so? I have not run into or seen anyone open carrying. for a state that talks about o.c. i don't see gun owners open carrying? maybe I am blind.

    I know its a choice, but it would be nice to see more open carry citizens. I also visited other towns and still have not see any open carryers'. COME ON PEOPLE! CARRY ON!

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