OC Advocate Arrested

ARADCOM · Aug 21, 2010

What??

Orphan said:
If the reporting is accurate (big If) Mr Visser is not an OC advocate he is a crimminal and needs to spend some time in jail and lose his ability to own firearms forever.

ARADCOM thanks a lot for the title of your post, your post title does as much harm to OC as Mr Visser just did. You could have used a lot of things for a title except for "OC advocate Arrested". Simply reporting the arrest and supplying a link would have been great.

No amount of training can repair a lack of common sense, you probably believe hard core criminals can be rehabilitated too, there are some things you just cant fix.

That's why I love this forum! We not only get busted for what we post, but also the way we post it!

Get real dude!. He IS a OC advocate. This kind of post by Orphan happens all the time. People don't read the THREAD, they read one or two posts and then get on their high horse and start typing.

Read the 4th post in the thread Orphan and follow the link.! And then come back and tell me he wasn't an OC advocate.

But I know you've been around for a while and are active in the movement, so I'll cut you some slack and from now on I'll PM you my potential posts to get a critique of my "common sense" and a OK to post. ;–))

sudden valley gunner · Aug 21, 2010

No one at the Visser home I just checked, no Visser in the hospital and no Vissers are answering their phones.

I am hoping and know there is more to this story. I know how slanted Bham paper can be and Mr. Slodysko's word means nothing. I have had personal dealings with him.

Some things are not making sense, who called police? Why did Martha go to the hospital if she was the one giving the beat down? Many missing details, where and when did they arrest, Tyler.

I am going to presume Tyler innocent until proven guilty, but this whole situation is making my stomach turn and my ulcer to act up.

Also they I don't believe they drove over to his ex's, the Visser's live right down the road from them so that odd bit of reporting does make sense.

f

Case #: 10B31585 Bellingham Police Activity - interesting here is the complaint made by Vissers for harassment the same day.

Citizen · Aug 21, 2010

ARADCOM said:
SNIP Get real dude!. He IS a OC advocate.

The point is not whether the thread title is 100% accurate or truthful. The point is the public-relations image conveyed in the thread title. However, I do think Orphan's concern is stronger or worded more strongly than perhaps genuinely needed for actual situation. A bit of a forgiveable over-reaction. The title of the thread is not a PR disaster. It could attract more attention, I think. But, its just a thread title. Its the thread that tells the tale. Anyone citing the thread title against us without reading and citing the thread posts is easily shot full of rhetorical holes. The thread title does not "admit" the allegations are true, does not endorse the alleged actions, etc.

Remember, everyone, that your recent thread titles can show up early on google returns. I recently discovered this when I posted a thread about a nexus between the 5th Amendment right to silence and the 2nd Amendment--self-preservation. Two days later I went looking for the original source of the quote by a US Supreme Ct justice that established the nexus. I was surprised out of my socks when my own thread showed up as the third google return on a search of the judge's name and the 5th Amendment.

A better thread title, from a PR point of view, might be something like, "Arrestee Charged With Brandishing", or "OCer Seized in [city]", "Good Use of Firearm?", or "Unproven Allegations Against OCer." But, again, I don't think the current thread title a huge deal. I just searched a few keywords that a curious non-member might use when looking for us just in general, and not specifically in relation to the thread, and got no google returns to this thread in the first 2-3 pages of returns. Almost as though the keywords for this thread title have so much in common with other, more numerous, net items that the keywords do not lead here.

ARADCOM · Aug 21, 2010

OK, so you're mostly right.

Citizen said:
The point is not whether the thread title is 100% accurate or truthful. The point is the public-relations image conveyed in the thread title. However, I do think Orphan's concern is stronger or worded more strongly than perhaps genuinely needed for actual situation. A bit of a forgiveable over-reaction. The title of the thread is not a PR disaster. It could attract more attention, I think. But, its just a thread title. Its the thread that tells the tale. Anyone citing the thread title against us without reading and citing the thread posts is easily shot full of rhetorical holes. The thread title does not "admit" the allegations are true, does not endorse the alleged actions, etc.

Remember, everyone, that your recent thread titles can show up early on google returns. I recently discovered this when I posted a thread about a nexus between the 5th Amendment right to silence and the 2nd Amendment--self-preservation. Two days later I went looking for the original source of the quote by a US Supreme Ct justice that established the nexus. I was surprised out of my socks when my own thread showed up as the third google return on a search of the judge's name and the 5th Amendment.

A better thread title, from a PR point of view, might be something like, "Arrestee Charged With Brandishing", or "OCer Seized in [city]", "Good Use of Firearm?", or "Unproven Allegations Against OCer." But, again, I don't think the current thread title a huge deal. I just searched a few keywords that a curious non-member might use when looking for us just in general, and not specifically in relation to the thread, and got no google returns to this thread in the first 2-3 pages of returns. Almost as though the keywords for this thread title have so much in common with other, more numerous, net items that the keywords do not lead here.

OK, so I can tell I'm intellectually outgunned on this one given your well reasoned response. So, maybe a different title might have been more appropriate.

However, methinks that if I had used the same title on a link to a legal OC'er getting illegally arrested for legally OC'ing... Well, probably no ones panties (or thong, as the case might be) would be bunched up.

My posts have not been negative on this and I only have issues with the people that are forming the lynch mob.

Ajetpilot · Aug 21, 2010

Thank you for your voice of reason!

Citizen said:
Psssst. Guys. This sort of thing is gonna happen.

Bear in mind we really don't know much about the event, so we don't really know whether Tyler abused the right...

Even if some of the information is true, it could be a much smaller abuse/offense than alleged...

So, lets wait and see. Or, try to find out...

For myself, I might only write, "If the facts turn out to fit the allegations, such actions are not condoned by open carriers. I find it interesting that some people have already concluded the allegations are true in all regards, before the investigation is complete and before anybody has heard from the arrestee. I wonder what is their agenda, with the understanding that having an agenda is still better than believing everything they hear."

Jumping to conclusions before the real facts are known is ridiculous. Reporters have a deadline to meet. They get their information from arrest reports. Allegations are easy; proof is hard.

Let's wait and see if we can discern what really happened.

sudden valley gunner · Aug 21, 2010

Ajetpilot said:
Jumping to conclusions before the real facts are known is ridiculous. Reporters have a deadline to meet. They get their information from arrest reports. Allegations are easy; proof is hard.

Let's wait and see if we can discern what really happened.

Plus 10.

gsx1138 · Aug 21, 2010

I think most everyone stated "if this is true". Unlike most forums everyone seems even tempered with this story.

sudden valley gunner · Aug 21, 2010

There were a few jump the gun comments but you are correct. According to the Bellingham Herald comments they are stupid hillbilly's ( can Hawaiian's be hillbilly's?).

What bothers me about the PD and the Herald is that neither report that apparently Tyler called the PD about the "victims" continual harassment of his family, and I don't believe this is his first call. Which again goes to show how useless calling the police can be.

gogodawgs · Aug 21, 2010

I would encourage SVG or someone else follow this case. Request from the BPD the 911 recordings and the police reports. Post them at NWCDL.org, in much the same way M1Gunr and I did for the Kirby case in Vancouver. Then we will have better and more accurate information. If you recall at first most were with Kirby until the Columbian wrote an article against him. We pursued a FOI request and posted the information and now most would be in support of Kirby.

To file a FOI request, first look at the website for BPD, and Bellingham or the County. The requests are usually informal and just a simple written letter sent to the authorities will generate the request.

I withhold judgment until such information comes forward.

sudden valley gunner · Aug 21, 2010

gogodawgs said:
I would encourage SVG or someone else follow this case. Request from the BPD the 911 recordings and the police reports. Post them at NWCDL.org, in much the same way M1Gunr and I did for the Kirby case in Vancouver. Then we will have better and more accurate information. If you recall at first most were with Kirby until the Columbian wrote an article against him. We pursued a FOI request and posted the information and now most would be in support of Kirby.

To file a FOI request, first look at the website for BPD, and Bellingham or the County. The requests are usually informal and just a simple written letter sent to the authorities will generate the request.

I withhold judgment until such information comes forward.

Good Idea, I have the case numbers already. For both Ty's call and for their arrest. And his call about being harassed. I think I have to go into the station though, I know they made me pick up the form for my case unless they have changed it. And they take several weeks to reply back.

This is way different than Kirby's case, though in that Kirby was doing nothing but wearing a gun, and there was no sort of altercation.

gogodawgs · Aug 21, 2010

sudden valley gunner said:
Good Idea, I have the case numbers already. For both Ty's call and for their arrest. And his call about being harassed. I think I have to go into the station though, I know they made me pick up the form for my case unless they have changed it. And they take several weeks to reply back.

This is way different than Kirby's case, though in that Kirby was doing nothing but wearing a gun, and there was no sort of altercation.

Correct, very different. But it will give this forum a greater perspective on what happened. It does take some time and patience, but since this group knows Tyler it is most likely worth the wait.

Jeff Hayes · Aug 22, 2010

ARADCOM said:
That's why I love this forum! We not only get busted for what we post, but also the way we post it!

Get real dude!. He IS a OC advocate. This kind of post by Orphan happens all the time. People don't read the THREAD, they read one or two posts and then get on their high horse and start typing.

Read the 4th post in the thread Orphan and follow the link.! And then come back and tell me he wasn't an OC advocate.

But I know you've been around for a while and are active in the movement, so I'll cut you some slack and from now on I'll PM you my potential posts to get a critique of my "common sense" and a OK to post. ;–))

I read the thread and the link several times before I posted. Citizen said it much better than I did, but I will still stand by my words every time we post we can do good for OC or we can do harm. I would hope that we all try to at least do no harm and that requires some thought thats all I was pointing out.

As far as making judgments I started out my post with IF and I repeated that it was a BIG IF, then I stated my opinion, that opinion was predicated on IF and BIG IF. That does not mean I have passed judgment on Mr Visser and I sincerely hope this is just bad reporting.

I live the 2nd Amendment everyday, I OC everyday every where I legally can. So far this year I have OCed 24/7 in 7 different states. I also know there are others that do the same but not many. Excuse me if my THONG gets in a wad when I see potential harm to the OC movement.

sudden valley gunner · Aug 22, 2010

gogodawgs said:
Correct, very different. But it will give this forum a greater perspective on what happened. It does take some time and patience, but since this group knows Tyler it is most likely worth the wait.

I don't think I can right now I'm leaving Tuesday, and I have a lawsuit against the city. And I am stressed out about this I fear what I might learn being Tyler was a friend. I would visit him tomorrow but his family is coming from Hawaii and he's only allowed one visitor a week. They'll be out on bail Monday. One of my main concerns has been looked after though and that is a relief.

I do know though when I saw Tyler last Saturday he had switched to concealed, and his family was very concerned about the harassment from his ex. So I doubt he was Open Carrying at this incident.

On a side note I wish this State institutions and judges would be as willing to give TRO's out to crazy ex's (when they are women) as quick as they do to unsuspecting guys. There definitely is a double standard there.

I think I am going to stop posting in this thread for awhile too depressing.

ARADCOM · Aug 22, 2010

Orphan said:
Excuse me if my THONG gets in a wad when I see potential harm to the OC movement.

I meant thong for any ladies posting. I picture you as more of a boxers kind of guy.

But don't take that to mean I'm trying to picture you in boxers. ;--))

And I guess I OC 24/7 too, 'cuz I have a gun under each pillow. And man, the Viridian green laser lights up the whole room. My own little light show!!

John Hardin · Aug 22, 2010

sudden valley gunner said:
... Tyler called the PD about the "victims" continual harassment of his family, and I don't believe this is his first call. Which again goes to show how useless calling the police can be.

Useless for stopping the harassment or protecting the victim, sure, but if nothing else they do serve as a records repository. Get the history of harassment recorded by a third party that carries some weight with the court in case you need to use it as evidence in court.

Beretta92FSLady · Aug 22, 2010

Instead of jumping on the bandwagon of distancing from this person, I am going to wait it out and see what the actual story is.

Chances are great that the article is at a minimum half wrong. I can't believe that there are people--on OC none-the-less-- that actually believe these articles, and formulate a reaction based on them.

If you are making judgments about this man based on the article, hopefully you are also stretching, getting limber, because you might just have to put your foot in your mouth. And I will be there waiting, excited to see you do it!

Matt85 · Aug 22, 2010

ive put some thought into this...

if im put into a situation where i discharge my firearm in self defence and the media spins it to make me look like the villian... will OCDO members insult me and turn there backs on me like some members have done in this thread?

im not saying the guy is innocent, but the news is hardly a realiable source of information as they are well known to spin stories in ways that push there own agenda. for those of you who were so quick to insult this guy and turn your back on him without actually knowing what happened... you should be ashamed.

BigDave · Aug 22, 2010

Story at least half wrong? what parts would that be?

He and his wife was at the ex-girlfriends house;
There was an argument;
There was a fight with injuries;
A third party trying to stop the fight having him put his arm around her throat and pointing a gun to her head;
A shot being fired into the ground;

They left and was arrested for assault and there was no mention they called 911;

Hmm sounds like a good old whoopin to me that went way to far, when the gun came out either being pointed at the head of another or even being shot into the ground (warning shot huh).

If he did as indicated in the story ie pulling a gun, pointing at someones head and shooting it into the ground, then to bad for him as there is no sympathy here, if somehow things are not as indicated then he made some really stupid mistakes from the get go.

Just being there shows a lack of intelligence on his and his wife's part and that is why I feel some including me tend to lean toward the story has a lot of truth in it.

As for being viewed by the public in a bad way in a shooting that is to be expected and something we will have to deal with.
If we brought it on ourselves then we should have known better.

I am sure when he gets out, he will have his say and it will be weighed as any other information being provided.

BigDave · Aug 22, 2010

Matt85 said:
ive put some thought into this...

if im put into a situation where i discharge my firearm in self defence and the media spins it to make me look like the villian... will OCDO members insult me and turn there backs on me like some members have done in this thread?

im not saying the guy is innocent, but the news is hardly a realiable source of information as they are well known to spin stories in ways that push there own agenda. for those of you who were so quick to insult this guy and turn your back on him without actually knowing what happened... you should be ashamed.

It is likely, along with family, friends and community to boot, this is to be expected.
All we can do is ensure we are not putting ourselves into a position as this and even then there will still be critics and anti gun views regardless.

Ruby · Aug 22, 2010

Matt85 said:
ive put some thought into this...

if im put into a situation where i discharge my firearm in self defence and the media spins it to make me look like the villian... will OCDO members insult me and turn there backs on me like some members have done in this thread?

im not saying the guy is innocent, but the news is hardly a realiable source of information as they are well known to spin stories in ways that push there own agenda. for those of you who were so quick to insult this guy and turn your back on him without actually knowing what happened... you should be ashamed.

Matt85, I agree with you completely. Too many people are getting their exercise by jumping to conclusions. The media is notorious for being inaccurate in reporting things like this. There have been other threads on here where this went on and when the truth finally came out, several people were served crow. As far as I am concerned, this man is innocent until proven guilty; isn't that what we all would want for ourselves? If I were ever in a position in which I had to defend myself or another innocent person with my gun I would do so, whether I received any support from this forum or not. My life is much more important to me than to care what other people might think when I am facing death.

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