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Thread: Texes LEOs say OC is a felony

  1. #1
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    Texes LEOs say OC is a felony

    http://forums.officer.com/forums/sho...pen-Carry-FAIL

    "No open carry in Texas and I absolutely friggin love it. You open carry in Tx and aren't a LEO, you go to jail for a felony. " -S.O.444

    Is that true? My wife and i were considering Texas as an option for relocation. However, if OC is under attack in Texas, of all places: I might reconsider.

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    There hasn't been open carry in Texas since the Reconstruction era in the 1800's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flb_78 View Post
    There hasn't been open carry in Texas since the Reconstruction era in the 1800's.
    I'm the last to know everything. =D

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    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    Texas is a "cross" between KALIFORNIA and ALASKA.

    That is in large part because Texas is a runner-up in the competition for the "biggest sate", and now is competing for the most "populous state" honor - WHICH IT WILL SOON ACHIEVE.

    I would estimate that 3/4 of Texans would (if they had legislative initiative options)vote for "constitutional carry" like Arizona. In other words -" If you ain't bothering nobody with your gun - then carry it."

    LEO's (Texas and otherwise) THANK GOD - DO NOT MAKE OUR LAWS. They are responsible FOR KNOWING THE LAW, and enforcing it-period. The LEO's opinion cited by the OP is correct in regards to failure to conceal by a concealed handgun licensee in a "BAR" failing to conceal a handgun INTENTIONALLY, KNOWINGLY, or RECKLESSLY. Other wise INTENTIONAL failure to conceal a handgun by a licensee is a Class A misdemeanor in Texas- if it can be established that the failure to conceal was INTENTIONAL. Not coincidentally that is the same penalty for DISORDERLY CONDUCT.

    Texas law does not criminalize concealment of a handgun per se, or require concealment except for licensees, and unlicensed vehicular carry. A " traveler " in Texas is provided by law with an open carry OR concealed carry affirmative defense to the section 46.02 handgun carry offense when in direct route TO HIS/HER VEHICLE - which implies PROXIMTY TO THE VEHICLE.

    I believe that the OP from UTAH would be a positive contribution to the effort to restore handgun rights in Texas. The economy in Texas is in great shape compared to the rest of the lower 48 states, and freedom loving people are always appreciated and welcomed in Texas.

    Just let me say this - The whole issue about "failure to conceal " in Texas centers on concerns that individuals may be prone to intimidate, menace, threaten, bully (what ever you want to call it ) by DISPLAYING A HANDGUN - EVEN HOLSTERED.

    Most folks in Texas are not going to get alarmed by the sight of a holstered handgun DEPENDING upon their PERCEPTION of the individual in question. Therein lies the problem. This is true even in the open carry states.

    This is why it is paramount that those who undertake "open carry" do so in a LEGAL, and PRUDENT manner. There will ALWAYS be a backlash to "EXTREMISM".

    OPEN CARRY in ANY state should only be engaged in after soberly considering the environment, and the circumstances. Human perception makes a distinction between 2 or 3 yound males ( Blacks wearing dew-rags, Hispanics with body tatoos, or White "skin-heads" ) "hanging out"(loitering) in the public square with handguns in, under, or attached to their belt ..... and say.... a middle aged fellow walking his wife along the "river-walk" (in either Pueblo CO, or San Antonio TX ) in a wheel-chair while wearing a Glock 23 in an IWB holstered that is hardly visible.... in the same environment.

    THREAT - or NO THREAT ??? You tell me.

    Should the OP relocate to Texas - or stay in Utah ? Personally - I think Texas will eventually be revealed as the most 2A friendly state in the Union - BECAUSE of the State's historical heritage - and the native culture of polite respect for the rights of others.
    Last edited by rushcreek2; 08-21-2010 at 07:06 PM.

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    The officer is wrong about it being a felony, like Rushcreek said, it's a misdemeanor. But it still is a crime.

    Though there is hope, the legislature is starting to give in. Still, a lot of people don't expect OC to be legal until 2013. I disagree, I think it's possible to get it passed this next session. But who knows.

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    Regular Member rotty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    The officer is wrong about it being a felony, like Rushcreek said, it's a misdemeanor. But it still is a crime.

    Say it is not so .. wait .. you are telling me he made that up about it being a felony ? [/sarcasm]
    - Knowledge is power and there IS strength in numbers -

    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    - Thomas Jefferson

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    A lot of weenies at officer.com.
    Perjury of OATH is a felony.
    If you think violating peoples rights is funny you should not be a cop.
    Life is tough, its tougher when your stupid.

    http://www.itsnotthelaw.com

    Feds: U.C.C. 1-308, State: U.C.C. 1-207, Both: U.C.C. 1-103.6

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    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    While in Houston last year, I swept my coat open to get to my wallet and there happened to be a Texas Ranger who was coming my direction and saw the 1911 on my hip. I was pulled aside, asked for my CPL/CHL. When he saw I was a visitor, he cut me some slack but impressed upon me that Texas is a concealed means concealed state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by M1Gunr View Post
    While in Houston last year, I swept my coat open to get to my wallet and there happened to be a Texas Ranger who was coming my direction and saw the 1911 on my hip. I was pulled aside, asked for my CPL/CHL. When he saw I was a visitor, he cut me some slack but impressed upon me that Texas is a concealed means concealed state.
    Good Lord - made by a Texas Ranger? what are the odds where were you when this happened?

  10. #10
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    Good Lord - made by a Texas Ranger? what are the odds where were you when this happened?
    I was in the SugarField area at a grocery store. Being from Washington I am very lazy in CC and he was walking by just as I swung my coat open to retrieve my wallet.

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    Just to make a clarification; open carry is legal in Texas on YOUR OWN property or on another's private property with premission. I usually OC when mowing with a revolver loaded with snake shot!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mark-in-texas View Post
    Just to make a clarification; open carry is legal in Texas on YOUR OWN property or on another's private property with premission.
    That's only half right: there is no exception for "on another's private property with permission".

    Texas Penal Code 46.02 makes it illegal to have a handgun on or about your person if you are not:
    (1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or
    (2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control.


    Texas Penal Code 46.15 lists other ways 46.02 is inapplicable:
    (b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
    (2) is traveling;
    (3) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's residence or motor vehicle, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;
    (7) holds an alcoholic beverage permit or license or is an employee of a holder of an alcoholic beverage permit or license if the person is supervising the operation of the permitted or licensed premises;


    For easy reading, I omitted all the occupational exceptions (police, security, military, etc.). What I have shown are the only exceptions. If you meet those exceptions, you may carry either openly or concealed, unless you are carrying in a motor vehicle while not traveling; in that case, it must be concealed.

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    Regular Member Thos.Jefferson's Avatar
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    research

    I believe if you do some research you will find a loophole in this "law". Blackpowder pistols should "technically" be legal as they are not concidered to be a firearm by the state of Texas. Happy hunting
    He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent which will reach to himself. -- Thomas Paine (1737--1809), Dissertation on First Principles of Government, 1795

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    What Constitutes 'Traveling'?
    How does one go about proving 'Traveling' in a Texas Court?
    Aside, the only other State I know of that has that Defense is Mississippi, but in Mississippi, it [Open Carry of a Loaded Handgun] is a whole different animal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aadvark View Post
    What Constitutes 'Traveling'?
    How does one go about proving 'Traveling' in a Texas Court?
    Aside, the only other State I know of that has that Defense is Mississippi, but in Mississippi, it [Open Carry of a Loaded Handgun] is a whole different animal.
    Arkansas has a traveling exception, too; the prohibition on carrying doesn't apply if you're on a "journey". Arkansas case law defines "journey" as going to another town outside your normal circle of friends and family.

    The term is not defined in Texas, either in statute or in statewide case law. You will hear lots of old wive's tales and watercooler lawyers claiming that it means crossing two county lines, or staying overnight, but there is no statewide definition.

    In their first attempt to make car carry legal (in 2007), the Legislature created a phrase that said "a person is presumed to be traveling if... (they're in a motor vehicle, they're not engaged in criminal activity other than a Class C traffic violation, they're not a gang member)". But, they muffed that by putting it in 46.02 where it was a defense to prosecution, instead of putting it in 46.15 where it would be an exception to the application of the law. That meant you could still be arrested, and would have to present the defense at trial, where the prosecutor could attempt to rebut the claim.

    Then in the 2009 Motorist Protection Act, they got it (mostly) right to make car carry legal without a license even if you don't meet the traveling exemption. Not perfect, but better, and it's a strong argument in favor of Constitutional Carry.

    The important part of traveling in Texas, even though it's not defined, is that PC 46.02 does not apply. None of it. If you're on a journey you can carry a handgun openly or concealed, an "illegal knife", or anything else other than a "prohibited weapon".
    Last edited by KBCraig; 08-28-2010 at 06:30 PM.

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