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Thread: Purchasing a handgun via private sale...Kicked out of Gunshow!

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    Regular Member ainfantry7's Avatar
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    Purchasing a handgun via private sale...Kicked out of Gunshow!

    I just got back from a gunshow in Roanoke, VA where I was escourted out by two armed security officers.

    Their reason being: "You can open carry under 21 without someone 21 with you." and "You cannot buy or sell a handgun through private transfer under the age of 21"

    I tried to reason with them, I googled it while at the gunshow. I called a friend to research it...Still they wouldn't believe me that you could buy or sell a handgun under the age of 21 via private sale.

    I made a few more laps around the tables, and noticed them coming up behind me. They said that I was to leave the gunshow immediately. I agreed to go since they told me to, didn't feel like trespassing...I asked one of them to walk and talk with me about the situation. While outside the two security officers said that I could come back the next day, but not carrying a handgun. One of them then said that if I was to come the next day carrying a handgun I would be trespassing and they would call the LEO's on me.

    What am I to do...I just need some type of USC code or federal law that says I can legally do the above...That way if they call the LEO's on me I'll have the laws in black and white right there...

    Thanks,

    ainfantry7

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    Quote Originally Posted by ainfantry7 View Post
    I just got back from a gunshow in Roanoke, VA where I was escourted out by two armed security officers.

    Their reason being: "You can open carry under 21 without someone 21 with you." and "You cannot buy or sell a handgun through private transfer under the age of 21"

    I tried to reason with them, I googled it while at the gunshow. I called a friend to research it...Still they wouldn't believe me that you could buy or sell a handgun under the age of 21 via private sale.

    I made a few more laps around the tables, and noticed them coming up behind me. They said that I was to leave the gunshow immediately. I agreed to go since they told me to, didn't feel like trespassing...I asked one of them to walk and talk with me about the situation. While outside the two security officers said that I could come back the next day, but not carrying a handgun. One of them then said that if I was to come the next day carrying a handgun I would be trespassing and they would call the LEO's on me.

    What am I to do...I just need some type of USC code or federal law that says I can legally do the above...That way if they call the LEO's on me I'll have the laws in black and white right there...

    Thanks,

    ainfantry7
    I have a call into the showmasters gun show people - I think they are running the show you attended, right? Federal law requires folks 18-21 to buy guns in private sales; Virginia is also like most states an allows unlicensed open csrry at age 18.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    I support your right to purchase and open carry... that said.. gunshows are usually on private property sand they can make up restrictive rules as they want to.

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    Ed the show ainfantry is referring to is held in the Roanoke Civic Center which is City of Roanoke property.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    Ed the show ainfantry is referring to is held in the Roanoke Civic Center which is City of Roanoke property.
    Roger that.. but if they RENTED it, they set the rules.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    Roger that.. but if they RENTED it, they set the rules.
    But they need to set the rules based on actual law. Since they claimed legal basis that does not exist... they need to at least make up a new story/excuse.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PavePusher View Post
    But they need to set the rules based on actual law. Since they claimed legal basis that does not exist... they need to at least make up a new story/excuse.
    Give Mike some time to settle it.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    One of the first things to determine is if Showmasters ordered the guy out, or if the security guards decided to act on their own.

    I've found the folks at Showmasters to be extremely customer-friendly as long as the customer is willing to be calm, polite and give them a chance to sort things out.

    The next step would be to find out who is paying the private security - Showmasters or the City of Roanoke. The two may have entirely different views on what you were doing. (I'm presuming you complied with the "no loaded weapons" restriction beforecentering the gunshow floor.) I'm betting that the armed security are on the city's payroll, as Showmasters generally relies on the fact that on-duty State Troopers, local cops, and ATF are patrolling the floors both in and out of uniform. (The few gun shows where I've seen private security they were at the entrances only checking that your zipties were in place and you had bought a ticket. I do not recall them ever being on the gunshow floor.)

    Out of curiosity, how did the security guards decide that you were under 21? If they asked -- oh, heck!

    stay safe.

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    re

    Even if it is on private property, if they allow people to open carry except for a certain age group, that could be considered discriminatory.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bolt_action View Post
    Even if it is on private property, if they allow people to open carry except for a certain age group, that could be considered discriminatory.
    My grocery store cards anyone that looks under 30. So if yer 31 and they card you or you are 29 and they don't.. you have no case.. it's THEIR "rule".. same thing at the gun show. They could say "if you open carry.. you can only open carry revolvers, or kimbers only, or no glocks".. whatEVER they want

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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    My grocery store cards anyone that looks under 30. So if yer 31 and they card you or you are 29 and they don't.. you have no case.. it's THEIR "rule".. same thing at the gun show. They could say "if you open carry.. you can only open carry revolvers, or kimbers only, or no glocks".. whatEVER they want
    You missed what I was saying completely. Grocery stores have rules that apply to everyone regardless of age, also stores reserve the right to withhold the sale of alcohol and tabacco for whatever reason. It is an entirely different situation when you are ID'd for the purpose of making sure you are of age, and being forced off property due to your age, if you are within the law.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bolt_action View Post
    You missed what I was saying completely.
    You missed what I was saying.. they can make pretty much any reason they want. Tennis shoes only, whatever. Many gun shows have signs that say "no private sales" now just because of political pressure. Might be hard to enforce but they could kick you out for having a for sale sign. You cant shoot at my range (SEG) if you are under 21 without a parent(sigmature). The gun show can do what they want regarding rules and ages

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ainfantry7 View Post
    I just need some type of USC code or federal law that says I can legally do the above
    Not the purpose of the law. This represents a fundamental misunderstanding of how our governments work.

    +1 for waiting on Mike
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I have a call into the showmasters gun show people - I think they are running the show you attended, right? Federal law requires folks 18-21 to buy guns in private sales; Virginia is also like most states an allows unlicensed open csrry at age 18.
    I know the owner too. If Mike does not get an answer I will be second in line.

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    Regular Member CRF250rider1000's Avatar
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    Stupid question but are you a VA resident? Just wondering because it says Alaska on your profile.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Age discrimination

    Quote Originally Posted by bolt_action View Post
    Even if it is on private property, if they allow people to open carry except for a certain age group, that could be considered discriminatory.
    1) Private venue, their rules apply

    2) Not discriminatory unless your are 40 or more years old and involves employment.
    http://www.eeoc.gov/facts/age.html
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    As noted, private parties are allowed to make up any rules they want (OC is not a federally protected class, so there is no discrimination).

    The question will come down to how stupid do they want to let themselves look by incorrectly making up rules based on laws that do not exist.

    I hope Mike can make that point crystal clear to them.

    TFred

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    As noted, private parties are allowed to make up any rules they want (OC is not a federally protected class, so there is no discrimination).

    The question will come down to how stupid do they want to let themselves look by incorrectly making up rules based on laws that do not exist.

    I hope Mike can make that point crystal clear to them.

    TFred
    I know the promoter too and I'm guessing this was not on Showmasters orders, rather an independent move by the Guards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I know the promoter too and I'm guessing this was not on Showmasters orders, rather an independent move by the Guards.
    Private property owners can set whatever policy they like. But that is far different than telling you you're committing an illegal act, which they did. I would have had the armed guards call over an actual LEO (since I'm sure there were several there at the show) and had them confirm or [deny] their accusation. I still would leave if they asked me to to avoid trespass but I would not accept their accusation of me violating the law.

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    Regular Member ainfantry7's Avatar
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    Sorry for the late reply...haven't had access to a computer all day.

    For starters I'm a va resident under 21, over 18.

    I was trading a rifle for a pistol and some cash. I mentioned to the other party that I was under 21. He got a little skiddish when I told him, so I said we would double check with a reputable dealer to ease his mind. While walking twards the dealer we ran into the security where the other party asked them if the private transfer was legal.

    The security guards said it was highly illegal and the only reason that they weren't going to persue the matter any further was because I had someone over 21 with me. This referring to them telling me that I couldn't open carry under 21 without someone 21 with me...

    So I'm going to go tommarow with documents in hand. If you're there give me a shout. I'll be wearing an od green Larue Tactical hat with a fish hook...

    ainfantry7

    Btw I had to type all this using a cell phone, so sorry if there are any errors. Haha...that's what you call commitment!

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    Regular Member ainfantry7's Avatar
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    Forgot to finish...I was checking out another pistol when they confronted me and told me to leave. I tried to reason with them, but they just wouldn't have it. Atleast from a youngin when one of them made it clear that they were a 20 some year state police officer.

    Any help or phone numbers would be appreciated. Will take the camera tommarow too...

    Thanks,
    ainfantry7

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    Quote Originally Posted by ainfantry7 View Post
    one of them made it clear that they were a 20 some year state police officer.
    Oh now this is good stuff. A 20 years state trooper in what state? I HIGHLY doubt anyone with any connection to Virginia State Police would be that ignorant and wrong on VA gun laws. I would have called him out on his BS right there and get a real Virginia State Trooper to correct this wrongdoing. And maybe even get this guy who stop with his BS that's now sounding like borderline impersonation.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    See if you can get names today,

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ainfantry7 View Post
    Forgot to finish...I was checking out another pistol when they confronted me and told me to leave. I tried to reason with them, but they just wouldn't have it. Atleast from a youngin when one of them made it clear that they were a 20 some year state police officer.

    Any help or phone numbers would be appreciated. Will take the camera tommarow too...

    Thanks,
    ainfantry7
    Guess they retired early so that they could become rent-a-cops sooner.

    You really need to clear up the question regarding your shown profile location and your desire to acquire guns in Virginia. Not suggesting any negative condition - it just causes confusion.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Guess they retired early so that they could become rent-a-cops sooner.

    You really need to clear up the question regarding your shown profile location and your desire to acquire guns in Virginia. Not suggesting any negative condition - it just causes confusion.
    The username pretty much implies active duty... which if so, makes it not at all confusing.

    TFred

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