• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Purchasing a handgun via private sale...Kicked out of Gunshow!

ainfantry7

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2008
Messages
66
Location
Roanoke, VA, USA
I just got back from a gunshow in Roanoke, VA where I was escourted out by two armed security officers.

Their reason being: "You can open carry under 21 without someone 21 with you." and "You cannot buy or sell a handgun through private transfer under the age of 21"

I tried to reason with them, I googled it while at the gunshow. I called a friend to research it...Still they wouldn't believe me that you could buy or sell a handgun under the age of 21 via private sale.

I made a few more laps around the tables, and noticed them coming up behind me. They said that I was to leave the gunshow immediately. I agreed to go since they told me to, didn't feel like trespassing...I asked one of them to walk and talk with me about the situation. While outside the two security officers said that I could come back the next day, but not carrying a handgun. One of them then said that if I was to come the next day carrying a handgun I would be trespassing and they would call the LEO's on me.

What am I to do...I just need some type of USC code or federal law that says I can legally do the above...That way if they call the LEO's on me I'll have the laws in black and white right there...

Thanks,

ainfantry7
 

Mike

Site Co-Founder
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
8,706
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
I just got back from a gunshow in Roanoke, VA where I was escourted out by two armed security officers.

Their reason being: "You can open carry under 21 without someone 21 with you." and "You cannot buy or sell a handgun through private transfer under the age of 21"

I tried to reason with them, I googled it while at the gunshow. I called a friend to research it...Still they wouldn't believe me that you could buy or sell a handgun under the age of 21 via private sale.

I made a few more laps around the tables, and noticed them coming up behind me. They said that I was to leave the gunshow immediately. I agreed to go since they told me to, didn't feel like trespassing...I asked one of them to walk and talk with me about the situation. While outside the two security officers said that I could come back the next day, but not carrying a handgun. One of them then said that if I was to come the next day carrying a handgun I would be trespassing and they would call the LEO's on me.

What am I to do...I just need some type of USC code or federal law that says I can legally do the above...That way if they call the LEO's on me I'll have the laws in black and white right there...

Thanks,

ainfantry7

I have a call into the showmasters gun show people - I think they are running the show you attended, right? Federal law requires folks 18-21 to buy guns in private sales; Virginia is also like most states an allows unlicensed open csrry at age 18.
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
One of the first things to determine is if Showmasters ordered the guy out, or if the security guards decided to act on their own.

I've found the folks at Showmasters to be extremely customer-friendly as long as the customer is willing to be calm, polite and give them a chance to sort things out.

The next step would be to find out who is paying the private security - Showmasters or the City of Roanoke. The two may have entirely different views on what you were doing. (I'm presuming you complied with the "no loaded weapons" restriction beforecentering the gunshow floor.) I'm betting that the armed security are on the city's payroll, as Showmasters generally relies on the fact that on-duty State Troopers, local cops, and ATF are patrolling the floors both in and out of uniform. (The few gun shows where I've seen private security they were at the entrances only checking that your zipties were in place and you had bought a ticket. I do not recall them ever being on the gunshow floor.)

Out of curiosity, how did the security guards decide that you were under 21? If they asked -- oh, heck!

stay safe.
 

ed

Founder's Club Member - Moderator
Joined
Mar 8, 2008
Messages
4,841
Location
Loudoun County - Dulles Airport, Virginia, USA
Even if it is on private property, if they allow people to open carry except for a certain age group, that could be considered discriminatory.
My grocery store cards anyone that looks under 30. So if yer 31 and they card you or you are 29 and they don't.. you have no case.. it's THEIR "rule".. same thing at the gun show. They could say "if you open carry.. you can only open carry revolvers, or kimbers only, or no glocks".. whatEVER they want
 

bolt_action

New member
Joined
Aug 21, 2010
Messages
3
Location
Charlottesville Virginia
My grocery store cards anyone that looks under 30. So if yer 31 and they card you or you are 29 and they don't.. you have no case.. it's THEIR "rule".. same thing at the gun show. They could say "if you open carry.. you can only open carry revolvers, or kimbers only, or no glocks".. whatEVER they want

You missed what I was saying completely. Grocery stores have rules that apply to everyone regardless of age, also stores reserve the right to withhold the sale of alcohol and tabacco for whatever reason. It is an entirely different situation when you are ID'd for the purpose of making sure you are of age, and being forced off property due to your age, if you are within the law.
 

ed

Founder's Club Member - Moderator
Joined
Mar 8, 2008
Messages
4,841
Location
Loudoun County - Dulles Airport, Virginia, USA
You missed what I was saying completely.
You missed what I was saying.. they can make pretty much any reason they want. Tennis shoes only, whatever. Many gun shows have signs that say "no private sales" now just because of political pressure. Might be hard to enforce but they could kick you out for having a for sale sign. You cant shoot at my range (SEG) if you are under 21 without a parent(sigmature). The gun show can do what they want regarding rules and ages
 

ed

Founder's Club Member - Moderator
Joined
Mar 8, 2008
Messages
4,841
Location
Loudoun County - Dulles Airport, Virginia, USA
I have a call into the showmasters gun show people - I think they are running the show you attended, right? Federal law requires folks 18-21 to buy guns in private sales; Virginia is also like most states an allows unlicensed open csrry at age 18.

I know the owner too. If Mike does not get an answer I will be second in line.
 

TFred

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
7,750
Location
Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
As noted, private parties are allowed to make up any rules they want (OC is not a federally protected class, so there is no discrimination).

The question will come down to how stupid do they want to let themselves look by incorrectly making up rules based on laws that do not exist.

I hope Mike can make that point crystal clear to them.

TFred
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
As noted, private parties are allowed to make up any rules they want (OC is not a federally protected class, so there is no discrimination).

The question will come down to how stupid do they want to let themselves look by incorrectly making up rules based on laws that do not exist.

I hope Mike can make that point crystal clear to them.

TFred

I know the promoter too and I'm guessing this was not on Showmasters orders, rather an independent move by the Guards.
 

nova

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2007
Messages
3,149
Location
US
I know the promoter too and I'm guessing this was not on Showmasters orders, rather an independent move by the Guards.
Private property owners can set whatever policy they like. But that is far different than telling you you're committing an illegal act, which they did. I would have had the armed guards call over an actual LEO (since I'm sure there were several there at the show) and had them confirm or [deny] their accusation. I still would leave if they asked me to to avoid trespass but I would not accept their accusation of me violating the law.
 

ainfantry7

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2008
Messages
66
Location
Roanoke, VA, USA
Sorry for the late reply...haven't had access to a computer all day.

For starters I'm a va resident under 21, over 18.

I was trading a rifle for a pistol and some cash. I mentioned to the other party that I was under 21. He got a little skiddish when I told him, so I said we would double check with a reputable dealer to ease his mind. While walking twards the dealer we ran into the security where the other party asked them if the private transfer was legal.

The security guards said it was highly illegal and the only reason that they weren't going to persue the matter any further was because I had someone over 21 with me. This referring to them telling me that I couldn't open carry under 21 without someone 21 with me...

So I'm going to go tommarow with documents in hand. If you're there give me a shout. I'll be wearing an od green Larue Tactical hat with a fish hook...

ainfantry7

Btw I had to type all this using a cell phone, so sorry if there are any errors. Haha...that's what you call commitment!
 
Top