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Thread: Reason to go in groups?

  1. #1
    Regular Member Yooper's Avatar
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    Reason to go in groups?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtO6wnWxHZw

    Though not directly OC related, it is related in that the person was trying to record his encounter with law enforcement.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    There is a time and place where it becomes appropriate to resist arrest with deadly force, particularly when potentially deadly force is being recklessly and maliciously exerted against a victim by 1 or more felonious police officers. This here appears to be an example of such a situation.

    And about groups, I would call that a big fat YES. Whether you're talking about OCers in Michigan meeting in a city as a corrective action after abuse takes place (warren was a good example) or a group like the Deacons For Defense and Justice which paralleled our efforts in countless ways, there is safety in numbers. Bullies tend to be scared of large groups.

    Of course, most cities as of lately seem to have thoroughly educated their officers so it's not so important anymore except for a select few situations, but still, it's important to remember that a group is safer when trouble is suspected, and luckily with the folks here, it's easy to get a group for a specific action, even on short notice.
    Last edited by Michigander; 08-22-2010 at 09:31 AM.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Luckly there was a camera there that recorded this incident. These cops need to be terminated and prosecuted.

  4. #4
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    The cops hit him in the chest. In my book, that's attempted murder. They should be stood up on that rail, , and left to rot at the bottom.
    Last edited by stainless1911; 08-22-2010 at 10:31 AM.

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    This is why it should be illegal for the police to disarm you.

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    Stainless - thanks for editing that post! I understand the anger over it!
    Last edited by PDinDetroit; 08-22-2010 at 10:34 AM.

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    Regular Member fozzy71's Avatar
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    ^

    That is why I am done here. No one considers the possibility he was being facetious, or sarcastic?

    You guys have fun eating your own, I am done.
    Last edited by fozzy71; 08-22-2010 at 10:23 AM. Reason: The internet is serious business here. You guys need to lighten up FFS.
    "I like users who quote smellslikemichigan in their signature lines." - fozzy71

  8. #8
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fozzy71 View Post
    ^

    That is why I am done here. No one considers the possibility he was being facetious, or sarcastic?

    You guys have fun eating your own, I am done.
    I did not attack him in any way, I only asked that he change the post as he is promoting illegal behavior against forum rules.

    It is apparent you have taken something personally on this board. That is too bad, I have enjoyed reading your posts.
    Last edited by PDinDetroit; 08-22-2010 at 10:36 AM.

  9. #9
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    Cool

    Open carry as individuals in daily life is what advances our cause - normalization of gun carry - best.

    Carrying in a group has two drawbacks - first, less likley to normalize gun carry, and two, more likley to frankly "justify" as a legal and publicity manner a police response, e.g., unfairly but often inevitably charachterized as "a mob of people with guns." Carrying in groups actually signals you are afraid to carry and deters iothers from doing so.

    That's not to say nobody should hold open carry meetups, rallies, luncheons, etc. - I'm just pointing out the range of courses of action and likley outcomes.

    I hae open carried in VA, PA, OH, WV, and KY in various public places and often in front of police officers - never had a problem with any police officers, though some officers did check me and some others while eating dinner at Chammps in Reston in 2004 one time.

    I suggst folks stop worrying about the police so much - in the nlikley event you are detained unlawfully, then see an attorney and makes some official complaints - that's the way to deal with unlawful police behavior - carrying in groups with cameras to try to incite a police response so you can record it is not very productive.

  10. #10
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    No, he did not attack me, he is right. Edit made.

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    @ Fozzy. I hope you don't leave.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Michigun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    The cops hit him in the chest. In my book, that's attempted murder. They should be stood up on that rail, , and left to rot at the bottom.
    I'm sorry but I can not see how punching someone in the chest is attempted murder.

  14. #14
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    It can stop the heart.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Michigun's Avatar
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    thats quite a stretch there.

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    Exclamation

    Police are very nice people. I don't think there is any need to video tape their activities. This is probably a training video.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    Agreed and my fear is that the bad cops will push things to this point.


    Denver is one of this country's most liberal cities, and this should be noted. The most brutality I have witnessed from Police are in Liberal enclaves. It smacks of contradiction.


    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    There is a time and place where it becomes appropriate to resist arrest with deadly force, particularly when potentially deadly force is being recklessly and maliciously exerted against a victim by 1 or more felonious police officers. This here appears to be an example of such a situation.

    And about groups, I would call that a big fat YES. Whether you're talking about OCers in Michigan meeting in a city as a corrective action after abuse takes place (warren was a good example) or a group like the Deacons For Defense and Justice which paralleled our efforts in countless ways, there is safety in numbers. Bullies tend to be scared of large groups.

    Of course, most cities as of lately seem to have thoroughly educated their officers so it's not so important anymore except for a select few situations, but still, it's important to remember that a group is safer when trouble is suspected, and luckily with the folks here, it's easy to get a group for a specific action, even on short notice.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    Really? I have in self defense chest punched someone and they went into a irregular heart beat for a while and had to be hospitalized, now granted I am not tiny, but my best friend did the same against a thug and his heart stopped and had to be CPR'd back. You might be shocked at how many people each week die as a result of a fist, and I don't mean being beat mercilessly either. Sometimes one punch can cause death.


    Quote Originally Posted by Michigun View Post
    I'm sorry but I can not see how punching someone in the chest is attempted murder.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    Good point!


    Quote Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtO6wnWxHZw

    Though not directly OC related, it is related in that the person was trying to record his encounter with law enforcement.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  20. #20
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bailenforcer View Post
    Really? I have in self defense chest punched someone and they went into a irregular heart beat for a while and had to be hospitalized, now granted I am not tiny, but my best friend did the same against a thug and his heart stopped and had to be CPR'd back. You might be shocked at how many people each week die as a result of a fist, and I don't mean being beat mercilessly either. Sometimes one punch can cause death.
    Agreed. In MI, this would fall into the "great bodily harm leading to imminent death".

    I do not advocate violence, but I do advocate proper self-defense.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Michigun's Avatar
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    I can see how in extreme circumstances someone's heart could "stop", or perhaps they have some type of underlying cardiac problem, but if it were that common we would see in the news victims of a chest punch dying daily. Did your friend get charged with attempted murder?

  22. #22
    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    If it was against a thug,one could probably assume it was self defense.


    as for the on topic portion of my post....

    those cops should be thrown in prison for attempted murder,as well as a few other charges,i sincerely hope they get that too,long prison sentences.
    Last edited by lil_freak_66; 08-22-2010 at 12:18 PM.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigun View Post
    I'm sorry but I can not see how punching someone in the chest is attempted murder.
    In 6 of the 108 deaths, prosecutors pursued homicide or manslaughter charges against children or adults who struck the blow that allegedly caused the death, Maron says.
    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...g=content;col1

  24. #24
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    No he was stopping a violent felonious assault and the City Police Dept did claim it was such by the prosecutor declined to prosecute. It would have gone no where anyways.

    I am trained in CPR and even a healthy heart hit right can stop. The human body is amazing but There are people killed in 30 MPH accidents often and we never realize this. It reminds me there was a famous mountain climber who climbed many summits and he had been through many injuries as one might expect, one day he got on his bicycle and tipped over and died. Life is weird that way, it doesn't always necessitate a preexisting condition. We all have heard stories of people surviving in unsurvivable and yet rarely heard of those many tragic incidents where something so minor lead to ones death, because it isn't spectacular news. News is based on sensationalism.


    Quote Originally Posted by Michigun View Post
    I can see how in extreme circumstances someone's heart could "stop", or perhaps they have some type of underlying cardiac problem, but if it were that common we would see in the news victims of a chest punch dying daily. Did your friend get charged with attempted murder?
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Michigun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coffee4meplz View Post
    In 6 of the 108 deaths, prosecutors pursued homicide or manslaughter charges against children or adults who struck the blow that allegedly caused the death, Maron says.
    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...g=content;col1
    Thanks for the info but those are deaths. What percent of assaults of someone "punched in the chest" are charged as attempted murder?

    Bailenforcer said it best, these types of charges would go nowhere.

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