i will post the link to the video of the vest i shot
Thread: Shooting at range, Busik
Hi all went down today to the range to shoot out an old vest with the ar 223 and the rounds went right threw the vest.
also had a discussion with a guy about open carry here is the context
just got back from the range at busik state park, had a talk with a guy who states that the new way to do away with ccw is that if someone sees you with a gun weather it is concealed or open carry and they cal the police that they will give you a ticket for disturb the peace with a firearm and that it will be a felony charge and then you will loose your firearm rights.
I have never heard of this before and have been open carry in the southwest mo area for 4 yr and have had the police called and have never been issued no such kind of ticket, futher more i go into gas stations were the police are at and they have seen it and never said a word about it at all
i will post the link to the video of the vest i shot
No, the guy was talking out his ass.
Almost every municipal code (check your own) states intentional disturbance of the peace. For example here is Warrensburg's code: (Bold words highlighted by me)
Sec. 14-82. Disturbance of public peace.
A person commits the offense of disturbance of the public peace if:
(1) He unreasonably and knowingly disturbs or alarms another person or persons by:
a. Loud noise;
b. Offensive and indecent language which is likely to produce an immediate violent response from a reasonable recipient;
c. Threatening to commit a crime against any person;
e. Creating a noxious and offensive odor;
(2) He is in a public place or on private property of another without consent and purposely causes inconvenience to another person or persons by unreasonably and physically obstructing:
a. Vehicular or pedestrian traffic;
b. The free ingress or egress to or from a public or private place;
(3) He unreasonably and knowingly disturbs any religious assembly in the city, by any of the methods described in subsection (1) or (2), within or about a place of worship, so as to disturb the order or solemnity of the meeting therein.
As you can see, the law is generally worded so people can't just make things up and arrest you. It doesn't matter if people are offended or scared that you are OC'ing. As long as you are doing nothing irrational, nor purposely disrupting the peace you can't be lawfully arrested. And even if you were, it would be a misdemeanor.
Last edited by Big Boy; 08-23-2010 at 12:20 AM.
Yeah this is what I thought, you know everyone has own thoughts some are
Right some are wrong,people need to do homework before talking
About these things. Don't forget to visit www.opencarryinmo.com
For the link to the video
The "disorderly conduct" charge is a catch all and yes, some LEOs WILL try to use this, especially in the KC and STL areas. You should not have any problems with CCW in and around Springfield. However, if you choose to OC you had better be prepared to be addressed at gunpoint if an officer doesn't see you OC'ing directly. The panicked caller is something they don't seem to want to investigate and go on just the random statements of the "nobody anti". To me it's no different than making a false police report and the LEOs need to start investigating those issues on bogus gun calls.
If you're in the Springfield area and get a knuckle-headed LEO trying to arrest you using the disorderly conduct catch-all, you had better heed these words (IANAL): ask for your lawyer, envoke your 5th Amendment rights, and shut your mouth permanently until you get a lawyer present, then let your lawyer do all the talking.
Last edited by heresyourdipstickjimmy; 08-28-2010 at 12:27 AM.
i have still have never been arrested by any leo here in springfield mo or ever been drawn down at gunpoint buy any leo most of them here in the area are really mellow
yah same here opencarryinmo, i never had any cop ever confront me, or even get a shock look at me for OC. i seen them glance at it.
and you have to put in consideration that heresyourdipstickjimmy always exagerates the downsides of OCing, like his remarks about you beter prepare for the cops address you by gun point. you just got to get to the fact that in general he going to think you should CCW, unless its REAL HOT outside, then its okay to OC. but like me i got the cops called on me ONCE in bolivar(not at gun point), and now he thinks i should CCW in bolivar just b/c of that. like i did something wrong. there a lot of people on here that are actually not a big OC supporter or not unless we get a full premption.
the worse thing i think you really got to worry about the cops in springfield are, that they might lecture you that you should CCW to keep the sheeple happy. i not saying no one in springfields has been addressed at gunpoint, but i think its not very common. and that you shouldnt really expect if you do get a cop called on you, that you should automatically think your going to be at gun point by the cops.
Did you really just say this? Are you really that ignorant and forgetful? I do recall you telling me about a LEO involved OC incident in Bolivar per the senseless "man with a gun" call, unless you were lying about that. Then you've also mentioned the CiCi's incident again OC'ing when you likely should have been CCW'ing. So I'd wager you've had more encounters addressing your OC'ing than you've told me at this point. Is it any wonder LMTD got frustrated with you?
It's not me exaggerating at all, it's the OCDO members not waking up to the fact that in today's society folks that do not practice any form of carry aren't receptive to such exposure. A perfect example of this head-in-the-sand viewpoint is that the idea that alcohol and carry is acceptable keeps coming up....well a Christian County corporal proved just how good an idea that was the other night didn't he.
Perhaps it's just my interpretation of the posts on this forum, but it appears to me that the argument is that most of the members here don't have enough sense to know to CCW when they have the permit...even if it's out of courtesy to the folks they expose to it.
If you cannot practice the simple courtesy of covering when and where others may not be open to the idea of OC then stop making the rest of us look bad and just stop carrying all together. Remember, your right to bear arms is ONLY a right until it infringes on the rights of others...at that point it can be taken away, temporarily or permanently. An environment filled with children and families is a cover-up environment...for their safety not ours.
And just how are you going to react if you're confronted with a LEO drawing down on you if you haven't trained yourself to react properly. Chances are you'll either fly off at the mouth citing that it's your right and it's legal (cops won't care either) or you'll get smart and be quiet (know and use your rights at that point)...take all your commands from the range tower so to speak. You have no idea how trigger itchy LEOs can be...most of those LEOs don't even know it until they're faced with an individual that possesses the same amount of force as they do...at that point reality sets in as well as the nervousness. Springfield particularly doesn't have a bunch of people walking around OC'ing, which is obvious given the SPD's reactions to the issue, that is until some have had contact with an individual more than once.
But I wouldn't expect anyone not formerly or currently a LEO to understand that. I have the advantage of having served in that capacity in the military and fully understand EXACTLY the reactions that the LEO side will have and just how extreme they can and will take things, especially when they are uneducated and improperly trained by their own departments.
Last edited by heresyourdipstickjimmy; 08-30-2010 at 08:43 PM.
and the CICI had ONE family in it with 1 kid under 18, and one kid that prob looked like he was in college, basically a couple years younger then me. and the store manager was real polite after i showed him my CCW license. why is that such a bad thing that he checked my CCW license? So your stating i should conceal there b/c of ONE family. i mean so basically your saying i should CCW EVERYWHERE, since there always going to be atleast ONE family somewhere i go. and that family didnt even seem to notice me or my gun. to them i prob was no different then the guy CCW since they didnt even seem to look at me or stop their conversation when i passed by several times going to the buffet.
you made a statement before that US OC folk should wait til there is a statewide premeption. and then you now stated that i should CCW if there someone that dosent like me OC. do you really think that if we got a statewide premption, that everyone is going to be okay with it then? and they can repeal a law just as easy as it is to make a law. so even after we have a statewide premption. should i not carry OC in fear that someone will not like me OCing, and that they will try to take away my OC rights?
but really it comes down to this. if your going to hide your gun when there family around, you should just CCW all the time, due to the fact that unless your going to a strip joint, a bar, etc your prob going to be around atleast ONE family. and yes some places are more family oriented. but really whats the difference from being in front of a family in CiCi, or being infront of that same family in walmart? not much, and you OC as well, so you dont even follow your own rules. b/c you have stated that we should wait till we get a statewide premeption. and i guessing on top of that rule you broke, you also were in front of atleast ONE family when you were OC if you were in springfield. i just find it a bit funny how its okay for you to OC, and break your own rules. and since your breaking your own rules, i going to also.
but like you said you got the past military or cop experience, so that makes you all knowledgable( except on that bolivar is not in springfield, but i guess we can over look that. i mean bolivar only a small town, who knew that it wasnt inside of springfield.). i mean we all know how smart cops are right? but i gotta say, you sure do sound like a cop. especially when your stating i should hide my gun for ONE family. even though you prob walk into walmart that has 50+ families.
Last edited by goalseter88; 08-31-2010 at 12:16 AM.
Uhm, I was not in this hunt but I do have something to offer.
I grew up in Springfield, my Father was Greene County Deputy and I can assure you he was not a prize law enforcement officer, it was a lot more billybadass than it was anything else.
Now speaking directly to the popo in Springfield, I can not speak to direct knowledge, but a recent take down of a suspect who was a CCW driver of a car that an OC'er was in at the time of a MWG call but not at the time of the police response was not pleasant at all.
Long story short, two guys go to range, one does not have ccw so he oc's, stop for gas at fremont and kimbrough if I recall correctly, the ccw goes in to pay cause the oc does not want to create issues, leave and drop oc guy off at home, driving down road, popo lights him up, pulls right and four more cars come screaming up running code, I believe he said 6 officers jump from car weapons drawn, ordered out, knee in back, cuffed and thrown in back of popo car, car and trunk searched, reamed out for oc instead of cc and trying to scare folks by oc bla bla bla, offending agency that performed felony stop on citizen they knew had broken no law, arrested and abused, violated 4a rights for no reason other than be a bunch of tough guys, the Springfield MO POPO
Any more questions?
You can review the discussions on missouricarry, all 17 pages where a leo takes to defending them and once the reports come out, changes his position and agrees that the stop was indeed completely illegal.
Oh date July 2010 I think it was the 25th but I do not recall and I have no dog in this hunt. I know there are several bad cops in Springfield MO and I can assure you that more than a few have a history of harassing folks for any reason not just OC, OC just makes em think they have a real good excuse.
Now my only other comment is the lack of good judgment in goalsetters comment "there a lot of people on here that are actually not a big OC supporter or not unless we get a full premption." This is very poor wording and out and out just not true. There ARE indeed people here who are not afraid to say that rubbing your rights in the faces of authorities is not necessarily the best path TO state wide preemption and in many cases can work against preemption and that sir is how you ACCURATELY say it. And despite ANY OPINION to the contrary, the firearms act of 1968 was indeed enacted because the black panthers expressed their rights and OC'ed, nothing they did was illegal at all, but it was within 2 months of them doing it, signed into law by one of the best known PRO2a presidents, Reagan when he was Governor of cali following the open carry of firearms march of the black panthers.
Know your history or you shall repeat it. The old saying "the squeeky wheel gets the grease", is actually followed by the more real one "it is also the first one that gets replaced"
Just because someone does not openly carry a firearm every day does not mean that they are not for OC and I offer that sounds just about as dumb as when USMCBESS tries to imply it takes courage (balls), nothing could be further from the truth and while I can not speak for everyone, I can assure you I was oc'ing before either of you were BORN. I do not OC much at all, by my own choice and no I do not feel compelled to videotape myself doing it or take my picture to prove it, I oc'd this Sunday all by lonesome, me and my gals' son and another shooter, had breakfast, went to the range, had lunch, and went home and I was shooting rifles only etc.
Just because someone chooses not to scream from the mountain tops "I have a gun" and try to show it to everyone and post it online for fame does not mean they do not support the cause, it might mean they support it far more than those who do because they KNOW what it will take to change the law and it is not walking around wearing a gun.
LMTD, you do not OC much at all, but you do OC on occasion apparently, as do I...especially when it's too friggin hot to have a cover garment, but then again it only takes pulling my shirt over my firearm.
What's this if you're going to cover around someone's family then CCW all the time garbage? Ok, then be courteous to the general unreceptive public and put that into practice...carry concealed all the time, you have the permit.
It's not the other carrying folks we have to worry about and why we keep hashing over OC and CCW is just senseless, wouldn't you agree? It's the unreceptive joe public that doesn't welcome that firearm, is uneducated on the issue, doesn't know the local crime statistics, or simply doesn't care that will cause us the most problems.
I'll refer to my "responsible hunter" analogy again. A responsible hunter doesn't run around displaying his trophy for all, especially the anti, to see. The responsible hunter knows it is better to hide his firearm instead of displaying it in a rifle rack in his truck or to quickly clean his prize and keep it out of view of the anti.
This should be a "duh" moment for the OC crowd, but I anticipate argument to that issue. So how would you react to someone walking down the street carrying a samurai sword? Or perhaps someone driving a M1A down the street with live ammunition at their disposal? Sure it's extreme, but it's exactly the same thing with the only difference being you can hide your firearm.
I equate the "you do not OC therefore must not be truly for OC" stupidity (no offense to ANYONE) for exactly what it is, stupidity.
I have made no bones about my positions on felon carry either, I however am not a convicted felon and I am not going to go commit a crime just to prove to some internet junkie like myself I am "truly" for it.
Deciding some one is or isn't "for" anything from postings on internet forums is a big pile of stinky doo doo.
I do not OC much, told Doc I did not want to be in any more photo's with my gun uncovered because it was false, I had CCW to the event and the photo should indicate as much. I attended several events after that, some photos exist and I took the group photo as I was indeed the only one whom had NOT oc'd to and at the event.
My reasons for not openly carrying are none of anyone's business and have no impact what so ever on whether or not I think I or anyone else should have that CHOICE.
I do not eat peas but that does not mean I think no one should be allowed peas if they like them.
The whole logic based in the "your not for because" is the rantings of the clueless whom have no concept of what they are even talking about and it makes them look to lack intelligence as they talk out their butts.
Again this is not and was not targeted at anyone, it is my reception when someone sends the message "your not really for OC " which is why I was such a belligerent horses butt to cash50 after he said it to me.
I do OC some, I do not choose to advertise it when I do or publish photos etc and I do not think it takes balls, courage or whatever, it is an individual choice one makes and I support the right to make that choice without government interference with as much if not more intensity than I do CCW.
No one here can change that or doubt it at any level and those whom do know me in person know the truth, those whom know the internet forum moniker LMTD know what THEY might think about me, what I have allowed them to see, nothing more and nothing less. When folks choose to doubt others it is a form of scapegoating, they lack the self confidence within their own decisions that they feel compelled to tear others down so they may in some odd way feel superior all the while typically doing more or nothing at all to effectively strive for the goal they pump themselves up to be championing.
It really does not take much probing or baiting to identify these types, they are classic forum troll bait.
as usual, my unpopular opinion expressed, take it or leave it.
i mean he post the same way a lot that i already seen a pattern. it starts off stating that whatever the subject of this thread is a stupid idea. then it moves to saying that the OC crowd is geting ahead of themselves and should wait till you get a state wide premeption, and ends on saying they should conceal carry till then.i mean thats his opionion. and its fine. we all got opionions. but he does this to every post almost that he replies to, again minus the IDPA post that have nothing to do with OC.
i really think if he was truely here to help the OC cause. he wouldnt just have posts attacking and dissing OC. he either start some posts or comment on helping the OC cause. or even agree with a few peoples OC statements.
now i not saying anyone will agree with me on this then my original statement, but i do believe in this statement, and will stand behind it.
I know why he came here, he told me why he was going to join. Since I consider it his business and none of mine beyond the simple fact he decided to share, I am not going to reveal private conversations, I do not do that and you are indeed aware of this yourself.
You might want to reevaluate the criteria you used to come to the incorrect conclusion, or you do not have to, it is up to you.
Goalsetter said: "the only reason he made this account was to reply to an thread that was about him on here. had that not happened, i doubt he even be watching this website. he didnt join this site b/c he was interested in helping OC, he joined to defend himself, andi think he stays here thinking he can "educate" people."
This is the ONLY point my post above was addressing. That is NOT the reason he cam here was my only point and I know this factually and first hand.
Beyond that goalsetter has expressed his opinions and I would have to offer they are indeed 100% correct in his view, there is no doubt about that and since it is how he feels, there is no possible way to dispute it at all. If my previous post in some way indicated I might be trying to do that, it was an error and mistake in my communication style, I was speaking only to the reason for arrival.
hey doc thanks for your posts, i just want all of us here to work for the same goal, does not matter weather one carries ccw or openly i just want to have a good group of people to stand up for our firearm rights when we need it, group of people that can unite when our rights are being taken away.
this is the reason I am here and have made a open carry site on face book like the group in stl area to support our right.