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I dont get it/need help....

T

The Don

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Am I Free to Leave vs. Am I Under Arrest

paul@paul-fisher.com said:
Actually, I believe the correct question is 'am I free to leave'. That is basically asking if they have RAS. Am I under arrest is asking if they have PC. If they have RAS and you leave then I believe you can be charged with obstruction/resisting.

No matter if they have RAS or PC or walked in while you were doing an actual crime, you don't have to identify yourself.
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Just curious, would it make sense to first ask, "Am I under arrest?" and if the answer is "No", then follow that up with "Am I free to leave?"?

Or is that inviting trouble in some way?

If the officer says you're not free to leave, is it appropriate to ask what their RAS is, or is it better to just remain silent and/or ask for a lawyer?

Thanks.
 
D

Doug Huffman

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The Don said:
If the officer says you're not free to leave, is it appropriate to ask what their RAS is, or is it better to just remain silent and/or ask for a lawyer?
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It is at best useless to ask an officer his RAS because he is not legally bound to tell you the truth, or to argue his decision to you. RAS is between the officer, the DA and the judge.
 
Wisconsin Carry Inc. - Chairman

Wisconsin Carry Inc. - Chairman

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The Don said:
Just curious, would it make sense to first ask, "Am I under arrest?" and if the answer is "No", then follow that up with "Am I free to leave?"?

Or is that inviting trouble in some way?

If the officer says you're not free to leave, is it appropriate to ask what their RAS is, or is it better to just remain silent and/or ask for a lawyer?

Thanks.
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I've been told by a lawyer that they do not have to express to YOU what their RAS is.

It is appropriate to ask (I believe) because that lets the officer know that you are aware of your rights and that should put them on notice to be on their best behavior and be cognizant not to violate them.

Its semantics, but I wouldn't "ask" for a lawyer I'd just let them know that I don't intend to answer any questions without first speaking to a lawyer.
 
paul@paul-fisher.com

paul@paul-fisher.com

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The Don said:
Just curious, would it make sense to first ask, "Am I under arrest?" and if the answer is "No", then follow that up with "Am I free to leave?"?

Or is that inviting trouble in some way?

If the officer says you're not free to leave, is it appropriate to ask what their RAS is, or is it better to just remain silent and/or ask for a lawyer?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

As others have said, the LEO doesn't have to tell you his RAS. As soon as he says you are NOT free to go, he is detaining you and the Terry stop rules kick in. He has to either arrest you or allow you to leave within a 'reasonable' period of time and cannot 'take' you anywhere during the Terry stop. He has to investigate 'in the vicinity'.

Just because you are detained doesn't mean you will be arrested. Let's say that he has RAS because someone called in and said a person fitting your general description held up a liquor store. That can be RAS. Once he finishes his preliminary investigation, he either believes he has PC and arrests/cites you or he determines it's not you or he doesn't yet have PC, he must allow you to go on your way.

If you don't believe he had RAS, you would take him to court where the judge would determine if he did.

If for example, the call said 'a Caucasian male approximately 250 pounds missing his left arm' and you are an African American female with both arms and weighing 110, the judge would most likely tell the cop no RAS so you could bring a 4th amendment violation suit to bear.
 
X

xenophon

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paul@paul-fisher.com said:
As others have said, the LEO doesn't have to tell you his RAS. As soon as he says you are NOT free to go, he is detaining you and the Terry stop rules kick in. He has to either arrest you or allow you to leave within a 'reasonable' period of time and cannot 'take' you anywhere during the Terry stop. He has to investigate 'in the vicinity'.

Just because you are detained doesn't mean you will be arrested. Let's say that he has RAS because someone called in and said a person fitting your general description held up a liquor store. That can be RAS. Once he finishes his preliminary investigation, he either believes he has PC and arrests/cites you or he determines it's not you or he doesn't yet have PC, he must allow you to go on your way.

If you don't believe he had RAS, you would take him to court where the judge would determine if he did.

If for example, the call said 'a Caucasian male approximately 250 pounds missing his left arm' and you are an African American female with both arms and weighing 110, the judge would most likely tell the cop no RAS so you could bring a 4th amendment violation suit to bear.
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Good stuff here guys. And that's why "not talking" is to your benefit, because you could say something wrong or that you didn't mean to, that might give the officer PC. Just stay silent or comment that you'd rather speak with an attorney before you'd answer that. And stick with it.
 
paul@paul-fisher.com

paul@paul-fisher.com

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xenophon said:
Good stuff here guys. And that's why "not talking" is to your benefit, because you could say something wrong or that you didn't mean to, that might give the officer PC. Just stay silent or comment that you'd rather speak with an attorney before you'd answer that. And stick with it.
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With the latest SCOTUS ruling, you have to break your silence to invoke your right :banghead:
 
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