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Thread: A Dog Gone Shame

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    A Dog Gone Shame

    Here is a story from the Baltimore area about an off-duty police officer who shot and killed a dog that was in a fight with his at an off-lease dog park.

    http://dogs.about.com/b/2010/08/05/h...f-duty-cop.htm

    I only bring this to the forum because this could happen to any of us who carry. note the statement he used for a reason to shoot the dog, one heard commonly here.

    Read the article and judge for yourself whether he was in his rights to shoot the dog or not. I think the outcome is eye opening, and a tad in the realm of guilty by public opinion.

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    Dorothy Pearce, the homeowner's association manager, was appalled that someone would fire a gun in the community dog park — at dinnertime.
    LOL!

    Does anyone know who Bobbie Dooley is? She's president of the Western Estates Homeowner's Association. Sounds like something she would say . . . . at dinnertime! Why the nerve . . . .

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    Not enough information or solid facts to say whether or not the shooting was justified. As a dog lover myself, I would hate to be in that position. I am also reminded of all the people, including children, who have been mauled or killed by dogs. It's a judgement call, as is any other shooting; obviously the officer and his wife felt threatened.

    I was threatened by a dog running free as I was leaving a customer's house, about a week or so ago. The dog was growling and barking in a threatening manner as I was putting my things in my car. It was approximately 15 feet from me. I took my pepper spray out of my purse and had it in my hand. I decided that if it came any closer I would spray it in the face. If it actually attacked me, I would have shot it. Fortunately for both of us, it didn't. I carry my gun for self defense against a threat to my life or grave bodily injury and that includes the 4 legged variety.
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    Many of us have had to draw on dogs. Its for the same reason you draw on a person. Imminent danger of losing life or limb of one's self and/or family.

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    Quote Originally Posted by G20-IWB24/7 View Post
    Many of us have had to draw on dogs. Its for the same reason you draw on a person. Imminent danger of losing life or limb of one's self and/or family.

    I'm assuming you meant shoot a dog, not just draw on it. If you draw, you better shoot. A dog will not recognize the threat of a gun and back off. If you have drawn and not needed to fire, then you never needed to draw the gun in the first place.

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    My Lab that I hunted with knew, he would get out of the way if someone swept him with a muzzle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Logan80 View Post
    I'm assuming you meant shoot a dog, not just draw on it. If you draw, you better shoot. A dog will not recognize the threat of a gun and back off. If you have drawn and not needed to fire, then you never needed to draw the gun in the first place.
    Should probly' bring in some citations on "vicious dogs"...my attn'y friend says there is effectively a "one bite free" for dogs in WA, civil cases, etc....

    I've been confronted with unleashed dogs on trail and attacked once by a big German Shepard (before gun)...she lunged, I sidestepped and cold cocked her in the face, she retreated under the porch (she was defending) and the owner came out screamin' at me....

    Animals (dogs) are much harder to read....good assessment...pepper spray is a good idea.
    Last edited by jt59; 08-24-2010 at 12:15 AM.
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    Should probly' bring in some citations on "vicious dogs"...my attn'y friend says there is effectively a "one bite free" for dogs in WA, civil cases, etc....

    You should have your Attorney friend read RCW 16.08.040, 16.08.070, 16.08.080, 16.08.090, 16.08.100.
    Having been attacked and bitten by 2 pitbulls, while working in MY back yard, I can assure you there is NOT a one bite free in Wa.
    Was informed by Police, Animal Control and County Prosecutor, first bite, use a club, axe, shovel, anything you can get your hands on and kill the dog right then. Do not get your gun and come back and shoot.

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    A cop couldnt control his dog. Maybe. The other owners couldnt control there dog. "fact". Cop couldnt get dogs apart? WOW! Non lethal coulda been used here. Taser maybe? Just tase the dog and be on your way. Same if a guy was trying to swing at you and was landing some on your arm. Tase him, leave, call cops. Or in "bear-bears" (ha) case tase him, leave, call animal control.

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    More one sided reporting.
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    Thank you! He likes to argue (he is an attn'y...I'd love to get the best of him in a debate...'I'll read them first

    I'm with you, though, bad doggie= dead doggie.


    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Dr View Post
    Should probly' bring in some citations on "vicious dogs"...my attn'y friend says there is effectively a "one bite free" for dogs in WA, civil cases, etc....

    You should have your Attorney friend read RCW 16.08.040, 16.08.070, 16.08.080, 16.08.090, 16.08.100.
    Having been attacked and bitten by 2 pitbulls, while working in MY back yard, I can assure you there is NOT a one bite free in Wa.
    Was informed by Police, Animal Control and County Prosecutor, first bite, use a club, axe, shovel, anything you can get your hands on and kill the dog right then. Do not get your gun and come back and shoot.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Didi anybody read the comments on that story? Wow, a lot of ignorant people posting some really ridiculous stuff. The owner of the husky should have been in total control of their dog. I realize it was an off leash park, but that does not mean your dog runs free of your control. If your dog won't respond to your commands when off leash, then you don't need to be at an off leash park.
    What happened to taking responsibility for your actions and the outcome? Stuff like this drives me nuts, a dog is your responsibility as an owner it's actions will mimic your training. Now lots of the comment posters want this officer fired or arrested and paying fines for killing an uncontrolled dog. Craziness I say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by G20-IWB24/7 View Post
    Many of us have had to draw on dogs. Its for the same reason you draw on a person. Imminent danger of losing life or limb of one's self and/or family.
    I would be willing to draw on a dog before shooting it. If it was growling and in an attack mode, would you draw on it then? I would, though I would wait for it to move before shooting.

    Judgment call, and you can't know until you're in the situation, but I think that is what I would do. Same as a man with a knife on the other side of the room. I would draw, and shoot only if he advanced.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JUMPOFFBRIDGE89 View Post
    A cop couldnt control his dog. Maybe. The other owners couldn't control there dog. "fact". Cop couldnt get dogs apart? WOW! Non lethal coulda been used here. Taser maybe? Just tase the dog and be on your way. Same if a guy was trying to swing at you and was landing some on your arm. Tase him, leave, call cops. Or in "bear-bears" (ha) case tase him, leave, call animal control.
    We weren't there, we can't possibly know what happened or the behavioral actions of the dogs.
    Apparently, the dog attempted to bite the officer before turning back and attempting to bite his dog a second time. I have never heard of any officer carrying a taser off duty. I believe they are outlawed in many locations for normal people. As is many forms of pepper spray etc. So in your attempt of less lethal force, you possibly become a criminal.
    I have seen the lack of control many dog owners have. If an animal attacks me or my property, it will be self defense every time. I refuse to have my health or my livelihood in jeopardy because of an animal. If you think of the possibilities of a simple dog attack on a hand which is most likely. The bite rips or tears muscles or tendons, resulting in possibly thousands in medical bills, permanent lifelong damage, time for court dealings, loss of work, possible threat to family's stability. Sounds like a lot of liability to the dog owner. Ending the threat, is a much easier way. Animal control needs to be maintained at all times when the animal is around people. In the end, they are still wild animals, and accidents will happen. But I will always defend myself and anyone I care about.
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    Oh yah, love those comments sections. The guy that posted right before me wanted the cop's German shepherd killed for what the cop did.

    I posted that it's a damn good reason for oc spray. I carry both as I go to the dog park almost everyday. When all you've got is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Plus, in a real dog fight where it's just a big ball of chaos, I don't want to be accidentally shooting my own dog.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Logan80 View Post
    I'm assuming you meant shoot a dog, not just draw on it. If you draw, you better shoot. A dog will not recognize the threat of a gun and back off. If you have drawn and not needed to fire, then you never needed to draw the gun in the first place.
    I politely disagree. While walking with my wife and 2 kids (in a double stroller) I had an very large, aggressive dog come out of a screen door of the house we were passing and start coming towards me. I've owned dogs all of my life, so I can tell the difference between "attack mode" and "scare you away-mode" and this one was in attack mode. I squared off against the dog in the direction it was coming from and raised my left arm at a perpendicular to the ground, mid-chest high (to give him a target to chew on). As the dog covered the last few yards, still at a full sprint, I drew my concealed G22 and held it at waist level (retention position, and ready for a 'chest-shot' once he was on my arm). Once I drew his demeanor changed and he made a 180 about 2 feet from me. I was glad I didn't have to shoot because my kids were there and there were a couple of kids on the porch of the house that the dog came from. As the dog turned around the owner made it to the door and shouted at the dog, it ran back inside and the owner profusely apologized for the dog. I told her to make sure it doesn't get out anymore, "it almost got shot today."

    The dog recognized that I had prepared myself for a fight, and retreated. Dogs aren't as dumb as your comment suggests. Dogs can recognize a device in someone's hand, and if they are acting aggressively, they might be able to put two-and-two together and figure its something that may help the human fight.

    Maybe I didn't need to draw, but I did, and felt that I was ready to defend myself and my snout-high-seated kids from what could have been a deadly attack (especially for them). You weren't there, so I wouldn't be so quick to say what was necessary or not. I'd do the exact same thing given the same situation.

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    im kinda surprised!

    if the story really played as presented,,,
    why not draw on the fighting, and dangerous dogs,
    and smack the offender on the noggin, with your gun???
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