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Jury Duty

smellslikemichigan

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
2,307
Location
Troy, Michigan, USA
+1


Warchild,

I cannot imagine there would not be such a law, even if only implied in the law that requires you to respond to the summons to jury duty. Allowing someone to not participate in the jury room kinda nullifies the whole reason for requiring someone to respond to the summons in the first place.

If you have a conscientious objection to serving on a jury at all, you might just tell the judge.

If you object to someone being prosecuted for an unjust law, there is a very old jury power judges will try to hide from you. It is called jury nullification--voting to exonerate even though the defendant broke the law because the law is unjust. If something like this might be your objection, you can read up below.

1. An Essay on the Trial by Jury Lysander Spooner 1852. Read Section I. Trust me, if you read Section I you will know far more about the powers and purpose of a jury than 98% of the population, and far more than many judges would be comfortable you knowing.

http://lysanderspooner.org/node/35

2. FIJA (Fully Informed Jury Association) website. http://fija.org/ By the way, one of the contributors to the documents on this website is none other than Professor James Duane of Regent University Law School--the law professor who gives the youtube talk about not talking to police.

3. Article on Jury Nullification: http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig10/emal1.1.1.html

i was about to post fija, i'm glad i saw yours first. i like the idea of nullification.
however, warchild, i agree with your opinion of the justice system.
here is an example of how things are stacked against defendants:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZyWlHvA-iw
 
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VW_Factor

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2010
Messages
1,092
Location
Leesburg, GA
With the current corruption in the system the jury does not always get the complete facts of the case. Some through the "legal" omission of pertinent facts that may have had an effect on the juror's decision.
So no, a jury does not always mean that justice is served.

+1

I have a hard time accepting that we as citizens can be forced to participate in the sham of our legal system, when the jury is refused ALL of the facts in a case brought forth against another citizen.
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
The problem with juries is that the lawyers get to pick them. If it was indeed a random sample of ones peers, then perhaps it would be more fair. And peers as it was intended mean just that. People like the accused. You were supposed to know the accused, live in their town, know their family, etc. If they were college educated they got college educated jurors. If the were working class laborers the jury would be made up of the same. If you were white and male the jury was suppose to be the same. But that is not the case

Lawyers want, dumb, uninformed, passive people to serve as jurors, because they can manipulate them.

I suspect I will never be picked, too much formal education, to informed on the laws and legal system, etc.... I would love to serve, but I suspect I will never get the chance.
 

Haman J.T.

New member
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
1,245
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I don't know why people on here don't write the legislature, those letters could be more relevant in changing an issue than your vote would be.
Most people do not know that letters,emails and phone calls to their legislators is equivilant to voting on every bill! Thats more powerfull than just voting in the election! You can do all three on each bill!
 
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WARCHILD

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
1,768
Location
Corunna, Michigan, USA
Being the acute cynical anti govt that I am;
How sure are you (or anyone) that your reps even read them? How can you "know" they have been read by the rep and not "screened" by an intern or scribe that might just provide an "overview" of the subject sent if at all?

JMO
 

Haman J.T.

New member
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Feb 5, 2008
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Being the acute cynical anti govt that I am;
How sure are you (or anyone) that your reps even read them? How can you "know" they have been read by the rep and not "screened" by an intern or scribe that might just provide an "overview" of the subject sent if at all?

JMO
Many years ago I read info from a credible source,that legislators keep tally of these contacts by the voters and multiply each one by 1000(votes in the next election).That was eough to convince me.Considering the majority of voters(and people I know) do not contact their legislators ever,thats the reason grassroots orgs always ask people to call,write or email to influence them.If they have enough folks tallied x 1000,and the amount is enough to get them out in the next election,thats what will change their minds.Thats why my legislators(all Dems) keep getting re-elected due to the extreme apathy in this state.But I will not give up doing what is right! This is still the greatest nation on earth,it's just that all the good people are not pulling their weight due to apathy! I do the best I can to do whats right no matter how little it may be to fight the evil thats going on. We are the salt of the earth,keeping it from rotting outright!CARRY ON!
 

WARCHILD

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
1,768
Location
Corunna, Michigan, USA
Okay I can go along with that. I have and do email my reps much more often since I became "aware" of the sleeping nation of apathy.
I was just voicing my curiosity of weather they read them or not truthfully.
 

Haman J.T.

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Okay I can go along with that. I have and do email my reps much more often since I became "aware" of the sleeping nation of apathy.
I was just voicing my curiosity of weather they read them or not truthfully.
Someone reads em.I always get replies.Of course if Levin Stabenow & Levin were to get thousands of contacts like mine,I believe they might fear us enough to change their actions.I do believe they just ignore me though,but until gunowners apathy ends(I believe they have to be shocked somehow),I will CARRY ON! The judicial system is just as aggrivating to me as the government is,but I will not quit!There's always Hope(earnest expectancy) in what is right! I even "FEEL BETTER" when I do whats RIGHT(like defending my RIGHTS)! CARRY ON BROTHER!
 

Shadow Bear

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Dec 17, 2010
Messages
1,004
Location
Grand Rapids
The problem with juries is that the lawyers get to pick them. If it was indeed a random sample of ones peers, then perhaps it would be more fair. And peers as it was intended mean just that. People like the accused. You were supposed to know the accused, live in their town, know their family, etc. If they were college educated they got college educated jurors. If the were working class laborers the jury would be made up of the same. If you were white and male the jury was suppose to be the same. But that is not the case

Lawyers want, dumb, uninformed, passive people to serve as jurors, because they can manipulate them.

I suspect I will never be picked, too much formal education, to informed on the laws and legal system, etc.... I would love to serve, but I suspect I will never get the chance.

I was recently on a jury on a federal case. Many of the jurors were well educated teachers & professionals. The ones that got passed over seemed to be the least educated. The judge did not give much leeway to the lawyers- the could only reject someone for reasonable cause, with the exception of a limited number they could reject for no reason.

The defense lawyers got a little excited when they found out that I worked as an intelligence analyst for a major corporation; they thought I was in law enforcement!

How much education would it take to be eliminated?

The deliberations were quite thoughtful, with great attention payed to both the letter of the law and the evidence.

I would do it again in a minute. God help anyone in the system that ends up facing a judge alone. Oh, wait, they never do anything stupid, do they?
 

JoeSparky

Centurion
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,621
Location
Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
Being the acute cynical anti govt that I am;
How sure are you (or anyone) that your reps even read them? How can you "know" they have been read by the rep and not "screened" by an intern or scribe that might just provide an "overview" of the subject sent if at all?

JMO

and if you never communicate with them you guarantee that they won't have your input!
 

Tucker6900

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
1,279
Location
Iowa, USA
Just do what this guy did.....

Do you think he got out of it?
 

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VW_Factor

Regular Member
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Nov 1, 2010
Messages
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Location
Leesburg, GA
Do you think he got out of it?

haha..

Yeah, I dunno if that got him out of anything. I feel about the same though as far as the "undue hardship".

If I had to miss work, it would seriously throw off my finances. My wife loathes pulling money out of our savings, and would hate to do it for something like one of us having to serve on a jury.

When the State can compensate us to not create such a hardship, I don't think I would mind that much.
 

Shadow Bear

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Dec 17, 2010
Messages
1,004
Location
Grand Rapids
haha..

Yeah, I dunno if that got him out of anything. I feel about the same though as far as the "undue hardship".

If I had to miss work, it would seriously throw off my finances. My wife loathes pulling money out of our savings, and would hate to do it for something like one of us having to serve on a jury.

When the State can compensate us to not create such a hardship, I don't think I would mind that much.

It didn't work for one guy in our pool. He cried every story he could- judge didn't cut him any slack. One of the defense attornies finally used one on his 'free picks' and sent him packing, but not before he embarassed himself in front of 100 people.
 

Shadow Bear

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Dec 17, 2010
Messages
1,004
Location
Grand Rapids
What's that old joke about not wanting to be judged by a group of people that are not smart enough to get out of jury duty....

Yeah, I told that back in our jury room. Personally, I wanted to be there- it was one of the most interesting experiences I've had. Two weeks of testimony, dozens of pieces of evidence, 20+ witnesses, and guns.

What was amazing was, the guns were supplied by one person (already with multiple felonies), who would deliver them just prior to the robbery, and took them back immediately after. One schmuck decided to freelance using a BB gun. He's the one that brought the entire conspiracy down- he went to rob one store, chickened out, and went across the street to rob another. In between, he took his gloves off. One fingerprint inside a cash drawer put half a dozen people in prison for a verrry long time.

Also amazing; the weapons were crap- I wouldn't risked my life with them. One Tec 9, one ancient 32 snubby revolver missing most of its finish, a single action 22, chrome or stainless with about a 6 inch barrel.
 

Badger Johnson

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Messages
1,213
Location
USA
I once served on a jury where they were trying to sentence this guy for stealing a woman's purse out of her car. She was in a crime-area to buy narcotics and she spent her money and then made up this story to keep her pimp boyfriend from beating her.

They had absolutely NO evidence on this pure black dude who she picked out of a line up with no other witnesses. No prints, photos, ID, witnesses, trace and he had a reasonable alibi.

I told the others in deliberations - 'just show me one bit of evidence he was there, let alone did the purse snatching'. They couldn't cite anything and the prosecutor just said stuff like 'I think he did it'. It was ludicrous.

I was lucky, in that I convinced the others and we let this guy walk as he should have and we only spent about an hour.

If I hadn't been there - and I wasn't that thrilled - the guy would have gone to jail.
 
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