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Thread: Open Carry at Riverfest WEBN Fireworks. Whats your guess???

  1. #1
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    Red face Open Carry at Riverfest WEBN Fireworks. Whats your guess???

    I live right across the river in Erlanger. As close to the airport as I can for my job.
    I used to live in Clifton, and I am curious if anyone is willing to take a guess on Open Carry during the WEBN fireworks during Riverfest this this year.

    I'm undecided as to which side of the river I'm gonna sit on, but either way I plan to OC. Just curious if anyone else was planning to do the same, or if there is enough worry of being intimidated into leaving, or actually hassled by LEO's that you are considering not carrying at all.

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    WEBN's website says "No weapons of any kind" at the fireworks. Of course they don't own the park and other public land along the Ohio River. I would surmise that open carry may get you escorted away at best, and perhaps even arrested** for "inducing panic", or illegally being in possession of a firearm, on the Ohio side at least.

    I believe that open carriers on the Kentucky side have had less problems in this regard. Also there is precedent for open carry being deemed as legal at the similar "Thunder Over Louisville" event held each year. Pretty sure there are threads on that topic in the Ky. subforum.

    **While an inducing panic arrest would be quite bogus, it likely wouldn't keep the arrest from occuring, unless you happened to be in the company of a well known defense attorney at the time or something.

    With regards to Cincinnati parks, they still have some of them posted with 'No Guns' signage, in spite of the fact that this defies current statewide pre-emption of such rules.

    Bottom line for me would be to carry concealed in this case, partially because I have a CHL, and partially because I have no desire to OC anyplace that has elbow-to-elbow attendance. But it's a moot point, I don't get anywhere near that whole gathering, it's just too much hassle to get out afterwards.

    EDIT: Also, I'd do my carrying on the Kentucky side of the river, it seems that most LEOs on that side at least know what 'statewide pre-emption' actually means.
    Last edited by Brian D.; 08-26-2010 at 11:58 AM.

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    Recommend Devou park. It has some great spots to watch the fireworks and no cop in KY will give you a hassle. They know the rules. Just stay away from the Levy.....they are completely anti-OC and ant 2nd amendment. The security there also tends to get very nervous even if they found out someone was CCing, let alone OC. But, in public parks and many other businesses you should be fine.

    I really think OCrs in the Cincinnati area should write the Levy and try to get them to reverse this policy. I sent them a few emails earlier this year. It's a very nice place to visit, but contrary to their claim, it is not immune from violence (mostly due to drunken wanna be gangsters from the Cincinnati over the rhine area...or clifton).

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    Trooper, I haven't been to Devou Park for a few months, but believe it or not at that time I saw some anti-gun signage there, put up by the park commisssion. The gist of it was so out-of-compliance with Ky. state law I was mildly tempted to go find the chief ranger and citizen's arrest him/her for gross stupidity or treasonous acts against the state, or something.

    No idea where that stands now, I have enough to do keeping the 'burgs on my side of the river compliant with Ohio state law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian D. View Post
    Trooper, I haven't been to Devou Park for a few months, but believe it or not at that time I saw some anti-gun signage there, put up by the park commisssion. The gist of it was so out-of-compliance with Ky. state law I was mildly tempted to go find the chief ranger and citizen's arrest him/her for gross stupidity or treasonous acts against the state, or something.

    No idea where that stands now, I have enough to do keeping the 'burgs on my side of the river compliant with Ohio state law.
    Hmm...will have to make a visit there when I get back. Even if that's true, I wouldn't give them a second glance. Signs in KY don't mean s*** legally. It's very unlikely that someone is even enforcing that park ordinance because it is illegal. A number of parks are still "catching up" with obeying the law. But thats only on the books, realistically I can't see a LEO or Ranger enforcing those. If they were to...you would have full grounds for a law suit for illegal detainment etc. because the ordinance is completely illegal.

    Still, I never had a problem OCin there before I left and have yet to be harassed by any KY police who have seen me carrying. The Cincinnati police on the other hand, are well known and reputable as being pricks to the max.

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    I don't know if you remember, but, in 1999 a gentleman jogging in Devou Park was stopped by a robber at gunpoint. He shot the robber with his weapon and killed him. No charges were brought. I carry at Devou Park and no one has said anything. It's unfortunate that the Cincinnati Police have to bother you on that side of the river when it's perfectly legal to open carry there. Come on over, spend your money here, we can use the tax dollars.
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    Hotrod I recall the Devou Park story, it was a jogger from the area who the bad guy attempted to mug. Didn't think the hoodlum died though, as memory serves the good guy employed a .25 acp handgun.

    Unimportant detail for us now though, that incident sort of removed doubt from the minds of many around northern Ky. who had been on the fence or against concealed carry at the beginning.

    Believe me my meager entertainment dollars are often spent on the Kentucky side...for heaven's sake I'm a cigar enthusianado, can hardly light up in Ohio these days!

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    Regular Member hotrod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian D. View Post
    Hotrod I recall the Devou Park story, it was a jogger from the area who the bad guy attempted to mug. Didn't think the hoodlum died though, as memory serves the good guy employed a .25 acp handgun.

    Unimportant detail for us now though, that incident sort of removed doubt from the minds of many around northern Ky. who had been on the fence or against concealed carry at the beginning.

    Believe me my meager entertainment dollars are often spent on the Kentucky side...for heaven's sake I'm a cigar enthusianado, can hardly light up in Ohio these days!



    Armed citizen proves value of Kentucky's new concealed-carry law

    August 20, 1999

    © 1999 Kentucky Post
    Michael Collins and Peggy Kreimer, Post staff reporters

    FRANKFORT - A man who pulled a gun out of his pocket and shot a would-be
    robber in Covington's Devou Park early Thursday morning showed that Kentucky's concealed-carry law is doing what it's supposed to do, said the statute's chief proponent.

    ''That's what the law was intended to do: Let a legal
    citizen protect himself,'' said state Rep. Bob Damron, D-Nicholasville.

    More than 51,000 Kentuckians have obtained permits to carry hidden
    weapons in the three years since the state's concealed-carry law took
    effect.

    More permits may be issued after the Devou Park shooting, Kenton County Sheriff Charles Korzenborn predicted. He expects the public to view it as an
    example of the protection that carrying your own gun provides. Already, 160
    people have applied in the county for permits this year.

    ''People have not only a right but a responsibility to take care of themselves,'' said Korzenborn, who administers the permits in Kenton County.

    ''If you rely on the police to do everything, you would need one policeman for
    every person.''

    Retired Cinergy worker Joe Megerle, 57, of Covington, was walking in Devou Park
    when a man approached him, drew a pistol and demanded money. Megerle
    pulled out his .25-caliber pistol and shot Jamie Kennedy, 27, of Covington,
    in the chest and head. Kennedy is in serious condition at University Hospital in Cincinnati.

    Kennedy is charged with attempted robbery, and a charge of attempted murder
    might be added to that, Covington Assistant Police Chief Bill Dorsey said. A man and a woman who were in the car with him have been questioned but no charges have been filed against either.

    No evidence turned up in a police search of a room at the Days Inn in Fort Wright, Dorsey said. The search was connected to the shooting, police have said.

    Police say Kennedy's pistol was not loaded, but that doesn't affect the seriousness of his actions, Dorsey said. Megerle believed his life was in danger, and he acted correctly when he shot to save his life, Dorsey said. Megerle has a permit to
    carry a concealed weapon.

    ''In that situation, it was the right thing to do,'' Dorsey said.

    Megerle's father, also named Joe, was Covington's assistant police chief when
    he retired about 1970.

    Dorsey said the Devou Park confrontation is believed to be the first time someone
    with a permit to carry a concealed weapon used the weapon in Northern Kentucky since the state law was passed in 1996.

    But it wasn't the first such self-defense shooting statewide. Damron, who pushed the concealed-carry law through the General Assembly, said several similar instances have been recorded across the state.

    In Bowling Green, a woman who had just gotten a concealed-weapon permit and completed the required firearms-safety course shot a man who broke into her house. The woman later said she would have been unable to defend herself had she not taken the gun-safety course, Damron said.

    Critics argued that enacting the law could lead to an increase in violence and vigilantism. But Damron said he wasn't aware of any case in which charges have
    been filed against a concealed-carry permit holder.

    The 51,482 people who have permits to carry concealed weapons have acted
    responsibly, Damron said.

    ''I'd match those people's criminal record against any other group in the state,'' he
    said. ''They are showing that you can trust law-abiding citizens who actually own
    and keep firearms.''

    Dorsey agreed, even though at the time the law was being considered police had
    reservations about it, fearing it would prompt a rash of irresponsible gun use.

    ''I follow this. I've been waiting for the first one,'' Dorsey said. ''This is it, and this man did the right thing.''

    But state Rep. Jim Callahan, a Wilder Democrat who opposes the concealed-carry
    law, said Thursday's shooting illustrates the danger of giving people greater access to guns.

    ''My district is a heavily urbanized area. The last thing we need is more guns in the hands of people who are out on the streets,'' said Callahan, who voted against the law three years ago. ''I still have concerns.''

    Callahan said he understood that people have a right to protect themselves. But he
    said he feared that putting more guns on the streets would lead to more shootings.

    Keep buying cigars and eating over here. Maybe my taxes will go down.
    Speed is fine
    Accuracy is final

  9. #9
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    That time of year again is anybody going.
    What about in the past?

    Mike

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian D. View Post
    WEBN's website says "No weapons of any kind" at the fireworks....
    http://www.webn.com/pages/fwx.html?f...rticle=8754024

    I just called Justin Tabas (presumably at WEBN) at 513-686-8590. I asked him "Under what law are you able to ban 'weapons of any kind' at the fireworks?

    He informed me that they were renting Yeatman's Cove & Sawyer Point, and that there would be designated entry areas, as well as delineated boundries around "their" area. By virtue of their rental he asserted that WEBN could set their own rules.


    Quote Originally Posted by Brian D. View Post
    ...Of course they don't own the park and other public land along the Ohio River. I would surmise that open carry may get you escorted away at best, and perhaps even arrested** for "inducing panic", or illegally being in possession of a firearm, on the Ohio side at least...
    If the Cincinnati Police Department attempts to do that outside of the area that WEBN seems to temporarily "own", CPD would run afoul of their own policy:

    (item #3, Cincinnati Police Staff Notes, July 3, 2012)
    http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/police/...F0/showMeta/0/
    Last edited by BB62; 08-30-2012 at 07:18 AM. Reason: I was informed that the original link no longer worked

  11. #11
    Regular Member Chris 45LC's Avatar
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    Hmmm...so WEBN is anti gun and puts up No Gun signs....GLAD I LISTEN TO WOBO!

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    I have OCd at the fireworks twice in years past, and seen others doing so. However, that was all on the KY side of the creek. Being with family, the Ky side was generally more appropriate anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    (item #3, Cincinnati Police Staff Notes, July 3, 2012)
    http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/police/...e_pdf46045.pdf
    The pdf is gone. Do you have a different link? Or, email it to me. I would like to include it in the Ohio OC Packet that is on my web site.

  14. #14
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    A friend of mine informed me that the link no longer worked.

    Here is the new link:
    http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/police/...F0/showMeta/0/

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    A friend of mine informed me that the link no longer worked.

    Here is the new link:
    http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/police/...F0/showMeta/0/


    After reading this I may do a walk in down town tomorrow.
    With a copy in my pocket

    Mike

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    Guess I should expect to see this thread rejuvenated from year to year. It's lately struck me as hypocritical on the part of WEBN/Clear Channel to have these anti-firearm rules at the festival, seeing as so many of the company's on-air talk hosts (locally and at sister stations across the country) tout such a big pro-2nd Amendment stance. Of course my understanding is that the Clear Channel broadcast facilities themselves are posted as criminal protection zones for both employees and visitors.

    Not to defend this practice but I wonder if Clear Channel just abandons their for-public-consumption 2A ideals because they can't get insurance coverage for the festival without the 'No guns allowed' rule?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    http://www.webn.com/pages/fwx.html?f...rticle=8754024

    I just called Justin Tabas (presumably at WEBN) at 513-686-8590. I asked him "Under what law are you able to ban 'weapons of any kind' at the fireworks?

    He informed me that they were renting Yeatman's Cove & Sawyer Point, and that there would be designated entry areas, as well as delineated boundries around "their" area. By virtue of their rental he asserted that WEBN could set their own rules.



    If the Cincinnati Police Department attempts to do that outside of the area that WEBN seems to temporarily "own", CPD would run afoul of their own policy:

    (item #3, Cincinnati Police Staff Notes, July 3, 2012)
    http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/police/...F0/showMeta/0/
    I don't see how "renting" the park changes anything.
    That the same as saying if I rent a picnick area at a park then I can set rules for that park that goes aganst state law!
    The park is still city owned.
    What would they arrest you for trustpassing when anyother day the police couldn't even stop you.
    Not to say the police wouldn't

    Mike

  18. #18
    Regular Member Chris 45LC's Avatar
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    If a business rents a building, they can put up no gun signs. Renting a park must entitle the renter the same in regard to no gun signs, A renter can probably prohibit whatever they want...Don't know...never rented a park.

    According to their site, they will be checking everyone that enters for prohibited items. Therefore, they won't arrest you because you won't even get into those areas at all OCing.

    WEBN has a list of prohibited items besides firearms.
    Alcoholic beverages brought into the event
    Weapons of any type
    Wheeled items -skateboards, bicycles, scooters, rollerblades, etc.
    Large items such as a grill, couch, or other household furnishings
    Pets
    Coolers
    Liquids

    What happened to "do not patronize business' that display no gun signs"? It's going to rain. Stay at home, wear your gun and watch the fireworks on TV. Then call or write WEBN and tell them that you don't approve of the no gun policy for the fireworks and that WOBO plays better music anyway.
    Colt Single Action Army - The original point and click interface.

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    (3) (a) Except as provided in division©(3)(b) of this section, the owner or person in control of private land or premises, and a private person or entity leasing land or premises owned by the state, the United States, or a political subdivision of the state or the United States, may post a sign in a conspicuous location on that land or on those premises prohibiting persons from carrying firearms or concealed firearms on or onto that land or those premises.
    http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.126

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris 45LC View Post
    What happened to "do not patronize business' that display no gun signs"? It's going to rain. Stay at home, wear your gun and watch the fireworks on TV. Then call or write WEBN and tell them that you don't approve of the no gun policy for the fireworks and that WOBO plays better music anyway.
    Good point(s). If someone is feeling really motivated they could also contact all the sponsors of the event and state that due to the anti-2A stance shown by WEBN/Clear Channel they are going to boycott those companies' products as well.

    I'm sort of tongue-in-cheek about that rabid level of boycotting by the way...there are some big, far-reaching outfits which help sponsor the fireworks and festival. Not sure I could completely detach myself from say Cincinnati Bell and Kroger's, to name a couple.

    It's enough that I dread dealing with such huge crowds, and being disarmed to boot, that will provide ample motivation for me to avoid the whole shebang, same as I've done for several years now.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by RT48 View Post
    3) (a) Except as provided in division©(3)(b) of this section, the owner or person in control of private land or premises, and a private person or entity leasing land or premises owned by the state, the United States, or a political subdivision of the state or the United States, may post a sign in a conspicuous location on that land or on those premises prohibiting persons from carrying firearms or concealed firearms on or onto that land or those premises.
    http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.126
    I think you're onto something there. Note the use of LEASING land or premises. I know someone who would be willing to explore what type of "lease" (cough cough) WEBN has arranged.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Chris 45LC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RT48 View Post
    That's the answer. WEBN is an intity leasing land from a subdivision of the state and by law has the right to post no guns. 2923.126 does not specify type of lease. Therefore it probably wouldn't matter. As Justin told BB62 on the phone, "By virtue of their rental he asserted that WEBN could set their own rules." This sounds like the no gun signs are WEBN's own policy. I'm sure WEBN hired lawyers to advise them of what rules they can and can not post on leased property.

    WEBN has the right to post no gun signs and we have the right not to patronize.
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    I've tried calling in to a couple of WEBN's sister stations to talk about the firearm prohibition during the event, but the call screeners hang up when I tell them my chosen topic. Clear Channel's management and on-air staff will berate/satirize any governmental, business, scholastic or religious organization they feel is wrong about something, but seemingly they won't engage in constructive conversation about their own shortcomings, certainly not over the airwaves.

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