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Thread: One reason I hesitate to Open Carry

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    One reason I hesitate to Open Carry

    I have a couple of worries that have always kept me from open carrying as a Richmond City resident (I live just outside of the fan). For one, I feel that it could bring more attention to me from the bad guys. While it may deter many, I know there are some crazy ones out there that want to prove they are the hardest. Its just like when people in highschool knew I had a black belt they would try to talk **** about how they could still beat me up. Of course, I never gave in, but if someone did this with a gun it would leave me no choice.

    Second, I don't want the bad guys to see where I live while carrying when I come home. They would obviously think they could case the place until I left one day, and break in hoping to find some other guns. Regardless if they found them or not, I don't want someone breaking in for that reason. What if they thought no one was there, but my girlfriend is sleeping in late or something.

    I also don't want friends' friends asking me to see it etc. I just want to avoid that altogether because there are some stupid people in this area that somehow randomly end up hanging out with us sometimes. Usually, I would leave in that situation, but still. I just don't want any other people knowing my business about it I guess. I have almost always concealed carry because of these reasons. What do you guys think, and why don't you worry about this stuff?

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    It doesn't matter what I think.
    It looks like you want someone to talk you into OC.

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    I thought you were only going to give us one reason why you hesitate to open carry. I'm guessing you don't drive an invisible car that someone might want to see, or even steal. I'd dare say you might even have someone pull up next to your vehicle and want to race on occasion just because they think their vehicle is faster or quicker. Do you hide all of your possessions such that no one compares what they have to yours or has a desire to steal them? If you don't magically conceal all of your possessions for fear of theft or comparison or even mere viewing what exactly is your issue with carrying a basic tool for others to see?

    BTW do you let other people know you have a girlfriend? If so aren't you afraid someone else might see her and try to woo her from you or take her by force?

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    Some Thoughts...

    Quote Originally Posted by bellbw View Post
    I have a couple of worries that have always kept me from open carrying as a Richmond City resident (I live just outside of the fan). For one, I feel that it could bring more attention to me from the bad guys. While it may deter many, I know there are some crazy ones out there that want to prove they are the hardest. Its just like when people in highschool knew I had a black belt they would try to talk **** about how they could still beat me up. Of course, I never gave in, but if someone did this with a gun it would leave me no choice.

    Second, I don't want the bad guys to see where I live while carrying when I come home. They would obviously think they could case the place until I left one day, and break in hoping to find some other guns. Regardless if they found them or not, I don't want someone breaking in for that reason. What if they thought no one was there, but my girlfriend is sleeping in late or something.

    I also don't want friends' friends asking me to see it etc. I just want to avoid that altogether because there are some stupid people in this area that somehow randomly end up hanging out with us sometimes. Usually, I would leave in that situation, but still. I just don't want any other people knowing my business about it I guess. I have almost always concealed carry because of these reasons. What do you guys think, and why don't you worry about this stuff?
    First of all, I am 62 so I don't look like someone going around itching for a fight; and I don't go into areas frequented by bad guys...unless I have to. Therefore, I don't believe that bad guys are paying much attention to me and if they are, hopefully they will see me as someone not to mess with.

    Secondly, I live in a neighborhood where we all kind of look out for one another. Break ins are rare and the one that did occur a few years ago turned out to be an inside job. The guy's daughter was hanging around with drug dealers and let them have access to his garage. Further, I keep all my guns locked up. I am not sure what kind of neighborhood you live in; that could be influencing your perceptions.

    As for people wanting to see it, I have one hard and fast rule: "IT NEVER COMES OUT OF IT'S HOLSTER UNLESS IT IS ABSOLUTELY NEEDED!!" I have made that well known so nobody asks.

    Whenever I run into friends and they comment on my carrying a weapon, I usually make a short response then change the subject. In every case they say: "Good for you! I wish more people would do that." More often than not, we will spend time talking about old times; laughing and joking; everything normal...except I have a gun. In a sense, this "normalizes" open carrying and is "good for the cause." I have done this in Lowes, Home Depot, Pitkins, Wegmans, Safeway...etc.

    Don't leave and don't be ashamed of it...you have nothing to apologize for!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bellbw View Post
    I have a couple of worries that have always kept me from open carrying as a Richmond City resident (I live just outside of the fan). For one, I feel that it could bring more attention to me from the bad guys. While it may deter many, I know there are some crazy ones out there that want to prove they are the hardest. Its just like when people in highschool knew I had a black belt they would try to talk **** about how they could still beat me up. Of course, I never gave in, but if someone did this with a gun it would leave me no choice.

    Second, I don't want the bad guys to see where I live while carrying when I come home. They would obviously think they could case the place until I left one day, and break in hoping to find some other guns. Regardless if they found them or not, I don't want someone breaking in for that reason. What if they thought no one was there, but my girlfriend is sleeping in late or something.

    I also don't want friends' friends asking me to see it etc. I just want to avoid that altogether because there are some stupid people in this area that somehow randomly end up hanging out with us sometimes. Usually, I would leave in that situation, but still. I just don't want any other people knowing my business about it I guess. I have almost always concealed carry because of these reasons. What do you guys think, and why don't you worry about this stuff?
    You are word for word quoting invalid and imaginary reasons why OC should be banned. These are the same reasons that people on Concealed carry forums and Anti's use for why OC is a bad idea.

    At some point hopefully you will realize that the real world is NOT like high school and that criminals by their very nature are lazy and looking for the easiest score.

    If by chance some idiot attempts to confront you while you are carrying, chances are they're desperate attempting to perform "suicide by carrier" which is akin to worrying about getting struck by lightning on a sunny day.

    IMO I think you are a CCW forum member who is looking to stir up some arguments on opencarry.org... just my opinion though..

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    Quote Originally Posted by bellbw View Post
    I have a couple of worries that have always kept me from open carrying as a Richmond City resident (I live just outside of the fan). For one, I feel that it could bring more attention to me from the bad guys. While it may deter many, I know there are some crazy ones out there that want to prove they are the hardest. Its just like when people in highschool knew I had a black belt they would try to talk **** about how they could still beat me up. Of course, I never gave in, but if someone did this with a gun it would leave me no choice.

    Second, I don't want the bad guys to see where I live while carrying when I come home. They would obviously think they could case the place until I left one day, and break in hoping to find some other guns. Regardless if they found them or not, I don't want someone breaking in for that reason. What if they thought no one was there, but my girlfriend is sleeping in late or something.

    I also don't want friends' friends asking me to see it etc. I just want to avoid that altogether because there are some stupid people in this area that somehow randomly end up hanging out with us sometimes. Usually, I would leave in that situation, but still. I just don't want any other people knowing my business about it I guess. I have almost always concealed carry because of these reasons. What do you guys think, and why don't you worry about this stuff?
    Then don't OC. It sounds like CC is more fitting for you due to the reasons you stated and there's nothing wrong with that.
    Last edited by nova; 08-26-2010 at 11:26 AM.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    I'm going to repeat what just about everyone else has said about the reasons you have given for not wanting to OC.

    But then I'm going to go one, or maybe two, steps further. I'm issuing an open invitation for you to attend any of the Saturday Richmond OC breakfasts (look for the one this Saturday 8/28 - just announced), or the Richmond OC dinners (September date/location TBA). You show up and introduce yourself before the meal to the short, fat, bearded ancient guy who looks like Santa Claus with a bad attitude and I'll buy your debut appearance meal.

    When you attend one of the OC events you will have a chance to talk out your concerns with others who probably had many similar thoughts when they started to think about OCing. I will tell you that you have mentioned a few that I had. As they say, experience is a great teacher, but it's hard to get experience until you have gotten some.

    Hope to see you soon.

    stay safe.

  8. #8
    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    First, I don't get the impression that you're anti-OC or a CC forum member trying to start an argument. However, keep in mind that it does happen and try not to take offense.

    Now, I'll try to address your concerns individually. I OC in NC, but it seems like your concerns aren't location-specific.

    1. BG confrontation due to OC: I saw someone post elsewhere on this forum that the imagination creates much more dangerous scenarios than actually happen in reality. I know of no case where this has happened. If you do, let us know.

    2. I don't live in an area with BGs around my house. If I see a car that has been following me since the last area I was out of my car and OCing, I would not drive home. I would drive to a police station. Your situational awareness must be increased when OCing if it is not already high. You should not be running any higher risk of a break-in at home regardless of whether or not you OC. Furthermore, consider getting a gun safe, or saving for one if it is not financially possible at the time.

    3. If they want to see it, I almost always say no. The only time I would consider saying yes is in a private, controlled environment. I do take friends shooting some, and I would likely invite them to go along the next time I go. I'm also happy to answer any questions about it.

    Hope this helps.

  9. #9
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    I think that your thoughts and hesitations are reasonable and normal. OC is not everyone's cup of tea. Whatever way you feel like carrying is up to you. The point is, carry! Carry openly, carry concealed....wear it on top of your head, whatever .

    Just have it with you when you need it and train with it to become proficient.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
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    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    Then don't OC. It sounds like CC is more fitting for you due to the reasons you stated and there's nothing wrong with that.
    I agree

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    While this is a OC forum, it is OK to CC as it meets your environment.

    If you are worried about people seeing you coming and going into your house, CC when you go out of your house and OC once in the car or away from the house. When you return home switch from OC to CC before getting out of the car.

    There are cheap gun lockers and gun safes that can be bolted to the floor or walls. I got one for about $100 for home and a small one for the car since I don't have a trunk.

    I personally think you are over thinking it but you are the one that has to be comfortable with your mode of carry. Take Skidmark up on his offer for a meal, he never offered me one. :-) He did "give" me some holsters though.

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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    I think that your thoughts and hesitations are reasonable and normal. OC is not everyone's cup of tea. Whatever way you feel like carrying is up to you. The point is, carry! Carry openly, carry concealed....wear it on top of your head, whatever .

    Just have it with you when you need it and train with it to become proficient.

    Hear, hear.

    And you might as well take Skidmark up on his offer. His bad attitude really is just a mask for a worse attitude.

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    Richmond parties

    One thing that ive noticed about going to parties in richmond, ( im 22) there are a lot of the liberal types that hate guns, but there's just as many who own guns and defend them at parties. now granted I always CC since i don't have an OC holster. Once i get another paycheck I might go ahead and get a blackhawk serpa.

    But the usual group i go out with the social circle is about 60 people. so we always see each other at various parties. id say about 9 of them are gun owners and i am one of 4 people who CC. there may be more but I haven't discovered their secret yet

    but of course since I am the defender of peace i'm never allowed to get drunk
    Last edited by 804emt; 08-27-2010 at 08:34 AM.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    804emt -

    Welcome to OCDO. Please try to attend one of the OC dinners in Richmond. We have a couple of folks from out your way to make the treck in from the boonies for food and fellowship.

    stay safe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kootsoup View Post
    You are word for word quoting invalid and imaginary reasons why OC should be banned. These are the same reasons that people on Concealed carry forums and Anti's use for why OC is a bad idea.

    At some point hopefully you will realize that the real world is NOT like high school and that criminals by their very nature are lazy and looking for the easiest score.

    If by chance some idiot attempts to confront you while you are carrying, chances are they're desperate attempting to perform "suicide by carrier" which is akin to worrying about getting struck by lightning on a sunny day.

    IMO I think you are a CCW forum member who is looking to stir up some arguments on opencarry.org... just my opinion though..
    I don't know why you would automatically assume this? The only forum I frequent other than this is va gun trader. I started here a long time ago and just started coming back because after joining vgt I realized I missed the discussions. I am not mad, but I guess your post just hit me wrong.

    These are concerns that have always kept me from open carrying because of my location. I am considering it, but want to have my mind at ease about the things I asked. Richmond is a shady place, and I want to make sure I am protecting myself against the bad guys, not having them get their hands on my guns. I am currently looking into gun safes, but do not have one now (one reason I worry about people breaking in and getting my guns). If you go on va gun trader you will see that LOTS of guns are stolen. I grew up in the country where we didn't have to lock our doors at night, so I guess Richmond does probably seem more dangerous to me than most people here.

    I just wanted to know how other people in VA..specifically Richmond deal with these concerns. I am certainly not here to make arguments against open carry. I was looking into possibly doing it. No reason to make accusations against someone who is interested in something and wants information on it from a forum that is dedicated to it. As you can see, I joined here in 2007 and have posted about 50 times. I haven't tried to start any arguments against it before.

    I will definitely consider one of the Open Carry outings and the free meal, Skidmark. I truly appreciate the offer. I don't think I can make it this Saturday, but will try to make it to one. I don't have any open carry holsters at the moment though..so I hope you won't be mad if I have mine concealed!

    Thank you all for your answers. If there is anyone Richmond specific (like the fan area) I would like to hear your thoughts!

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    If you find yourself down in the Hampton Roads area this weekend, we have an Open Carry dinner on Saturday evening (7pm) at Golden Corral located at the intersection of Volvo Parkway & Battlefield Blvd in Chesapeake VA. Just take 64E until you get to Exit 290b. As you take the ramp up onto Battlefield, move toward being in the left lane so when you reach the Volvo/Battlefield intersection, you'll want to turn left so you can reach the GC parking lot.

    Breaking into my house would be a... bad idea. My wife knows how to shoot (and can do so fairly well). My kids know how to shoot, one can do decently well. I know how to shoot and do so very well.

    Also, a while back on my way home from an Open Carry dinner, we stopped at the atm to get some money to pay the sitter. The ATM itself & nearby area was well lit. There are some sidewalks leading up to it that are covered by awnings and have little light. A gentleman of unknown persuasion was lurking along moving toward the atm while I was using it. Something didn't feel right so I started glancing around which is when I noticed the guy hiding in the shadows. I made sure he could marvel at my well oiled and cleaned firearm in its nifty OC holster when I retrieved my money from the atm.

    To my dismay, instead of trying to converse with me, he ran away like he had seen a ghost. All the while he kept glancing back at me.

    Bad people seeing you are armed are far more likely to leave you alone than to harrass you. Why? the risk to reward ratio isn't in their favor. Criminals want easy, low risk crimes. Having prey that might be able to effectively fight back isn't easy or low risk.

    Side note: Funnily enough, replacing 'bad people' or 'criminals' with the word 'government' still makes the above four sentences true, lol.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by darthmord View Post
    Having prey that might be able to effectively fight back
    Read: kill them.

    One of my favorite bumper stickers has always been "There is nothing inside this vehicle worth dying for."
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    804emt -

    Welcome to OCDO. Please try to attend one of the OC dinners in Richmond. We have a couple of folks from out your way to make the treck in from the boonies for food and fellowship.

    stay safe.

    is there a website that lists where the dinners will be?

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    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 804emt View Post
    is there a website that lists where the dinners will be?
    When an upcoming dinner is scheduled, a thread for it is typcally "stickied" at the top of the Virginia forum... http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/fo...p?130-Virginia

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    Of your first three reasons I can totally understand your first 2, and I understand the 3rd also but it holds less water to me, so I will address that first. If you don't want people your "associated" with to know you carry, or for that matter own guns, then really your only option is to not carry or carry concealed. Your other option is to say to hell with it, carry and either try and change these folks biased opinions of firearms, or just ignore them.

    Now for the first reason I think this is relatively unlikely, MOST PLACES in the commonwealth. However Richmond does have some very rough areas with some very arrogant and moronic (scary combination) people who live in them. I don't know what "outside the fan" means but there are definitely some bad neighborhoods that border the fan mostly north of Broad and south of the Expressway but also east of Belvidere, and hell Gilpin court is probably less that 2 miles away as the crow flies. I can understand wanting to avoid the possibility of a ridiculous and possibly dangerous confrontation with anyone from a true hardened criminal to some 15-17 year old wanna be thugs who have that previously mentioned scary combination, who happen to live in these close by neighborhoods. And as I mentioned I know most people on this forum will say its unlikely this would happen and overall I agree, but I also think its foolish to underestimate Richmond and its bad neighborhoods (or any other city in VA with bad neighborhoods).

    The second reason is probably more likely than the first, although it kind of falls along the same lines as the first in that it depends on what kind of place you live in. As mentioned by some previous poster(s) have a good situational awareness would hopefully alert you to someone "casing" you before you led them back to your home. Unless of course you live in the type of Richmond neighborhood where you would have to worry about being cased by the thugs down the block, and these do vary well exist.

    I think you will know whether or not you feel comfortable openly carrying, and it seems that as of yet this has not happened, so maybe you should take that as a sign and just continue to do things as you have been doing them. After all carrying to most is more about personal protection (which CC provides) than making a political statement (which OC provides*).

    *that statement is not meant as an assault on OC, as there are tactical advantages to OC, not to mention that the politics; making people aware of the movement and hopefully gaining support is very important.

  21. #21
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    OC Dinners

    Perhaps it is time one is scheduled within the city limits. There must be at least two dozens restaurants in the Fan alone.

  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenny View Post
    Perhaps it is time one is scheduled within the city limits. There must be at least two dozens restaurants in the Fan alone.
    Do you have any recommendations? Historically the issue has not been finding a place that welcomes OC, but finding one that has the room to accomodate anywhere from one to three dozen folks - especially a place that can deal with expanding numbers as the date draws closer.

    Please post your suggestions here on-line. The executive committee will probably welcome an opportunity not to have to wrack its collective brain searching for a location.

    stay safe.

  23. #23
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Do you have any recommendations? Historically the issue has not been finding a place that welcomes OC, but finding one that has the room to accomodate anywhere from one to three dozen folks - especially a place that can deal with expanding numbers as the date draws closer.

    Please post your suggestions here on-line. The executive committee will probably welcome an opportunity not to have to wrack its collective brain searching for a location.

    stay safe.
    Quote Originally Posted by kenny View Post
    Perhaps it is time one is scheduled within the city limits. There must be at least two dozens restaurants in the Fan alone.
    Quote Originally Posted by DrMark View Post
    When an upcoming dinner is scheduled, a thread for it is typcally "stickied" at the top of the Virginia forum... http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/fo...p?130-Virginia
    The Greater Richmond OC Dinners are typically held on the 2nd Tuesday of each month - we try to vary the location to accommodate others. This is posted and stickied about 1 1/2 - 2 weeks in advance. So if a new place is suggested, we need some lead time to check it out if their acceptance.

    Requirements have been ability to seat group of from 20 to 36 together (sometimes more) and a good menu selection - sushi, fried okra and tofu on the same plate do not meet the standard.

    We welcome everyone whether OCing, CCing or not carrying; spouses, GFs, kids, families, friends and neighbors - we are a cross section of all lifestyles and professions.

    We do have one unwritten rule of no alcohol - even though legal if not CCing it is considered bad form at our dinners.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Do you have any recommendations? Historically the issue has not been finding a place that welcomes OC, but finding one that has the room to accomodate anywhere from one to three dozen folks - especially a place that can deal with expanding numbers as the date draws closer.

    Please post your suggestions here on-line. The executive committee will probably welcome an opportunity not to have to wrack its collective brain searching for a location.

    stay safe.
    Here are three off the top of my head. Kitchen 64, the Boulevard and 95/64. They can seat 40-50. Buz & Neds Bar-B-Que. 30 inside and at least that many outside. The Robin Inn, Park Avenue at N. Robinson Street. 50 with no problem. All three are well know and located in the city. Delegate Manoli Loupassi's sister owns the The Robin Inn.

    The city has some wonderful resources for those who take the time to find them.
    Last edited by kenny; 08-29-2010 at 03:50 PM.

  25. #25
    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenny View Post
    The Robin Inn, Park Avenue at N. Robinson Street. 50 with no problem. All three are well know and located in the city. Delegate Manoli Loupassi's sister owns the The Robin Inn.
    In the mid 1980s, when my brother was going to MCV, we'd visit him and eat at The Robin Inn.

    Haven't been there in over 20 years... good memories.

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