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Thread: Pastor killed in officer involved shooting in Spokane Valley

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    Pastor killed in officer involved shooting in Spokane Valley

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38865948

    The Washington State Patrol and Spokane Police Major Crimes Unit are investigating a deadly officer involved shooting that happened late Wednesday night in Spokane Valley. Officers tell say it happened in the 14,000 block of East Fourth Avenue at the Plant Farm with Country Charm, a local nursery.

    Spokane police say a Spokane Valley police officer was responding to a prowling call from the nursery. They say that officer was approached by a man and shots were fired. Police confirm the man was killed. They identify him as 74 year old Wayne Creach, the owner of the Plant Farm.

    Alan Creach, the victim's son, said his father was investigating what he thought was a burglary.
    "At 11 o'clock, my father got out of his bed responding to what he thought was a burglar and he took a gun. Challenged that vehicle in his parking lot there in front of the Plant Farm. " said Alan. "Subsequently, a deputy sheriff shot him and killed him. My mother could hear that from the bedroom. She heard a shout and almost immediately thereafter there were three shots that she heard.'

    Creach said his father was a pastor with the Greenacres Baptist Church for 40 years.

    Since a Spokane Valley police officer was involved in this shooting, the other agencies are investigating.
    As of 5:00 a.m. Thursday morning officers were still on scene working to process the evidence.

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    I think it will be a few days before the whole story on this one comes out.

    What I think I know from different news reports.

    1. History of criminal activity in the area prompting a call for increased patrols in the area.

    2. Unmarked car with officer parked in lot.

    3. Business owner takes gun to confront person in car in lot (probably didin't kow it was a cop)

    4. Some type of confrontation.

    5. Business owner shot and killed.

    All around this seems like a tragedy that didn't need to happen. It is kind of like one of those old military training films on aircraft crashes where it would have only taken one link in the chain to be broken to prevent the whole thing.

    I will wait and see what the police actually release about this in the next few days.

    bob

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobR View Post
    I think it will be a few days before the whole story on this one comes out.

    What I think I know from different news reports.

    1. History of criminal activity in the area prompting a call for increased patrols in the area.

    2. Unmarked car with officer parked in lot.

    3. Business owner takes gun to confront person in car in lot (probably didin't kow it was a cop)

    4. Some type of confrontation.

    5. Business owner shot and killed.

    All around this seems like a tragedy that didn't need to happen. It is kind of like one of those old military training films on aircraft crashes where it would have only taken one link in the chain to be broken to prevent the whole thing.

    I will wait and see what the police actually release about this in the next few days.

    bob
    This is a story that will be best commented on after lots more facts are revealed. Too many possibilities to speculate on.

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    Regular Member Lammo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    This is a story that will be best commented on after lots more facts are revealed. Too many possibilities to speculate on.
    Agreed. Check out some of the truly moronic comments here:

    http://www.spokesman.com/stories/201...nursery-owner/
    IAALBIAAFTDPASNIPHCBCALA
    Don't be so open minded that your brains fall out. (John Corapi, The Black Sheep Dog)
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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    Please, please, please tell me this guy didnt go out to confront this car with gun in hand....

    I think others are right, we are going to have to wait for more details, because one or both of these two had to have made a huge fal-up for this kind of thing to transpire.

  6. #6
    Regular Member bennie1986's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lammo View Post
    Agreed. Check out some of the truly moronic comments here:

    http://www.spokesman.com/stories/201...nursery-owner/
    Someone on KHQ's website said the guy would have been justified in shooting the cop! What a nut job!

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    Regular Member skiingislife725's Avatar
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    And I was just talking about the Spokane police abuse website just the other day with my fiance when we over there visiting her family....

    http://spokanepoliceabuses.wordpress.com/

    But, as already mentioned, way too soon to tell what went down in this incident. Very good point about going outside with your gun though, too much watching Hollywood crap. I'm of the opinion that if I'm in my bedroom and someone breaks in the house, I stay in my safe room (my bedroom) instead of getting shot in the back while clearing my house. And if it's outside, at least staying inside so no one can outflank me and shoot me in the back of the head.

    I didn't read the link, so it was an unmarked police car huh? I'm getting more and more against this trend of unmarked cars (see Poosharker's thread on fake cops).

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    Regular Member SpyderTattoo's Avatar
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    Maybe the tables have turned... Maybe this means that we the people, not the cops should have the guns...

    I've thought about this kind of scenario many times. If a cop goes snooping around on my private property and I come out, armed, to investigate, what then? How is the property owner wrong in this situation. All he knows is that someone is prowling around.

    This is a bad situation.

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    Regular Member rotty's Avatar
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    I have only 2 words for this ...


    DASH CAM


    Alot of factors here ..
    - Knowledge is power and there IS strength in numbers -

    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    - Thomas Jefferson

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    Has a Spokane Valley policeman fatally shot the wrong man?

    A bizarre shooting case in Spokane County is almost certain to take on something of a “life of its own” as investigators sort out how and why a 74-year-old church pastor and nursery operator was killed by a policeman who may have been at the nursery to protect it from thieves.


    http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-i...-the-wrong-man

    Or try this:

    http://tinyurl.com/2d532cy

  11. #11
    Regular Member JSlack's Avatar
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    Based on what I know about this incident....lets not lay all the blame on the officer....lets just say....this guy(the property owner) has had a history of being a hot head. Lets not believe everything the media tells us on this one. And until more FACTS come out about this...that is all I am going to say.

  12. #12
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Who said a little professional training would not have helped here.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Who said a little professional training would not have helped here.
    To use your circular argument from another thread, "who says it would have".

    This incident has too many unknowns for anyone here to make ANY kind of judgement.

    So far, if:

    you are a "cop hater" it was the cops fault.

    you are a training advocate, more training would have prevented this (but for who, the victim or the cop?)

    if you believe anyone has the right to protect property with Deadly Force, the cop was wrong.

    if you think the property owner was a hot-head and shouldn't have had a gun while confronting an unknown person then he's wrong (and dead).


    You can pick any one of the above or even write some of your own. Without facts, which is right?

    I'd rather wait for some more "official information" which probably won't be forthcoming until the detectives have filed their reports.

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    man I hate doing this but here goes another trip on the devils advocate train.

    When there was a shooting in (bellingham, everett, somewhere around there or something)

    By a non LEO everyone was more than willing to give their opinions and speak there mind.

    This story has a LEO involved so everyone is just gonna clam up and wait for more info before shooting off at the mouth?

    Now that that part of the comment is out of the way I will say this: One of the stories quotes the son stating "there was a shout and IMMEDIATELY a gun shot." Seems like it may have been a little trigger happy. Not sure though 100% The big question is did the cop identify himself as such, or did he just say put the gun down? Did he even give the guy an opportunity to react and comply or did he shout and take up the slack at the same time?

    Sure more info is needed, but that has never stopped anyone on this site from popping off at the mouth before (myself included).

    Honestly who would drop their gun just because in the dark someone said "drop your gun!"??? Especially if you had absolutely no reason to believe it was a cop? Not saying this is what happened as info is not 100% complete, more of a hypothetical scenario based question thingy....
    "And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee.
    Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command.
    So we shall flow a river forth to Thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be.
    E nomine Patri, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti."


    "If the rest of the world says: 'War,' I can only say: 'Very well. I do not want war, but no one, however peaceable, can live in peace if his neighbor intends to force a quarrel.'" - Adolf Hitler...

  15. #15
    Regular Member Son_of_Perdition's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    Too bad for all.

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    Regular Member gsx1138's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennie1986 View Post
    Someone on KHQ's website said the guy would have been justified in shooting the cop! What a nut job!
    Well if you confront someone on 'your' property and they pull a gun on you (without identifying themselves) then yes he'd be justified in shooting the cop.

    Too many unknowns in this story.

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    Regular Member bennie1986's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsx1138 View Post
    Well if you confront someone on 'your' property and they pull a gun on you (without identifying themselves) then yes he'd be justified in shooting the cop.

    Too many unknowns in this story.
    True

  18. #18
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    To use your circular argument from another thread, "who says it would have".
    This incident has too many unknowns for anyone here to make ANY kind of judgement.
    So far, if:
    you are a "cop hater" it was the cops fault.
    you are a training advocate, more training would have prevented this (but for who, the victim or the cop?)
    if you believe anyone has the right to protect property with Deadly Force, the cop was wrong.
    if you think the property owner was a hot-head and shouldn't have had a gun while confronting an unknown person then he's wrong (and dead).
    You can pick any one of the above or even write some of your own. Without facts, which is right?
    I'd rather wait for some more "official information" which probably won't be forthcoming until the detectives have filed their reports.
    If it went down as reported, the pastor with firearm in hand went looking for an intruder to protect his property and while doing so the Officer encountered him and shots were fired by one or both I have no idea.

    In Washington State one can use deadly force to protect life and limb but when it comes to property outside the home is very limited and a immediate threat to life and limb must be into play.
    If he had armed himself and stayed in the home while calling 911 he would still be alive and well today with none the worse for wear as Officers would have known where he was and he was in a safe area while protecting himself and family.

    It is really sad, I feel if he would have had a little education or training on these issues he may well still be alive today.

    What I am responding to here is the information given in the article and who really knows the entire story we will have to wait and see.

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    This story sucks all the way around and is very tragic.

    The owner of the store, as well as other residents, called the cops and asked for extra patrols near his property and in the general vicinity. SVPD uses primarily unmarked Crown Vics or Impalas for night time surveillance with antennas and lights in the front and rear glass. They also use unmarked cars for patrol. The gun of the deceased was found near his body.

    It will be an interesting case to follow as more information is released. From talking to a person who knew the deceased, the hothead comment has been, for me, backed up by another source. Pastors aren't all the men of God we often think they are. I've met some who, outside of the church, are very different people. Based upon the info given so far, it appears to me that the deceased went looking for trouble. Personally I suspect he came at the cop with the weapon already out. The smart thing would have been to call the dispatch, he would have been told by dispatch that it was the extra patrol in the neighborhood. The cops would have known where he was, what was going on and he'd most likely still be alive today. Such is my opinion based upon the information at hand and is subject to change as more info becomes available.
    Last edited by Vandal; 08-26-2010 at 09:21 PM.

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    Another good reason to outlaw unmarked cars for patrol or traffic duty.

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    double tap
    Last edited by Jeff Hayes; 08-27-2010 at 12:47 AM.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    I am absolutely, positively against unmarked police cars and plain clothed officers. The reason is simple, the person does not have any identifying markers to prove they are a police officer.

    Someone drive next to me in a car that has no police markings, gets out of their car in plain clothes, pulls a gun out and says they are police, how am I supposed to know that is true??? My reaction would be to draw my sidearm and shoot it out, and I would be wrong for this?

    Take this situation, private property, business owner approaches the car, he doesn't know they are LEO, LEO gets out and opens fire. It is dark outside, the police have not identified themselves (just a hunch).

    Plain clothed officers and unmarked cars are a danger to officers and a danger to civilians. Part of the point to marked vehicles and LEO's dressed in LEO attire is that it shows the public that they are there, they are a reminder that we have a system of laws, and that there are people working every day to help enforce those laws.

    If you are ever involved in an encounter where the person, aside from stating they are LEO, does not prove that they are in fact LEO, you shoot them, you are going down, but they shoot you, they were just doing their job, and you died thinking some POS criminal got the jump on you.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Just a comment to 92FS - Cops are also civilians. They work for Civil authority, enforce Civil law, and are non-combatants under the law. Other than that, your comments were spot on.

  24. #24
    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Right on!

    ...and it's exacerbated with the trend of the "real" unmarked cars actively working toward increasing their "stealth" factor by removing the "state" plates and replacing them with plates like yours and mine.....add to that the plain clothes and it presents a real dilemma.

    Now, they are awarding prizes....

    http://www.king5.com/news/local/More...101297254.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    I am absolutely, positively against unmarked police cars and plain clothed officers. The reason is simple, the person does not have any identifying markers to prove they are a police officer.

    Someone drive next to me in a car that has no police markings, gets out of their car in plain clothes, pulls a gun out and says they are police, how am I supposed to know that is true??? My reaction would be to draw my sidearm and shoot it out, and I would be wrong for this?

    Take this situation, private property, business owner approaches the car, he doesn't know they are LEO, LEO gets out and opens fire. It is dark outside, the police have not identified themselves (just a hunch).

    Plain clothed officers and unmarked cars are a danger to officers and a danger to civilians. Part of the point to marked vehicles and LEO's dressed in LEO attire is that it shows the public that they are there, they are a reminder that we have a system of laws, and that there are people working every day to help enforce those laws.

    If you are ever involved in an encounter where the person, aside from stating they are LEO, does not prove that they are in fact LEO, you shoot them, you are going down, but they shoot you, they were just doing their job, and you died thinking some POS criminal got the jump on you.
    Last edited by jt59; 08-27-2010 at 10:56 AM.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

  25. #25
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    On Unmarked Cars and Plainclothes Officers

    Both have their place.

    Unmarked cars with a fully uniformed officer are great for stopping those drivers who immediately put on their "Halos" in the presence of a marked car.

    Plainclothes officers in unmarked cars work great for enforcing drug laws and staking out high crime areas.

    There is obvious a downside when an officer has to encounter an armed citizen in a situation like this.



    Quote Originally Posted by Vandal
    This story sucks all the way around and is very tragic.
    Very true and it sucks even more because there are no facts available yet. Even those comments that are claimed to have been verified are at best, hearsay.
    Last edited by amlevin; 08-27-2010 at 12:18 PM.

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