Thread: Gifting down ?
does any one know if gifting down a gun has to be from a parent? i know if ur under 18 it does but what if ur 18 and a freind wants to buy u a gun for ur birthday or something? for example a pistol for ur 18th?
"A straw purchase is any purchase whereby the purchaser is knowingly acquiring an item or service for someone who is, for whatever reason, unable to purchase the item or service themselves. This term can be applied to any such purchase, but it is most widely used in relation to the sale of fire arms, especially in United States federal"
(Taken from Wikpedia)
"In the context of United States federal gun laws, a straw purchase is defined as any purchase from a dealer holding a Federal Firearms License where the buyer conducting the transaction is acting as a proxy for another person. The law does not distinguish between someone who is purchasing on behalf of a person who legally cannot purchase or possess a firearm, and one who is not. In the United States, straw purchases are a felony violation of the Gun Control Act of 1968 for both the straw purchaser (who can also be charged with lying on Federal Form 4473) and the ultimate possessor. One of the questions on form 4473 is “I am the buyer of this firearm” and the purchaser must answer honestly yes or no, by checking the appropriate box in ink. However, purchase of a firearm as a bona fide gift for someone who can legally own such a firearm is permitted."
(Taken from Wikpedia)
As you can see on form 4473 on LINE A "Are you the actual buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form?" Goes on to say that if you are not then the dealer can not make the sale to you. So yes if your friend who is of legal age went into a gun store and purchased a firearm.Then turned around and sold and or gave said firearm to you it would seem to me it would fall under a "straw purchase". But again that's why we have firearm attorneys who know the laws far better then anyone on this forum who is not one. Now it may be different if your friend did this after you become 18 as you would be of legal age as said in state/federal law. Contact that lawyer I told you to and get all this information from a professional!!!!!!!!!! In the end the buck stops with you it's up to you to confirm any information people give you on this forum NEVER TAKE SOMEONES WORD! Always take the said information and research it for your self. Not that people on this forum are out to give wrong information but sometimes it happens as laws are always changing.
If you don't like the answers your getting from members then call a lawyer and find out for sure.
Oh gawd.. not this again... so much FUD, where to begin...
First, straw purchase and providing a firearm to a prohibited person are two completely SEPARATE and DISTINCT violations to two SEPARATE and DISTINCT sections of Federal law. So, to clear this up according to both Federal statute and ATF clarification, not personal opinion loaded with FUD.
Straw purchase is when one person uses another person's money to buy a firearm from an FFL and provide that other person with that firearm. Period. End of story. If I use MY money to purchase a firearm from a dealer, for my own use, I have not committed a straw purchase. It does not matter what I do with that firearm after that - shoot it, sell it, give it away, send it to the moon. I bought that firearm with MY own money to use as I see fit to use it. Therefore no straw purchase.
The statute violated when a straw purchase does occur is ONLY 18 USC 922 (a)(6):
If I am buying a firearm from a licensed dealer AND I am using someone else's money AND I am purchasing that firearm with the intention to provide that person with a firearm, then I am lying on the form 4473 when it asks "Are you the actual purchaser of this firearm" and committing a straw purchase in violation of 18 USC 922 (a)(6).(a) It shall be unlawful—
(6) for any person in connection with the acquisition or attempted acquisition of any firearm or ammunition from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, knowingly to make any false or fictitious oral or written statement or to furnish or exhibit any false, fictitious, or misrepresented identification, intended or likely to deceive such importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector with respect to any fact material to the lawfulness of the sale or other disposition of such firearm or ammunition under the provisions of this chapter;
If I am buying a firearm from a licensed dealer and I am using MY OWN MONEY or money gifted to me by someone else, than I am purchasing that firearm for my own use, period. It's my money, regardless if that money was acquired by me via paycheck, welfare, or gift. Irregardless of if I am going to give that firearm away, provide it to a felon, send it to the moon, I have purchased that firearm with MY MONEY. I have not lied on the form 4473, I have not committed a straw purchase, I have not violated 18 USC 922 (a)(6).
The above facts are spelled out not only on the form 4473 itself, but also by the ATF on page 165 of the Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide:
It is quite lengthy, I am not going to copy it here unless requested.
Second, in regards to buying a firearm as a gift for a person under the age of 18 and for a person between the ages of 18 and 21.
For anyone to permanently provide a person under the age of 18 with a handgun, whether it be by gift or sale, whether it be by a parent or a complete stranger, violates 18 USC 922 (x):
There are exceptions for temporary transfer for the purposes of employment, farming and ranching, target practice, hunting and instruction.(x)
(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer to a person who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is a juvenile— (A) a handgun; or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.
In Federal statutes there is one prohibition in regards to transferring a handgun to a person between 18 and 20 years old (due to age only). It is illegal for an FFL to transfer a handgun to a person under 21 years old. That's it. That's all. It is not illegal for an 18 to 20 year old to purchase a handgun from a dealer or from a private party. It is only illegal for the dealer to actually transfer it. A private party can legally transfer the handgun to a person 18 to 20 years old either by gift or by sale (assuming same state residents and state law allows it).
18 USC 922 (b)(1) is the statute:
Notice the statute does not prohibit the 18 to 20 year old from purchasing a handgun, from receiving a handgun, nor does it prohibit the transfer of the handgun to a person 18 to 20 years old by a private party.(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver— (1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than eighteen years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age;
Almost finally, providing a gun to a prohibited person violates 18 USC 922 (d) and is a completely separate offense from a straw purchase. A straw purchase can be made in order to provide a prohibited person with a firearm. In that case TWO SEPARATE and DISTINCT offenses are committed. A straw purchase can be made if the firearm is bought with someone else's money with the intent to provide them with the gun, even if that person is eligible to buy the gun themselves. A firearm can be provided to a prohibited person without committing a straw purchase. They are two entirely separate and distinct acts.
Finally, buying a gun as a gift, with one's own money, to give to a person who could not purchase that gun themselves from an FFL is NOT illegal, if the recipient is not otherwise prohibited from possessing that gun. There are at least two cases where this would occur. Obviously the first case is a handgun gift/private sale to a person 18 to 20 years old.
The second case is a persons who gives a gift to a same state resident, if that resident does not have identification sufficient to prove state residency to an FFL. A common occurence of this is a military person who buys a gun from an FFL - providing military orders and military ID card as evidence to the FFL of state residency, and then turning around and gifting or selling that gun to a spouse or other family member who lives with them at their duty station but who is not required to change their driver's license.
For instance, in Washington, neither active duty military members nor their immediate family are required to obtain a Washington State Driver's License or ID Card. So a military spouse could be a resident of Washington state due to being present in WA state with the intention of making a home here, not have a Washington STATE DL or ID, be unable to purchase a handgun from an FFL in WA State, and yet be legal to receive a handgun via gift or private purchase.
From page 165 of the Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide published by the ATF:
Where a person purchases a firearm
with the intent of making a gift of the
firearm to another person, the person
making the purchase is indeed the true
purchaser. There is no straw purchaser
in these instances.
Last edited by NavyLCDR; 08-30-2010 at 12:07 PM.
Let's say, somehow, an 18 year old went to a dealer and did, somehow, manage to complete the transaction and purchase a handgun. Granted, it should never happen, but let's say it does. So long as the 18 year old presented nothing false to the FFL - who committed the offense? The FFL only committed the offense, because the 18 year old did no action that was prohibited by law, so long as they presented honest and true documents and answers to the FFL and on the form 4473.
So CAN you buy a pistol or rifle for someone who is allowed to possess such firearms? Like for your boyfriend who has bought numerous guns in the past and approved in minutes on the NICS check. So what DO you put on the question that asks you if you are buying it for someone else?
If your intention is to gift the firearm, you're still buying it for yourself at that moment. What you do subsequently is up to you: gift it, sell it, keep it. Buying a gift is not a straw purchase. You buy the gun and determine what you want to (legally) do next with it.
But, heck. I was stationed in Oklahoma. I could purchase handguns in OK based on my orders and military ID, even though I maintained a WY driver's license. My wife could not buy handguns from FFLs in Oklahoma because she only had a WY driver's license and, not being in the military, had no orders to Oklahoma. She did meet the definition of an Oklahoma resident, however, which is presence in the state with the intent of making a home in that state. On multiple occassions she would handle the handguns, pick one out, I would do the 4473 with my info, my orders, my military ID, and pay for it with marital funds that I had access to do with whatever I wanted and after the purchase right there on the spot hand the gun to her as a gift.