I was told to resign or not carry my weapon.

Ruby said:

Will he allow you to keep your gun in your car on company property?

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It's better not to ask. Just do it. You have a reasonable expectation of privacy if your car is locked and the pistol is not in plain view. I did it up until I got a job as a defense contractor. Now that I have to work on a base, I can't carry even one round of ammo with me. It sucks BIG time.

Ruby said:

Yes, and if he lives in a "right to work" state where the boss doesn't need a reason or excuse to fire you, he may loose his job over it. No boss that I know of wants his decisions questioned.

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very true, even if it is not in the employee handbook, if you are in a right to work state, they can terminate you for any reason, and most handbooks have a generic rule that you must follow supervisors directions. refusal gets you fired

It's a very small percentage of people who are allowed to OC at work in the first place. While I'm sure you feel insulted and demeaned having the option taken away from you, welcome to the real world. Policy manual or not, notwithstanding any existing discrimination laws, if your boss tells you something, it becomes policy. The only recourse you have is to attempt a dialogue to determine what has changed and try to negotiate a resolution.

swinokur said:

very true, even if it is not in the employee handbook, if you are in a right to work state, they can terminate you for any reason, and most handbooks have a generic rule that you must follow supervisors directions. refusal gets you fired

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Again, this is not the meaning of "right to work." What you mean is "at-will." All States, to one extent or another, have "at will" employment.

"Right to work" States do not allow unions to force employees to either belong to the union or pay the dues anyway.

zekester said:

I have been carrying my g36 for over two years openly at work. There is nothing in the "employee handbook" that says i cannot, but my boss out of the blue told me today..." I want your resignation today unless you agree to not carry a weapon"

I know that he has every right to restrict firearms, but if I have been carrying for two years, what the hell is that?

I am pretty much screwed.....I am sure

That said....don't buy from Milford Plumbing Supply in the St louis area....but stop by the St Charles store and say hi!!

Zeke

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So what did you do?

eye95 said:

Again, this is not the meaning of "right to work." What you mean is "at-will." All States, to one extent or another, have "at will" employment.

"Right to work" States do not allow unions to force employees to either belong to the union or pay the dues anyway.

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Actually, 49 of the 50 states have at-will employment. The exception is one of the "M" states -- Missouri, perhaps? I can never remember which one. At-will employment means an employer can fire you at any time, with or without "just" cause, except for solely on the grounds of protected status (age, race, national origin, etc.). An employer can almost always find another reason than the protected status, but most are not that petty.

Tess said:

Actually, 49 of the 50 states have at-will employment. The exception is one of the "M" states -- Missouri, perhaps? I can never remember which one. At-will employment means an employer can fire you at any time, with or without "just" cause, except for solely on the grounds of protected status (age, race, national origin, etc.). An employer can almost always find another reason than the protected status, but most are not that petty.

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I am sorry, but that is just not precise. All States subscribe to varying degrees to the legal concept of at-will employment. Many have specific protections built into the law that reduce the scope of the legal concept, but do not do away with it entirely. For example, States that have "good faith" laws still adhere to the at-will doctrine. If the employer is applying the gun-ban across-the-board and genuinely believes it is best for his company, the employee would be hard-pressed to show that his boss did not act in good faith.

Again, all States subscribe to the "at will" employment doctrine. "At will" is the legal starting point on to which many States have hung exceptions. Check the laws of each State to see if they have legislated any exceptions and what they are.

zekester said:

I have been carrying my g36 for over two years openly at work. There is nothing in the "employee handbook" that says i cannot, but my boss out of the blue told me today..." I want your resignation today unless you agree to not carry a weapon"

I know that he has every right to restrict firearms, but if I have been carrying for two years, what the hell is that?

I am pretty much screwed.....I am sure

That said....don't buy from Milford Plumbing Supply in the St louis area....but stop by the St Charles store and say hi!!

Zeke

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That's a sucky situation to be in, Zeke.

Hopefully, in the interest of keeping the job for the moment, the only thing you've resigned is your G36 to the COM safe in the vehicle in the parking lot for the time being.

It's too bad the manager didn't put his demand in writing. That would make it easier to take to HR (or other higher-up) to ask for clarification (i.e., is this in the rules I agreed to upon employment, when did this take effect, was there a specific complaint, etc). Such questions may not change the boss' mind, but at least you'll understand the grounds for his demands.

When you go back in to work (tomorrow?), if he asks about your sidearm, I'd just tell him you've complied with his demands. As much as the snarky replies want to come out (I know I can think of several, and I'm not even there ), don't let them. Any ideas what the voice recording laws are in your state? If you can't get something in writing, and can legally record it... I'm just saying...

Good luck to you. Let us know how it turns out.

eye95 said:

Again, this is not the meaning of "right to work." What you mean is "at-will." All States, to one extent or another, have "at will" employment.

"Right to work" States do not allow unions to force employees to either belong to the union or pay the dues anyway.

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ok-at will. still doesn't change the fact that if you fail to follow a supervisors instructions, you can be fired for that in lieu of the other infraction.

either way-you are now unemployed.

And, I won't argue with that fact. As a matter of fact, I believe that that is the way it should be.

I just don't want folks to misunderstand what Right to Work laws are. All States should have those laws. They protect Liberty.

Once upon a time in middle school, I had a screwdriver in my coat pocket. I had carried it to school for one reason or another. That particular day, I would up with another kid's hands wrapped around my neck rather forcefully. When the principal discussed the matter with me, he confiscated my screwdriver. Of course, the other boy said he was "just playing around." I sure didn't feel like he was playing around. The presence of the screwdriver was non-objectionable until I used it as a tool for self-defense.

I graduated in the late 1990s.

Kirbinator said:

Once upon a time in middle school, I had a screwdriver in my coat pocket. I had carried it to school for one reason or another. That particular day, I would up with another kid's hands wrapped around my neck rather forcefully. When the principal discussed the matter with me, he confiscated my screwdriver. Of course, the other boy said he was "just playing around." I sure didn't feel like he was playing around. The presence of the screwdriver was non-objectionable until I used it as a tool for self-defense.

I graduated in the late 1990s.

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That's why, in most State laws, you need only demonstrate that you "reasonably" feared for your safety to use self-defense as a justification. Did you stab the guy? You should have.

I work at a OSB Mill, and we were just bought out by Georgia Pacific, in our handbook it says that Knives,Guns, lighters, brass knuckles etc.... are not allowed anywhere on company property.

Now where I work a knife comes in handy, so I am hoping they will allow us to carry knives. I carry mine daily at work, and they havent said anything to me yet about it.

o-Marine-o said:

I work at a OSB Mill, and we were just bought out by Georgia Pacific, in our handbook it says that Knives,Guns, lighters, brass knuckles etc.... are not allowed anywhere on company property.

Now where I work a knife comes in handy, so I am hoping they will allow us to carry knives. I carry mine daily at work, and they havent said anything to me yet about it.

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Where I work, they have a large sign(one of the few I've seen that meets MO regs.) stating that firearms, knives, saps,etc. are not allowed in or on company propery. Just about everyone who works there carries a knive. I usually carry two(pocket on a clip and multitool in a pouch). I was just wondering can they pick and chose. If they looked in my vehicle and saw a firearm could they still claim I violated the policy when they have already turned a blind eye to all the knives which would also violate the policy?

o-Marine-o said:

I work at a OSB Mill, and we were just bought out by Georgia Pacific, in our handbook it says that Knives,Guns, lighters, brass knuckles etc.... are not allowed anywhere on company property.

Now where I work a knife comes in handy, so I am hoping they will allow us to carry knives. I carry mine daily at work, and they havent said anything to me yet about it.

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This is why I love Kentucky. Does not cover carry at work but you have some degree of protection if you have it in your vehicle. So I don't have to leave it at home.

237.106 Right of employees and other persons to possess firearms in vehicle -- Employer liable for denying right -- Exceptions.
(1) No person, including but not limited to an employer, who is the owner, lessee, or occupant of real property shall prohibit any person who is legally entitled to possess a firearm from possessing a firearm, part of a firearm, ammunition, or ammunition component in a vehicle on the property.
(2) A person, including but not limited to an employer, who owns, leases, or otherwise occupies real property may prevent a person who is prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a firearm or ammunition from possessing a firearm or ammunition on the property.
(3) A firearm may be removed from the vehicle or handled in the case of self-defense, defense of another, defense of property, or as authorized by the owner, lessee, or occupant of the property.
(4) An employer that fires, disciplines, demotes, or otherwise punishes an employee who is lawfully exercising a right guaranteed by this section and who is engaging in conduct in compliance with this statute shall be liable in civil damages. An employee may seek and the court shall grant an injunction against an employer who is violating the provisions of this section when it is found that the employee is in compliance with the provisions of this section.
(5) The provisions of this section shall not apply to any real property:
(a) Owned, leased, or occupied by the United States government, upon which the possession or carrying of firearms is prohibited or controlled;
(b) Of a detention facility as defined in KRS 520.010; or
(c) Where a section of the Kentucky Revised Statutes specifically prohibits possession or carrying of firearms on the property.
Effective: July 12, 2006
History: Created 2006 Ky. Acts ch. 240, sec. 8, effective July 12, 2006.

That really sucks, esp. after them being OK with it for so long.
I'd be curious to find out what changed.
Conceal well, start looking for another job.

I also suggest writing your state reps to get the law changed so that exercise of civil rights cannot be grounds for negative job action.
I've been poking around MO laws a bit last night & this morning, & they say nothing about protecting the exercise of civil rights.

Here in WI we have a law which prohibits adverse job action for "use or non-use of legal products off company time & property" which is about the closest they come to protecting the particular civil right we're most interested in.

Nobody should have to choose between a job and exercising natural rights as recognized in the US Constitution - assembly [1A], speech [1A], petitioning the government [1A], self-protection [2A], voting [A# 15, 19, 24, 26], remaining silent when questioned by police [5A]...

If the employee has done nothing illegal, has simply done what s/he has every right to do, s/he should not fear losing a job.

Of course, if there's more than one company / managerial person involved, it's possible that this federal statute would come into play:
http://www.justice.gov/crt/crim/241fin.php
"If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State... in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same... They shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both..."



FYI:
Amendment IX: Rights retained by the People
"The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

MKEgal said:

Nobody should have to choose between a job and exercising natural rights - ..., voting,

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Voting is not a natural right and not a Constitutional right. The right to vote is established only in some States.

Zeke, did your boss give any reasons? Was it an established rule which he had not enforced? Why the change?

Is your Boss approachable enough where you can ask the "why" behind the change?

If you know the reasons, you may be able to change the boss's mind.

You should talk to a lawyer... assuming you don't want to just give in and stop carrying the weapon. And...

Assuming you have been carrying the weapon, openly, with permission for two years.

Assuming there is nothing in the company handbook or an employee policy prohibiting firearms.

And assuming there is no immediate change to the company handbook to reflect an employee policy prohibiting firearms...

You may have a case for a discrimination lawsuit. Regardless of whether you are in an at-will employment state or a right to work state... if you are treated differently than your fellow employees, or if an overseers opinion of you or of a workplace regulation singles you out of the crowd, it could be an illegal action and one that you have a legal right to fight.

IANAL, but there are laws to protect you from this type of discrimination... regardless of which of your rights is being violated.

Know though... he only has to revise the company handbook to make this all legit...

daddy4count said:

You should talk to a lawyer... assuming you don't want to just give in and stop carrying the weapon. And...

Assuming you have been carrying the weapon, openly, with permission for two years.

Assuming there is nothing in the company handbook or an employee policy prohibiting firearms.

And assuming there is no immediate change to the company handbook to reflect an employee policy prohibiting firearms...

You may have a case for a discrimination lawsuit. Regardless of whether you are in an at-will employment state or a right to work state... if you are treated differently than your fellow employees, or if an overseers opinion of you or of a workplace regulation singles you out of the crowd, it could be an illegal action and one that you have a legal right to fight.

IANAL, but there are laws to protect you from this type of discrimination... regardless of which of your rights is being violated.

Know though... he only has to revise the company handbook to make this all legit...

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There's that misuse of "right to work" again.

Folks, please, look up "right to work." Please, make sure you know what the term means. Right to work laws prevent unions from forcing employees to join the union or pay the dues anyway.