Asked to leave a country park?

paul@paul-fisher.com said:

Emphasis added.

Click to expand...

So if a county has banned firearms in the county park, like Milwaukee has, that is as stringent as the state law? I know state parks allow them as long as they are UNLOADED and ENCASED. But then that's not open carrying.

xenophon said:

So if a county has banned firearms in the county park, like Milwaukee has, that is as stringent as the state law? I know state parks allow them as long as they are UNLOADED and ENCASED. But then that's not open carrying.

Click to expand...

This is a matter of debate and as far as I know will need to be a subject of litigation. The municipalities contention is that since the state can bar OC in state parks, they can bar OC in municipal parks. I believe 'our' contention is that since there are more municipal parks, the sheer number makes it more restrictive.

I personally haven't made up my mind on it.

If I'm missing something, I'm sure someone will correct me.

Since when are stringent and restrictive synonymous?

None the less, the municipal ordinance legality is up to the municipality to defend. We are but law abiding citizens. RULE 15! No debate, no stylin' an' profilin'!

Doug Huffman said:

RULE 15! No debate, no stylin' an' profilin'!

Click to expand...

Rule 15 allows debate, just not condoning.

paul@paul-fisher.com said:

Rule 15 allows debate, just not condoning.

Click to expand...

When I'm traveling from county to county, I'm just not going to know which ones have (city/county) park bans and which don't, which sucks.

xenophon said:

When I'm traveling from county to county, I'm just not going to know which ones have (city/county) park bans and which don't, which sucks.

Click to expand...

...Which was the intent of 66.0409... Since we have been threatened with prosecution for carrying in a Milwaukee Co Park, it would seem to me that we have legal standing to file suit to get clarification.

66.0409(2) Except as provided in subs. (3) and (4), no political subdivision may enact an ordinance or adopt a resolution that regulates the sale, purchase, purchase delay, transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permitting, registration or taxation of any firearm or part of a firearm, including ammunition and reloader components, unless the ordinance or resolution is the same as or similar to, and no more stringent than, a state statute.

Click to expand...

As I read and understand this, it would be against the law for any city, village, town, or county to enact an ordinance or adopt a resolution that is "more stringent than, a state statute."

66.0409(4)(b) If a political subdivision has in effect on November 17, 1995, an ordinance or resolution that regulates the sale, purchase, transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permitting, registration or taxation of any firearm or part of a firearm, including ammunition and reloader components, and the ordinance or resolution is not the same as or similar to a state statute, the ordinance or resolution shall have no legal effect and the political subdivision may not enforce the ordinance or resolution on or after November 18, 1995.

Click to expand...

As I read and understand this, "the ordinance or resolution shall have no legal effect and the political subdivision may not enforce the ordinance or resolution on or after November 18, 1995," unless the ordinance is "the same as or similar to a state statute."

So I carry everywhere I go except those places prohibited by state law. If a local LEO decides to enforce or threaten to enforce an ordinance that is more restrictive than state law, I will sue them and I am certain I will win. I have statements from multiple municipal attorneys informing me that those parts of the local ordinances prohibiting carry by anyone other than a police officer are unenforceable, have been since 1995, and have not been enforced since 1995.

I will accept the legal opinion of the many attorneys I have talked to and carry on.

Now as to county parks....

The League of Municipalities (a government control the people organization) thinks that county park bans are enforceable and have given legal advice to every county stating such. I believe they are wrong, and it will need to be challenged in court.

That challenge is being prepared already.

Local park restrictions...

By stating that the public park restriction is "similar" to state statutes, I can only offer this little tidbit of information.

If you will classify a local public park as being the same as a state owned park, then by all means I hope everyone on this board will apply, or attempt to apply, for a permit to hunt within their "local" park come hunting season.

If a local park is the same as a state park, then hunting should be permitted.

No worries, I hear that the platform on top of the kiddie slide makes for a nice "tree-stand".




Also, any updates on this lawsuit? I'm working a different angle which I'm requesting information about in another thread on this forum, but would like to know about this lawsuit, if there's anything you can share at all?

Are we simply waiting for someone to get arrested/ticketed in a public park before we pursue this?

Thanks.

Jay

Jay:

The Portage County Sheriff actually threatened me and several other WCI members with arrest if I carried in a County Park. His threat was published in the local paper back in June.

We are putting the notice of claim together right now. That has to be filed and then the county has 120 days to respond. They can rescind the ordinance, or deny the claim. If they deny, then we file suit in the county court asking for a declaratory judgment.

We are at the beginning of this process.

Wisconsin Carry said:

Jay:

The Portage County Sheriff actually threatened me and several other WCI members with arrest if I carried in a County Park. His threat was published in the local paper back in June.

We are putting the notice of claim together right now. That has to be filed and then the county has 120 days to respond. They can rescind the ordinance, or deny the claim. If they deny, then we file suit in the county court asking for a declaratory judgment.

We are at the beginning of this process.

Click to expand...

Hubert, will this one case work state wide or do we have to do this type of thing at each county and municipality that has a park ordinance?

paul@paul-fisher.com said:

Hubert, will this one case work state wide or do we have to do this type of thing at each county and municipality that has a park ordinance?

Click to expand...

I expect them to deny the claim, and go to court, but if Portage County rescinds the ordinance, then this will have no effect anywhere other than Portage County.

If we go to court, then regardless the outcome at the county level, I would expect this to be appealed and eventually get to the State Supreme Court. Once the WSSC gets involved, then it would be a state wide thing.

Like I said, we are at the beginning of the process on this. Be assured we will keep you informed.....

Wisconsin Carry said:

I expect them to deny the claim, and go to court, but if Portage County rescinds the ordinance, then this will have no effect anywhere other than Portage County.

If we go to court, then regardless the outcome at the county level, I would expect this to be appealed and eventually get to the State Supreme Court. Once the WSSC gets involved, then it would be a state wide thing.

Like I said, we are at the beginning of the process on this. Be assured we will keep you informed.....

Click to expand...

So, we are hoping for failure at least at the 1st step.

paul@paul-fisher.com said:

So, we are hoping for failure at least at the 1st step.

Click to expand...

I personally also hope for success :lol:

Having said that, the best chance for state wide effect is for them to deny the claim and force it to court.

Wisconsin Carry said:

I personally also hope for success :lol:

Having said that, the best chance for state wide effect is for them to deny the claim and force it to court.

Click to expand...

That's why I said 'we'. I'm selfish

bnhcomputing said:

Now as to county parks....

The League of Municipalities (a government control the people organization) thinks that county park bans are enforceable and have given legal advice to every county stating such. I believe they are wrong, and it will need to be challenged in court.

Click to expand...

I just wanted to reference this info for those who may not have read it. I did not know about this opinion until you mentioned it and had a chance to search it out myself. From what I was told by local communities is that the city attorney made the decision, no reference to advice from outside.

Sorry, I'm not sure how to make this a clickable link...

http://www.lwm-info.org/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={D746E3BD-06EB-4823-A22A-0B4AE68E7CC7}&DE={28B4FF0D-778E-4FE6-BD77-FE1429FAB4B7}

Wisconsin Carry said:

Jay:

The Portage County Sheriff actually threatened me and several other WCI members with arrest if I carried in a County Park. His threat was published in the local paper back in June.

We are putting the notice of claim together right now. That has to be filed and then the county has 120 days to respond. They can rescind the ordinance, or deny the claim. If they deny, then we file suit in the county court asking for a declaratory judgment.

We are at the beginning of this process.

Click to expand...

Thank you for the info and thank you for keeping us posted.