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Thread: Kentucky Police Checkpoints

  1. #1
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    Kentucky Police Checkpoints

    Im assuming they're legal in Kentucky since they had one just outside of Stanford, KY. There were 3 Lincoln County deputies and a State Trooper checking driver's licenses. I was open carrying on the motorcycle, but I don't believe they ever saw it since they were standing in the middle of the road holding people up. It's rather annoying going through a checkpoint on a motorcycle.

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    Regular Member KYKevin's Avatar
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    I don't see em much any more. Last one I went through was after the bbq festival in may here in Owensboro. No hassle though. They just asked if I had been drinking. I said no and moved along. It was on the bypass and they was not really holding up traffic.

    Since I don't drink it doesn't really bother me. So I don't think about them much. They can be annoying if they have a long line though. Usually happens when they don't have enough officers working one. At least on a bike they don't make you remove your weapon amd place it in a compartment.

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    I don't drink but I still find these checkpoints infuriating. Very East German, checkpoints are.

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    This was just after noon. They only asked to see my driver's license and I was on my way.

    It's been a while since I have seen a check point. They're unconstitutional in Texas, but Illinois had plenty of them.

    At first I thought it was an accident and I was almost ready to turn around since I was on the bike, now Im glad I didn't as they probably would have chased me down and wrote me a ticket on some made up charge of avoiding a police check point.

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    Illinois still has plenty of them. Glad you didn't get hassled to badly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    I don't drink but I still find these checkpoints infuriating. Very East German, checkpoints are.
    You can strike a small blow by refusing to use the government's spin terminology: checkpoint.

    Always call them what they are: roadblock.

    The government likes the word checkpoint because it sounds a little nicer and sounds "safe" and less invasive. But, just try running through one without stopping and see how quick the nature of the encounter changes.

    Calling it a checkpoint is just more government spin. Just like interrogations. Police no longer have interrogations. Now, they have interviews. Ha! Interrogation.

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    For those who might not know, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration kicked off it's annual Labor Day sobriety checkpoint program August 20, and will be active through Labor Day. Eleven states currently prohibit suspicionless checkpoints within their boundaries. If you happen to live in a state not listed below, be prepared! Surprises an police often don't mix well.

    Alaska
    Idaho
    Iowa
    Michigan
    Minnesota
    Rhode Island
    Oregon
    Texas
    Washington
    Wisconsin
    Wyoming
    Last edited by jtrider; 08-29-2010 at 05:24 PM.

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    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Talking

    [QUOTE=flb_78;1342135]This was just after noon. They only asked to see my driver's license and I was on my way.

    It's been a while since I have seen a check point. They're unconstitutional in Texas, but Illinois had plenty of them.

    Sorry, posted a reply to the wrong person. *LOL*
    Last edited by neuroblades; 07-27-2011 at 10:10 PM. Reason: Corrected spelling.
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    Regular Member hotrod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neuroblades View Post
    Well, I DID run one of these "roadblocks" last year! *LOL* Like flb_78, I too thought it was a simple accident. A friend and I were coming back from an evening out to the movies and dinner. We were on a long straight away and in the distance I see one set of blue lights about a quarter mile ahead. I started slowing down to a safe coast speed till I could ascertain exactly what it was. As I got closer I couldn't make out anything except just a cruiser, no LEO were visible and therefore I assumed that they were over the side of the hill with a vehicle or doing something else. In EVERY roadblock I've ever encountered, a officer is on the road or to the side of the road and their flashlight is illuminating the roadway indicating they're there and checking ID. Not this night! I saw NO officer and so I just held a slow speed and went on, it was about then that I heard someone yell, "WHOOOOA". I just realized then that this was a roadblack I had apparently ran it.

    This wasn't JUST any ordinary roadblack though, it was a DRUG roadblock! And I had just ran it, nearly! I won't go into all the details here, it would take far too long and no one wants to read all of it! *LOL*

    I ended up getting a near strip search on the roadside. *LOL* But in light of the fact that I was wearing a black long drover coat, black tactical pants, and a black shirt; I apparently looking like a drug dealer or runner. *LOL* It's my standard style of dress though.

    The KSP trooper was not any too happy but over the course of this encounter, he lightened up once he understood what had happened. Plus, I ended up getting to lecture a rookie KSP trooper as well for making the statement that I was obviously a drug user due to my style of dress. Even the senior trooper that was dealing with me got a massive laugh and seeing that this rookie was just making me upset, he ran him off and told him to stay out of it.

    It was really funny as well when the senior KSP trooper started doing the field test for naroctics, I had this glint of a smile and he of course saw it and stopped the test to ask why I was smiling about, was I stoned? *LOL* I just looked him straight in the eyes and told him I wasn't and when he asked why, I just told him that I had worked in narcotics many years ago. Yes! I still got tested and enjoyed every second of it. *LOL* Luckily this night, I was NOT carrying.


    What kind of road block was it? If I read correctly a drug roadblock. I would not have allowed any testing nor would I have left my vehicle. What was the RAS to stop you. If you had you license, what else could they want. I also believe the USSC made it plain that only DUI checkpoints were allowed. Please explain more. Were you carrying at the time? I think my "pound salt" attitude would rear its ugly head.
    Last edited by hotrod; 08-29-2010 at 07:58 PM.
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    NO!, the checkpoints are not LEGAL, in fact they are illegal. The supreme court of the United States have even said they are illegal, but they allow them because of all the good they do.

    I dont give them consent for anything when I see one. I tell them what I am obligated to and then ask if I can go....

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    Quote Originally Posted by neuroblades View Post
    SNIP This wasn't JUST any ordinary roadblack though, it was a DRUG roadblock!
    Hmmmmm. Since when are drug roadblocks legal, folks? I'm pretty sure I recall the US Supreme Court shot down suspicionless roadblocks for general crime-detection and crime-fighting.

  12. #12
    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod View Post
    What kind of road block was it? If I read correctly a drug roadblock. I would not have allowed any testing nor would I have left my vehicle. What was the RAS to stop you. If you had you license, what else could they want. I also believe the USSC made it plain that only DUI checkpoints were allowed. Please explain more. Were you carrying at the time? I think my "pound salt" attitude would rear its ugly head.
    Honestly, I'm not sure what kind of roadblack it was intended to be but for me, it was a drug roadblock. I can understand why they did what they did, as far as the the senior KSP trooper was concerned. I did after all seemingly attempt to run the roadblock! *LOL* But once we got to talking, I explained what had happened and after pointing out that I was able to stop in less than 10 feet, the officer realized that I was obviously NOT on drugs! *LOL*

    The actions of the rookie troop were reckless and foolish and that I DID tell him face to face and very directly. He was trying to be trooper "cool" and show off for the senior trooper. His rant started with, "Aw, come on dude! We've all used something, you've been smoking weed haven't you"? My reply was, "No, not in over 20 years but you're freely and openly admitting in front of a trooper that you've been smoking weed recently. Perhaps I should place you under citizens arrest and have this troop (indicating the senior troop that was dealing with me) place you under formal arrest". The rookie trooper got very upset and mad to say the least. He replied, "What are you some kind smartass narc"? *LOL* My reply, "Yes! i used to be"! It was at this point, after a few other retort exchanges between us that the senior trooper went over to the rookie and verbally reprimanded him for interfering with his (senior trooper) checking me and upsetting me.

    I was NOT carrying on on my person this particular night. A female friend and I had been out to the movies and had a late dinner afterwards. Usually I'd have been carrying but due to the situation before the evening began, I opted to not carry. There was a gun on the car though. At the time of this incident, I had not applied for my CCDW so of course, there was no CC.
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    Quote Originally Posted by o-Marine-o View Post
    NO!, the checkpoints are not LEGAL, in fact they are illegal. The supreme court of the United States have even said they are illegal, but they allow them because of all the good they do.

    I dont give them consent for anything when I see one. I tell them what I am obligated to and then ask if I can go....
    DITTO GUTSHOT, HOWEVER I DID FIND THIS INFO:


    Michigan Department of State Police v. Rick Sitz (496 US 444)
    Facts:

    In 1986, the Michigan State Police Department created a sobriety checkpoint program

    aimed at reducing drunk driving within the state. The program included guidelines governing the location of roadblocks and the amount of publicity to be given to the operation. Before the first roadblock went into effect, Rick Sitz, a licensed Michigan driver, challenged the constitutionality of the checkpoints - he thought they were an unlawful invasion of his privacy. Sitz was victorious in the Michigan lower courts.

    Constitutional Issue:

    Did the drunk driving checkpoints violate motorists' privacy protected by the Fourth Amendment? (Fourth Amendment: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated . . . .")

    Conclusion:

    In a 6-to-3 decision, the Court held that the roadblocks did not violate the Fourth Amendment. The Court noted that "no one can seriously dispute the magnitude of the drunken driving problem or the States' interest in eradicating it." The Court then found that "the weight bearing on the other scale--the measure of the intrusion on motorists stopped briefly at sobriety checkpoints--is slight." The Court also found that empirical evidence supported the effectiveness of the program.

    Justices:

    Chief Justice Rehnquist
    Associate Justices White
    O'Connor
    Scalia
    Kennedy
    Blackmun
    Brennan
    Marshall
    Stevens

    AND THIS INFO REGARDING KSP, NOTE THE LAST LINE:

    Kentucky Seat Belt Law

    Effective July 12, 2006, Kentucky's seat belt law became a "primary" or standard enforcement law. This means that law enforcement officers can now stop a vehicle solely for an occupant restraint violation. Previously, Kentucky's law only allowed officers to cite for this violation if some other violation initiated the traffic stop.

    The new law resulted from House Bill 117, passed during the Kentucky General Assembly's 2006 regular legislative session.

    In summary, Kentucky's seat belt law specifies the following:

    •A person shall not operate a motor vehicle manufactured after 1981 on the public roadways of this state unless the driver and all passengers are wearing a properly adjusted and fastened seat belt (unless the passenger is a child of 40 inches or less in height - see additional requirement below)
    •If a person is unable to wear a seat belt for medical or physical reasons, they must have in their possession a written statement from a physician or licensed chiropractor.
    •A conviction for a seat belt violation shall not be transmitted by the court to the Transportation Cabinet for inclusion on a person's driving history record.
    •Any person who violates the provisions of Kentucky's seat belt law shall be fined an amount not to exceed twenty-five dollars ($25). This fine shall be subject to prepayment and shall not be subject to court costs.
    •Law enforcement agencies shall be prohibited from erecting roadblocks for the sole purpose of checking for seat belt use violations
    Last edited by Undertaker; 08-30-2010 at 04:27 PM. Reason: Additional Information

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    [QUOTE=gutshot;1342757]I don't know anything about this subject. Tell me more. What was the SCOTUS case? What are you obligated to do and what not?[/QUOTE]

    I went looking for it before I posted--it would have carried more weight.

    I couldn't find a case with Google Scholar (but didn't look long). I spent more time hunting the CheckPointUSA website--the guy who has all the Border Patrol encounter videos. No luck there, but again, it wasn't a long period of hunting.

    There may be something on FlexYourRights website.

    My problem is I've spent so much time reading, I've lost track of where I saw things.

    ETA: Here is something. No case cites, but its a start. http://www.flexyourrights.com/faq/162

    Also, Michigan v Sitz cites earlier cases internally. There may be some help there.
    Last edited by Citizen; 08-30-2010 at 08:07 PM.

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    the SCOTUS case is

    Cornell's Indianapolis v. Edmond (99-1030) 183 F.3d 659
    Last edited by o-Marine-o; 09-02-2010 at 03:41 PM.

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    Not a fan of ANY checkpoints. As already stated, shades of East Germany... "Your papers, please!" Keep going at this pace and soon we'll hear, "Zees papers are not in order!"

    Three years ago, I was driving a friend back to his place in Morehead after we had been shooting at the Clear Creek Range near Cave Run Lake. My pickup truck bed was about level with gun cases and shot-up targets, and there were a lot of guns inside the king cab, too. It was Memorial Day, and we hit a field sobriety checkpoint coming into Morehead.

    "You guys been shooting?"
    "Yes"
    "Uhh, OK... have a nice day."

    The KSP officer was polite and even friendly, as most of them are. I don't resent him at all. He's doing his job, and if we insist that any good guys can't be in the KSP then only jerks will be running the checkpoints, but I don't like checkpoints and I'm not in a happy chatty mood when my legal travel is impeded.

    My friend told me about driving his friend's car through a checkpoint, the KSP officer saw his CCW license and asked if they had any weapons in the car.

    "Yes."

    "For everyone's safety, would you put any weapons on the dashboard?"

    The KSP officer called a stop to it when there were eight handguns on the dash and they just kept getting bigger, and "we didn't even get to the long guns."

    I haven't done the routine where I'd ask:
    "Am I being detained?"
    "Then I'm free to go?"
    "Then I AM being detained?..."
    I'm probably close to doing that, though. Checkpoints almost push me to the point of civil disobedience, and I'm very irritated that the SCOTUS argues that the desire to prevent drunk driving is sufficient to stop everyone under the suspicion of guilt and force them to prove their innocence. That is NOT how America was intended to work.

    BTW - Illinois has so many checkpoints because... anyone? Anyone? Ferris Buehler? Yes, the answer we were looking for is ILLINOIS NAZIS. I hate Illinois Nazis.

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    HavN trouble locating this information... If I go through a checkpoint, when the officer asks for my license, do I have to give it to him? Or do I have to commit a violation first? I thought I remember reading somewhere that scotus ruled you couldn't stop a vehicle just to check for a valid dl- and doesn't these checkpoints have to be published in local media??

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    Remember I have been retired since 1998 so it might be different now. When I was workng, the Supreme Court said you had to have a method of holding a roadblock. It could not just be random. You could check everyone, every 5th car, every 10th car, etc. It also had to be approved by a supervisor and a few other things. As to the question of do I have to give my drivers license, I am only guessing, but if you are one of those non random selections, I think so.

    If you do decide to not do it though, let us know how it works out.

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    Regular Member Liberty4Ever's Avatar
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    I've read (from several reliable sources) that the law requires me to provide a driver's license when stopped while operating a motor vehicle in Kentucky, but I wouldn't be required to provide a motor vehicle operator's license if I wasn't operating a motor vehicle, however, I am required to identify myself if a police officer asks - full name and address. Police generally ask for ID. If I wasn't operating a motor vehicle, I'd politely tell them my name and I'd give them my address if requested. I believe they can pull up my driver's license in their police cars with that info, so this is probably a matter of standing on principle only. I feel it's important to stand on principle sometimes. Mindlessly obey everyone in authority and soon we'll have subcutaneous RFID tags so we can be scanned like a can of peas.

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    @Liberty: Could you please cite? I know you to be a very knowledgeable guy, but I was under the impression that KY was not a stop and identify state--meaning we do not even have to verbally ID ourselves unless we are operating a motor vehicle or the officer has RAS. I cannot find any KRS that would require one to verbally identify themselves at the officer's curiosity.

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    The reason Washington state does not have checkpoints is because of the Washington state constitution, Article 1 section 7.

    I wish more lawyers would just argue using their own states constitution, maybe they would prevail more often. I do know the Checkpoints are illegal here in WA because of the STATE constitution, not the US Constitution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flb_78 View Post
    This was just after noon. They only asked to see my driver's license and I was on my way.

    It's been a while since I have seen a check point. They're unconstitutional in Texas, but Illinois had plenty of them.

    At first I thought it was an accident and I was almost ready to turn around since I was on the bike, now Im glad I didn't as they probably would have chased me down and wrote me a ticket on some made up charge of avoiding a police check point.
    nothing against you FLB_78. IMO, un-warranted searches are unconstitutional through out the US. but government do them any way. if it is unconstitutional to search a house when no crime has been committed then it should be un-constitutional to search a person trying to find a crime. also IMO, these stops are just fund raisers any way
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Regular Member Liberty4Ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by langzaiguy View Post
    @Liberty: Could you please cite? I know you to be a very knowledgeable guy, but I was under the impression that KY was not a stop and identify state--meaning we do not even have to verbally ID ourselves unless we are operating a motor vehicle or the officer has RAS. I cannot find any KRS that would require one to verbally identify themselves at the officer's curiosity.
    I think this is the KRS requiring an operator of a motor vehicle to produce a valid driver's license.
    http://www.lrc.ky.gov/KRS/186-00/510.PDF

    The other part, about the need to verbally identify yourself to a peace officer... I couldn't find that in the KRS. I searched online, but I have trouble reading all of that legalese, and I have difficulty searching their database. I have an iPod app that was written by a Lexington police officer, and it supposedly makes it easy to search the KRS. Police officers use it when fillling out their reports. I'll try to check that.

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    I do know that in ky you do not have to identify yourself unless you are being detained for committing a crime, or a traffic violation I just wasn't sure on the dl at checkpoints, I figured you would have to but wasn't sure. Thanks for the help

  25. #25
    Regular Member KYKevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    I do know that in ky you do not have to identify yourself unless you are being detained for committing a crime, or a traffic violation I just wasn't sure on the dl at checkpoints, I figured you would have to but wasn't sure. Thanks for the help
    I have only been through 3 in the last few years. But I have never been asked to produce i.d.

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