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Thread: More news on the mosque---you ain't gonna like it.

  1. #1
    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    More news on the mosque---you ain't gonna like it.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE67Q5BW20100827

    (Reuters) - The Muslim center planned near the site of the World Trade Center attack could qualify for tax-free financing, a spokesman for City Comptroller John Liu said on Friday, and Liu is willing to consider approving the public subsidy.

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    No more upset than any other "not for profit" or religious institution getting tax exempt status.

    I do not the like the idea that they may qualify for a public subsidy either.

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    The only difference between this center and any other NPO or Religious organization is that it is Islamic.

    The only reason you care about this place and not the other 134f43oi3i344 organizations that fall in the same category is because its Islamic.

    I feel you only care that it's Islamic.

    If you truly had a problem with the tax exemptions granted to NPOs, like flb_78 or myself, you wouldn't single out this Islamic center for your concerns.

    BTW this was already addressed in the existing active thread on the Islamic center controversy.
    Last edited by simmonsjoe; 08-28-2010 at 08:03 PM.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
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    I am tired of hearing about the mosque. It is a trifle. Backround noise. Not worth, even faintly, getting the whole country up in rhetorical arms.

    If you want to get upset about something major, read a book called Economics in One Lesson by Henry Hazlett. Then research the Federal Reserve.

    Want to know who really wants your guns? The same guys whose entire economic System of Plunder depends on the Federal Reserve, its monetary policy, and its ability to counterfeit money out of thin air.

    Want to know who finances the on-going war against the rest of your Rights as an American, and the steady deterioration of the stable government you deserve under the Constitution? Research the Federal Reserve. The King cannot operate without money.
    Last edited by Citizen; 08-28-2010 at 08:17 PM.

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    true that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I am tired of hearing about the mosque. It is a trifle. Backround noise. Not worth, even faintly, getting the whole country up in rhetorical arms.

    If you want to get upset about something major, read a book called Economics in One Lesson by Henry Hazlett. Then research the Federal Reserve.

    Want to know who really wants your guns? The same guys whose entire economic System of Plunder depends on the Federal Reserve, its monetary policy, and its ability to counterfeit money out of thin air.

    Want to know who finances the on-going war against the rest of your Rights as an American, and the steady deterioration of the stable government you deserve under the Constitution? Research the Federal Reserve. The King cannot operate without money.
    I agree completely. Fiat money is simply fake. It has no actual value, only the value we collectively agree on. Even worse, this value can be manipulated WITHOUT the consent of those holding the currency. This is why I like to stockpile ammo. It has real value.

    A quick explanation and time-line of fiat money

    An interesting side-note, One thing the Qur'an actually does forbid, that you never hear about from the media, or even from so-called Muslim countries. The manipulation of fiat money or stock prices through the use of interest devices is not allowed. (This was 1400 years ago, mind you.) This is one of those things you can witness in your life TODAY, This INSTANT that is relevant to us, deeply. God warned us and we didn't listen.

    It's not like there aren't plenty of modern day examples we should have learned from in recent history.
    Last edited by simmonsjoe; 08-28-2010 at 10:36 PM.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
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    Quote Originally Posted by simmonsjoe View Post
    The only difference between this center and any other NPO or Religious organization is that it is Islamic.

    The only reason you care about this place and not the other 134f43oi3i344 organizations that fall in the same category is because its Islamic.

    I feel you only care that it's Islamic.

    If you truly had a problem with the tax exemptions granted to NPOs, like flb_78 or myself, you wouldn't single out this Islamic center for your concerns.

    BTW this was already addressed in the existing active thread on the Islamic center controversy.
    The reason I care about it is - I've attended Muslim Juma services (Friday prayer). For years, as part of my job, I heard the hatred poured out to those attending - hatred about the "Blue eyed Devils", who must be destroyed.

    They can build that Islamic Center elsewhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by simmonsjoe View Post
    SNIP Fiat money is simply fake. It has no actual value, only the value we collectively agree on. Even worse, this value can be manipulated WITHOUT the consent of those holding the currency. This is why I like to stockpile ammo. It has real value.

    A quick explanation and time-line of fiat money
    Thanks for the links and sources.

    One important little point--I did not see a defintion of "fiat money." For unfamiliar readers I will explain it awkwardly here:

    In the term fiat money the word fiat has the same meaning as in government decree. Fiat is just another word for decree. Thus fiat money is a medium of exchange decreed by government as the money of the country. By decree we mean the government just up and says so. The key point is that, by decree, you are locked-in to accepting whatever is the decreed form of money.

    In our country, the paper money says, "This Note Is Legal Tender For All Debts, Public And Private." There you go. Now, you are locked-in by government decree.

    And, you are locked-in, even when the government or central bank--The Federal Reserve--screws up the value of the currency through inflation, excessive assumption of debt (Congress), or deflation--scarcity of actual money.

    So, when SimmonsJoe said fiat money is fake, he was referring to the fact that fiat money only has value because the government just up and said so. And, as he pointed out, it can be manipulated without the consent of the citizens who hold the currency. Or, rather, its value can be manipulated without the consent of the citizens who are forced to hold and use it by government decree.

    The manipulation modernly is to print or electronically create too much, inflating the amount of money in existence, and thus creating rising prices, thus reducing the value/purchasing power of the money already in existence, quietly robbing you of the value of your savings and the effort you put into earning it.
    Last edited by Citizen; 08-28-2010 at 11:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by simmonsjoe View Post
    SNIP An interesting side-note, One thing the Qur'an actually does forbid, that you never hear about from the media, or even from so-called Muslim countries. The manipulation of fiat money or stock prices through the use of interest devices is not allowed. (This was 1400 years ago, mind you.)
    I have come across a report that the Byzantine Empire experienced 900 years of economic stability precisely because they did not monkey with the money which for them was gold. From 400s AD to 1300s AD.

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    At least it's not coming out of my pocket.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 19Daniel91 View Post
    At least it's not coming out of my pocket.
    *facepalm*
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
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    Meh, I'm over it. While I don't think it's very classy of them to put a mosque there I can't say they don't have that right. That's the price of Liberty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GWbiker View Post
    The reason I care about it is - I've attended Muslim Juma services (Friday prayer). For years, as part of my job, I heard the hatred poured out to those attending - hatred about the "Blue eyed Devils", who must be destroyed.

    They can build that Islamic Center elsewhere.
    ********. You lie. "Blue eyed devils" was a term coined by the black supremacist Elijah Poole. Muslims HATE Elijah Poole. Most Muslims (including me) believe he had Malcolm X murdered. (Malcolm X became Muslim and denounced Elijah as a false prophet, and denounced racism shortly before his death.) Also there are Muslims of all colors of skin and eyes.

    You never heard that in a masjid. You may have heard it at a 'Nation of Islam' temple.
    (Nation of Islam ≠ Islam. Don't be fooled by the name.)
    But if that was your job you'd know the difference.
    Last edited by simmonsjoe; 08-29-2010 at 03:23 AM.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I have come across a report that the Byzantine Empire experienced 900 years of economic stability precisely because they did not monkey with the money which for them was gold. From 400s AD to 1300s AD.
    Meanwhile we've been here a few hundred years, but our economists know how to make it work. (I think it involves smoke and mirrors.)

    Then again, I'm not sure if crashing the system isn't their intention.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
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    My opinion is that building this Mosque there is morally wrong. It was actually hit by a wheel assembly of one of the planes that flew into one of the towers. So in affect it IS Ground Zero. Building this mosque there is like building a Shinto shrine on top of the Arizona in Pearl Harbor. Why is it that ONLY Americans must show religious tolerance? I say that when we Christians, or for that matter the Jewish faith can build a Christian Church or Jewish Temple in Mecca or Medina then the Muslims can build that Mosque in Ground Zero. We as INFIDELS are not even allowed to enter Mecca or Medina because our FEET are (unclean) give me a break. Talk about intolerance, I'm being politically correct as I possibly can. I am personally so angry,,well,,I'd use an old Army phrase if I thought it wouldn't incite a riot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsx1138 View Post
    Meh, I'm over it. While I don't think it's very classy of them to put a mosque there I can't say they don't have that right. That's the price of Liberty.
    There's that strawman. NO ONE is saying that they do not have the right. EVERY ONE agrees that they have the right. That is not the point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by simmonsjoe View Post
    *facepalm*
    Sorry if my comment confused you.

    At least it's not coming out of my pocket.
    I was referring to the actual funding of the mosque, seeing how much our government loves the idea of its existence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by simmonsjoe View Post
    ********. You lie. "Blue eyed devils" was a term coined by the black supremacist Elijah Poole. Muslims HATE Elijah Poole. Most Muslims (including me) believe he had Malcolm X murdered. (Malcolm X became Muslim and denounced Elijah as a false prophet, and denounced racism shortly before his death.) Also there are Muslims of all colors of skin and eyes.

    You never heard that in a masjid. You may have heard it at a 'Nation of Islam' temple.
    (Nation of Islam ≠ Islam. Don't be fooled by the name.)
    But if that was your job you'd know the difference.
    I saw several Iman (non black) replaced because of their racist sermons. Yes, it was a "Nation of Islam" Temple where the weekly Friday prayer was attended by mostly black men, but the hatred came from a non black Muslim from the established Muslim community.

    There is hatred among the Muslim people, and you and others like you should publicly denounce that hatred spewed by the radical factions.

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GWbiker View Post
    I saw several Iman (non black) replaced because of their racist sermons. Yes, it was a "Nation of Islam" Temple where the weekly Friday prayer was attended by mostly black men, but the hatred came from a non black Muslim from the established Muslim community.

    There is hatred among the Muslim people, and you and others like you should publicly denounce that hatred spewed by the radical factions.
    You don't ******* know me or how many times I've denounced them. Because you don't want to hear. Don't tell me who I am or what I'm like. Especially when you've just been proven a lying sack.

    I still call you a liar. You didn't see a non-black in a Nation temple, unless they were attempting to convert people, or buying crack. Since there are only Nation temples in the US, you've pretty much admitted you spied on American citizens as well.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 19Daniel91 View Post
    Sorry if my comment confused you.



    I was referring to the actual funding of the mosque, seeing how much our government loves the idea of its existence.
    If they receive tax exempt status, you are funding them, man.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
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    You hit on something there. Whenever something evil is done in the name of Islam, Muslims who call themselves moderate rush to remind us not to hate all Muslims. You don't hear a lot of denunciation of the Muslims they call extremist.

    I have no doubt that some Muslims' initial reaction is horror at the acts of Islamic terrorists. However, based on the reactions from most, more than speaking out against terrorism in the name of Islam, they worry that all Muslims will be hated.

    Ironically, that tack generates some hate on the whole religion.

    Disclaimer: If you read my words carefully, you will notice that this is an analysis and projects no hate on Islam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by simmonsjoe View Post
    ********. You lie.
    I always try to leave these out of my posts. I've found they just antagonize the recipient; and, generally paint me as crude or simplistic to other readers.

    I prefer everybody to have to work to figure out how simplistic I really am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post

    I prefer everybody to have to work to figure out how simplistic I really am.
    Never even break a sweat on that one.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    SNIP Disclaimer: If you read my words carefully, you will notice that this is an analysis and projects no hate on Islam.
    Yes, but does your horse hate Islam? I mean, they wouldn't let him drink, you know.


    PS: We have to be a little careful how we use "moderates not denouncing" argument. As an argumentative tactic, it can be pointed back at us for not effectively demanding Congress stop the CIA meddling overseas, Yankee imperialism (such as it is), etc., and so on, and so forth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Never even break a sweat on that one.
    LOL!

    Where have you been lurking? Haven't heard from you for a while.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    LOL!

    Where have you been lurking? Haven't heard from you for a while.
    Caught the newest and latest PC virus/malware out there - just got it back on steroids.

    Suspect it was beamed from one of the anti, terrorist enclaves with their secret laboratories masquerading as cultural centers.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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