More news on the mosque---you ain't gonna like it.

eye95 · Aug 29, 2010

Now, that is a distinction without a difference. Liberty does not exist in transactions that are what you see as "commercial" and not in those that are not. Neither is the converse true.

Either we have the Liberty to convince others to do something, or we have no real Liberty. By your standard, the Founders were violating the Liberty of others by convincing them that Independence was a cause they should work toward.

I am sorry, your premise is flawed in the fundamental. If you hang on to it, you, of course, can justify any argument. If you dispose of it, you will be arguing for Liberty.

If you hang on to that flawed premise, discussion with you on this topic would be a colossal waste of time.

So, I will move on. Dispose of that contradictory axiom, and we can continue discussing. Moving on for now.

sudden valley gunner · Aug 30, 2010

Citizen said:
Good heavens, Joe. We all know that. Eye95 and I were having a side discussion. It started with me commenting about the usefulness of a particular argumentative tactic, as compared to justification for terrorism.

Eye95 seems to think there is no American Imperialism, or nothing sufficiently similar to justify the label. I've discussed with him before and know his talent for staying attached to his existing ideas, so I think I'll let it end here. No point in getting into an argument about it.

I'm visiting my family in the great state of Hawaii. No American Imperialism? Ask the locals about that.

Oh or ask my native american family members who tell a slightlty different version of U.S. History.

Or you can look into how upset many in congress and U.S. where when Jefferson Purchased the Louisiana territory from France. Many People felt this was unconstitutional, imperialistic and made us look like the Europeans we were trying so hard to be different from.

The past is past what is done is done we move forward. But to not be honest about U.S.'s wrongs or actions of the past tends to allow us to not be honest about it's current policies.

I read End the Fed by Ron Paul a few months ago, great book, he simplifies and shows how wrong fiat money and a Fed with no oversight is.

END_THE_FED · Aug 30, 2010

Citizen said:
I am tired of hearing about the mosque. It is a trifle. Backround noise. Not worth, even faintly, getting the whole country up in rhetorical arms.

If you want to get upset about something major, read a book called Economics in One Lesson by Henry Hazlett. Then research the Federal Reserve.

Want to know who really wants your guns? The same guys whose entire economic System of Plunder depends on the Federal Reserve, its monetary policy, and its ability to counterfeit money out of thin air.

Want to know who finances the on-going war against the rest of your Rights as an American, and the steady deterioration of the stable government you deserve under the Constitution? Research the Federal Reserve. The King cannot operate without money.

"Give me control over a nation's currency and I care not who makes its laws." -Mayer Amschel Rothschild

"All the perplexities, confusion and distresses in America arise not from defects in the constitution or confederation, nor from want of honor or virtue, as much from downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit, and circulation." – John Adams

"History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance."
-James Madison

"Whoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and commerce."
-James A. Garfield, President of the United States

END_THE_FED · Aug 30, 2010

sudden valley gunner said:
I'm visiting my family in the great state of Hawaii. No American Imperialism? Ask the locals about that.

Oh or ask my native american family members who tell a slightlty different version of U.S. History.

Or you can look into how upset many in congress and U.S. where when Jefferson Purchased the Louisiana territory from France. Many People felt this was unconstitutional, imperialistic and made us look like the Europeans we were trying so hard to be different from.

The past is past what is done is done we move forward. But to not be honest about U.S.'s wrongs or actions of the past tends to allow us to not be honest about it's current policies.

I read End the Fed by Ron Paul a few months ago, great book, he simplifies and shows how wrong fiat money and a Fed with no oversight is.

You should also check out "The revolution: A Manifesto" another great book by DR. Ron Paul

Sonora Rebel · Aug 30, 2010

NYC is union controlled. Nothing happens w/o the unions. Good luck building the thing... No tradesmen will touch it.. No truckers will deliver materials to it. No crane operator will support it. No scab would dare.

Maybe Alia Baba will rub his magic lamp 'n the thing will appear. That's prob'ly the only way that thing will be built.

ISLAM DELENDA EST!

19Daniel91 · Aug 30, 2010

simmonsjoe said:
If they receive tax exempt status, you are funding them, man.

Only to the point of the tax exempted which nonprofit places usually can get. I'm talking about the real funding. The money used for the construction, the materials, the workers, and so on.

19Daniel91 · Aug 30, 2010

What about the Church?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/08/17/ground-zero-church-archdiocese-says-officials-forgot/

What about the church that got destroyed? How come that wasn't allowed to get rebuilt?

gsx1138 · Aug 30, 2010

eye95 said:
There's that strawman. NO ONE is saying that they do not have the right. EVERY ONE agrees that they have the right. That is not the point. :banghead:

Yeah, ok. NO ONE and EVERY ONE. Thanks for trying to point out my strawman while using an 'argument of omniscience'.

It is my opinion that this whole event is just a dog and pony show to keep us from focusing on the government, economy, and what Brad Pitt thinks about BP oil executives.

eye95 · Aug 30, 2010

gsx1138 said:
Yeah, ok. NO ONE and EVERY ONE. Thanks for trying to point out my strawman while using an 'argument of omniscience'.

It is my opinion that this whole event is just a dog and pony show to keep us from focusing on the government, economy, and what Brad Pitt thinks about BP oil executives.

If you think that someone here is saying that they do not have the right to build the mosque, please quote the post and rebuke the poster for having said so. I will stand along with you, joining in on the rebuke.

NRAMARINE · Aug 30, 2010

I think at this point everyone knows it won't get built there.

#1 No one will work on it. Those lovely unions will have a kiniption.

#2 They will get protested and blocked off ( if you can get anyone to work on it) everyday.

#3 They never really expected to build it there. This was a ploy to allow them to rant about our "intolerance" of a religion that sanctifies murdering, abusing, raping andmutilation of women. Not to mention modern day slavery.

We get pissed, they get to whine to the left etc. The strange thing is that when you think about it the left would be the most persecuted under sharia law. They don't have a lot of tolerance for gays, athiests, or loud mouth women. How long does Rachel Maddow or Nancy Pelosi think they would last in say....Iran?

Tawnos · Aug 30, 2010

NRAMARINE said:
I think at this point everyone knows it won't get built there.

#1 No one will work on it. Those lovely unions will have a kiniption.

#2 They will get protested and blocked off ( if you can get anyone to work on it) everyday.

#3 They never really expected to build it there. This was a ploy to allow them to rant about our "intolerance" of a religion that sanctifies murdering, abusing, raping andmutilation of women. Not to mention modern day slavery.

We get pissed, they get to whine to the left etc. The strange thing is that when you think about it the left would be the most persecuted under sharia law. They don't have a lot of tolerance for gays, athiests, or loud mouth women. How long does Rachel Maddow or Nancy Pelosi think they would last in say....Iran?

I'm an atheist, and calling it like I see it: those who oppose this cultural center are simply firing another blow in the bigot-on-bigot religious war that has been going back and forth for centuries. When will one side man up and stop being petty. With the exception of this awesome group of christians last week, the rest of the people who are making so much noise about this being "insensitive" or whatever cockamamie line is being touted are being hypocrites and dbags.

NRAMARINE · Aug 30, 2010

It's simple really. Most people raise their flags when they conquer someone. Muslims BUILD MOSQUES. That's what they are " Trying " to do. This has nothing to do with religion persay, this is a war of cultures. Look at the dome of the rock, the last time Jerusalem was taken by muslims, the first thing they did was tear down the temple, and build a mosque on the same spot. They equate those towers as a temple to imperialism and capitalism, by destroying them and then later building a mosque there they are attempting to send a message to the west, and at the same time embolden others who would attack us. You have to understand that they have a very feudal mindset. They don't care if you're an athiest, gay, black, white or whatever who supports them. They consider you a fool and kill you just the same.

Hunterdave · Aug 30, 2010

NRAMARINE said:
.
. The strange thing is that when you think about it the left would be the most persecuted under sharia law. They don't have a lot of tolerance for gays, athiests, or loud mouth women. How long does Rachel Maddow or Nancy Pelosi think they would last in say....Iran?

You nailed that!!!
+1000

19Daniel91 · Aug 31, 2010

Tawnos said:
I'm an atheist, and calling it like I see it: those who oppose this cultural center are simply firing another blow in the bigot-on-bigot religious war that has been going back and forth for centuries. When will one side man up and stop being petty. With the exception of this awesome group of christians last week, the rest of the people who are making so much noise about this being "insensitive" or whatever cockamamie line is being touted are being hypocrites and dbags.

Just keep in mind there are atheists who oppose this mosque too.

Tawnos · Aug 31, 2010

NRAMARINE said:
It's simple really. Most people raise their flags when they conquer someone. Muslims BUILD MOSQUES. That's what they are " Trying " to do. This has nothing to do with religion persay, this is a war of cultures. Look at the dome of the rock, the last time Jerusalem was taken by muslims, the first thing they did was tear down the temple, and build a mosque on the same spot. They equate those towers as a temple to imperialism and capitalism, by destroying them and then later building a mosque there they are attempting to send a message to the west, and at the same time embolden others who would attack us. You have to understand that they have a very feudal mindset. They don't care if you're an athiest, gay, black, white or whatever who supports them. They consider you a fool and kill you just the same.

Odd, I thought they were building a cultural center that has an area that can be used for prayer. Kind of like a YMCA. Are you really telling me that the person who is building this, the same one who has worked with FBI anti-terrorism groups and helps fund inter-cultural relationship events, is waving his dick around and saying "woo go terrorism?" It's pretty dumb when you actually consider the people who are involved in this, and not the stereotype of them you hold in your head.

NRAMARINE · Aug 31, 2010

Do you mean to tell me they're not lying? Follow the money and you will see where this guy's loyalty lies. I spent 4 years in the mideast, I don't know everything about them, however I do have a working knowledge of their methods and mentality.

END_THE_FED · Aug 31, 2010

I recently found out that one of the main investors of the Mosque/Community Center is a major stockholder of News Corp. He has a 7% stake in the company. Did anyone know this?

http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/i...i-prince-and-the-ground-zero-mosque/19593554/

eye95 · Aug 31, 2010

I am shocked. A rich Arab thinks that News Corp is a good stock. He also chooses to invest in the mosque at Ground Zero.

OMG! It's a conspiracy!

slowfiveoh · Aug 31, 2010

NRAMARINE said:
Do you mean to tell me they're not lying? Follow the money and you will see where this guy's loyalty lies. I spent 4 years in the mideast, I don't know everything about them, however I do have a working knowledge of their methods and mentality.

I share your reluctant perspective.

People do not understand the significance to their culture. We say, "Eh who cares?". They jump and shout in triumphant glee.

sudden valley gunner · Aug 31, 2010

eye95 said:
i am shocked. A rich arab thinks that news corp is a good stock. He also chooses to invest in the mosque at ground zero.

Omg! It's a conspiracy!

lol....

More news on the mosque---you ain't gonna like it.

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