A request for members of the Tennessee forum

Please see this note:

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...s-in-his-car&p=1338385&viewfull=1#post1338385

It seems that any thread which Kwik starts or which deals with his legal issues immediately leads to an argument. So ... my new procedure is to immediately close any Kwik thread when the first insult is thrown.

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I'd go even further. I'd say any thread in which Kwik posts an opinion, or is even mentioned by reference, his detractors start in immediately with the attacks.

Look, folks, here's my request: if you think Kwik is a troll, do what we do to all trolls: ignore him. Back in the USENET days, we called it PISS.

No matter how bothersome or irritating he is, the notion that he's some personal enemy of yours because you hate him, his style of activism, his choice of guns and carry methods, and even his dog... well, that's just childish. Grow up. If you don't like him or what he's doing, there's nothing wrong with saying so, if you say so politely. But setting out to discredit and destroy him makes it a personal attack, no matter how craftily you word your replies to avoid using insults or bad language.

Hmmm.

Both sides for and against Kwikrnu's have posters who attack.

Personal attacks are generated by a specific few who, for some reason, cannot get the rules into their heads. There are a few who do not understand discussion does not include name calling, belittling, and being derogatory.

Kwik is a foil. He is a lightening rod, due to his firm belief he is doing the right thing, whether or not truth and logic seem to be on his side.

True, I have seen, and responded negatively, to the type of attack your acronym stands for.

However, singling out one side, and ignoring the other side, who act the same, is the only issue with your post...

HvyMtl said:

Hmmm.

Both sides for and against Kwikrnu's have posters who attack.

Personal attacks are generated by a specific few who, for some reason, cannot get the rules into their heads. There are a few who do not understand discussion does not include name calling, belittling, and being derogatory.

Kwik is a foil. He is a lightening rod, due to his firm belief he is doing the right thing, whether or not truth and logic seem to be on his side.

True, I have seen, and responded negatively, to the type of attack your acronym stands for.

However, singling out one side, and ignoring the other side, who act the same, is the only issue with your post...

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You have only been here an extremely short amount of time.
You have repeatedly sided in said debates, with kwiks detractors.

You should do yourself a favor (and this is meant politely), and go back to the beginning of this entire ordeal on here, and read the commentary.

I specifically have expressed my polite intentions towards you, jadon, or any other poster who posted in an intelligible manner, only to be denigrated when I take the time, consideration, and effort, into putting together a point/counterpoint argument.

It seems specifically deliberate to insult me, especially after I have made said insightful replies. Especially after lengthy posts of articulated information that is completely applicable to the discussion at hand.



So again, to any user who claims to know what has occurred here (HvyMtl etc.), yet feels worthy to reply as if they had been following this string of shifting debates since the beginning, PLEASE go back to the beginning and look at what has occurred.

To truncate:

--I am purportedly the next Nidal Hassan
--I am purportedly the next Jeffery Dalmer
--I am apparently psychotic
--I apparently sit behind my keyboard, and do nothing for the 2nd Amendment
--I apparently worship kwik

The ongoing list is endless.

I have near endless patience, but some people on here seek merely to invoke an emotional response.

I think KBcraig has some great advice. If you think kwik, or even I, am a troll, then just don't bother to debate.

I see a dude who is operating within the law, approaching his government for redress of grievances in his own manner.

Some of you may not believe it to be done in a safe manner, while some others (myself included) believe his approach is just fine.

Believe it or not, some people didn't like what St. John did either.

Your line of "rational" doesn't need to match up with everyone else for this world to make sense. Pop your bubble. Get outside of your security net. Don't be scared to give the man next to you more elbow room than you may give yourself.

THAT is what freedom is all about.

Realizing that we may not always see eye to eye, and that our lines of "perceived rationality" may differ greatly is one of the most important realizations anybody can come to terms with.

Remember. One cannot fall in line with "that which is most free", so long as we mistake "Liberty" or "Freedom" for "societal norms".

I am not saying to give up your beliefs. I am simply saying to not force them on others. Give the common man more liberty than you may impose upon yourself.


As Forrest would say, "That's all I have to say about that..."

This is my last post on this forum. I'm tired of putting up with anti-gun moderators who edit and delete my posts and posters who join to follow me around and bash me. I've shared details, videos, audio, and commented on my open carry experiences and I get bashed for it. I've went around and taken photographs of illegal signs, posted case law, AG opinions, and current complaints from Tennessee. Not once, but twice has the State illegally revoked and suspended my handgun carry permit. I have been detained illegally and forced to sue to defend my fundamental civil rights. I have been defamed by forum members who state I have been arrested for domestic violence. Those same forum members are protected by admin who seem not to care about the blatent lies. As a legal open carrier I have reached the limit I will take from a forum which, in name only, supports open carry.

kwikrnu said:

This is my last post on this forum. I'm tired of putting up with anti-gun moderators who edit and delete my posts and posters who join to follow me around and bash me. I've shared details, videos, audio, and commented on my open carry experiences and I get bashed for it. I've went around and taken photographs of illegal signs, posted case law, AG opinions, and current complaints from Tennessee. Not once, but twice has the State illegally revoked and suspended my handgun carry permit. I have been detained illegally and forced to sue to defend my fundamental civil rights. I have been defamed by forum members who state I have been arrested for domestic violence. Those same forum members are protected by admin who seem not to care about the blatent lies. As a legal open carrier I have reached the limit I will take from a forum which, in name only, supports open carry.

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Oh, so now the moderators of this forum are editing your posts as well? This is the first I've heard... No one forced you to sue anyone Kwik. You stating that you have been defamed, yet you are the most defaming person on here… that’s hysterical!! It sounds like to me the moderators stepped up and decided not to be a part of your monetary gain adventures any longer. Good for them. Just because they (opencarry) don’t give you others personal information doesn't mean they don't support open carry...

Nice "final" post though.

Fail.

August 25th was the date all discovery documents were to be filed with the court in Leonard's suit against Ranger Ward according to the Case Management Order NO. 1, which you can read here - http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/tennessee/tnmdce/3:2010cv00126/46864/8/0.pdf

Wonder if something filed by the TN AG in that case has upset Leonard?

Hmm. One of my first posts, I asked a simple, easy to answer question to Kwikrnu. Simple requests for facts backing his position... His response, "I am putting you on ignore..."

Slow, I have never had a post deleted for name calling, belittling, and being derogatory. Others posting here cannot say that...

I asked other simple questions, like proof there was more to his claims than is own actions and opinions. (Examples in the Anti- gun republican post, the anti-gun sheriff post, etc.) And got nothing back. Not one site, not one source pointing towards support of the opinions they were anti-gun.

I have even defended Kwikrnu's right to post in other threads:
see post #9 http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?79222-Does-carry-impact-your-voting
see post #3 http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...loses-gun-in-Franklin-movie-theater-July-2010

Slow, I do take difference to this statement:"I see a dude who is operating within the law." No Sir, Open Carry in a public library, which, by law, is a forbidden carry location, is not operating within the law...

So, now Kwikrnu wants to leave this forum? Well. Too bad. Some of his posts, whether I agreed with them or not, have been quite informative, though perhaps not in the manner he intended... Some of his posts have been quite fine, and I even agreed with... and supported (again see post #9 referenced above...)

So, now I will have to look elsewhere to see how well or not well his court proceedings go.

RussP: Unclear. But, they will definitely hit him with stuff he does not like during a settlement meeting, if it occurs. I expect a motion for dismissal by the AG... at the pretrial conference.

HvyMtl said:

Hmm. One of my first posts, I asked a simple, easy to answer question to Kwikrnu. Simple requests for facts backing his position... His response, "I am putting you on ignore..."

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There is no 'ignore button' in the courtroom.

RussP: Unclear. But, they will definitely hit him with stuff he does not like during a settlement meeting, if it occurs. I expect a motion for dismissal by the AG... at the pretrial conference.

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I think it is very interesting that Leonard canceled his YouTube account and took down all the photos and images of the documents posted here and elsewhere.

Perhaps Leonard finally realizes he should have not posted what he did and worked things out differently, quieter, less publicly as some early on suggested.

I believe Kwik found discovery is a major B****. They will be requesting some pretty invasive information. If he does not reply truthfully and on time, he can be held in contempt. Further, if he has irritated the AG and defense (which I would not be surprised) expect them to be quite hard to deal with when he tries to use discovery. Example: Kwik asks for a specific 1 page document, he receives it, in a pallet full of documents. It has happened before...

Sorry, OP for the off topic digression...

RussP said:

There is no 'ignore button' in the courtroom.I think it is very interesting that Leonard canceled his YouTube account and took down all the photos and images of the documents posted here and elsewhere.

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Ah, yes very interesting indeed. Wait, he doesn't and hasn't ever done that remember?

HvyMtl said:

...Some of his posts, whether I agreed with them or not, have been quite informative, though perhaps not in the manner he intended... Some of his posts have been quite fine, and I even agreed with... and supported (again see post #9 referenced above...)

So, now I will have to look elsewhere to see how well or not well his court proceedings go...

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For right now he's here... http://kahrtalk.com/rkba-discussion/2945-i-sued-tennessee-over-ccw.html

At least now that Kwik has stated that he is no longer going to post here, we should see the creepy stalkers, who were only here to attack and harass a member here, slink back under their bridges and leave the forum to those of us who actually care about gun rights and open carry.

It's a shame we have to lose a member who actually cares about gun rights, but if his loss also means the loss of half a dozen (or more) creepy stalkers, then that's a fair trade imo. I really think this could have been handled better by the mods/admins (such as permanently banning each and every poster involved who can be shown to only post when attacking a particular member here,) but it's their site and their call.

HvyMtl said:

Hmmm.

Both sides for and against Kwikrnu's have posters who attack.

Personal attacks are generated by a specific few who, for some reason, cannot get the rules into their heads. There are a few who do not understand discussion does not include name calling, belittling, and being derogatory.

Kwik is a foil. He is a lightening rod, due to his firm belief he is doing the right thing, whether or not truth and logic seem to be on his side.

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Oh, the irony. In one sentence, you criticize those who resort to personal attacks, specifically mentioning "name calling" as one of the offenses. Then, in the very next sentence, you call a poster a name. In the very next sentence after that, you call him another name.

So, using your own words, does this mean that you can't "get the rules into your head?" Does this mean that you don't understand that discussion does not include "name calling?"

LV XD9 said:

Oh, the irony. In one sentence, you criticize those who resort to personal attacks, specifically mentioning "name calling" as one of the offenses. Then, in the very next sentence, you call a poster a name. In the very next sentence after that, you call him another name.

So, using your own words, does this mean that you can't "get the rules into your head?" Does this mean that you don't understand that discussion does not include "name calling?"

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It was not name calling dude. He was describing Kwik.
There is plenty of name calling in the Kwik drama but "foil" and "lightning rod" are not a party to it.

FOIL
3
: someone or something that serves as a contrast to another

LIGHTNING ROD
3
: one that is a frequent target of criticism or focus of controvers


Edit for reference:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/netdict/foil (3)
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lightning rod

Nothing like RussP stating "Oh look kwik is over there at kahrtalk." hours before he "randomly shows up" in kwiks thread over there and acts as if he were merely looking for info for a 1911. :lol:

I agree with the creepy stalker comment, and only ask for equality. Ban me if you like, but do not ignore the grievances of others because you simply side with or favor their opinion.

Pretty simple, and realistic request.

Logic eludes a lot of people. Nobody here who opposes kwik, can accept the mishandling by law enforcement in any capacity during their lambasting of kwik.

A cop holds a firearm he is unfamiliar with towards a country club for almost a minute during a stop, and people seriously have sat here and tried to abdicate the entire event.

Worse than that, it is apparently kwiks fault.

Nothing can be said now that changes this raw, self evident, and vibrant reality.







Stalker detected...

slowfiveoh said:

Nothing like RussP stating "Oh look kwik is over there at kahrtalk." hours before he "randomly shows up" in kwiks thread over there and acts as if he were merely looking for info for a 1911. :lol:

I agree with the creepy stalker comment, and only ask for equality. Ban me if you like, but do not ignore the grievances of others because you simply side with or favor their opinion.

Pretty simple, and realistic request.

Logic eludes a lot of people. Nobody here who opposes kwik, can accept the mishandling by law enforcement in any capacity during their lambasting of kwik.

A cop holds a firearm he is unfamiliar with towards a country club for almost a minute during a stop, and people seriously have sat here and tried to abdicate the entire event.

Worse than that, it is apparently kwiks fault.

Nothing can be said now that changes this raw, self evident, and vibrant reality.


Stalker detected...

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Sad, isn't it? To be so infatuated, so obsessed, so enamored with a person to constantly stalk him from site to site and thread to thread... wow. What a sad, pathetic existence that must be...

Like I said before - at least the creepy stalkers will end up over there instead of trolling here. It's a shame we had to lose Kwik in order to get that accomplished, but I suppose it comes back to the old saying about how you can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs. I would be shocked if most of Kwik's stalkers were still actively posting here a month from now.

slowfiveoh said:

...

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LV XD9 said:

...

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I really hope one day you understand. Right now, you do not.

Sorry if you misinterpreted. That was not name calling... I was describing Kwik as a "lightening rod and foil" due to the fact he drew a lot of attention, warranted or not. Note: I called him "foil," not "fool." There is a difference.

Again, I have not had one post removed by moderators due to name calling...

Personally, I find it odd of him to be posting, not due to what he was doing, but because he is suing... And his posts could be used against him in Court... Any paralegal will do a simple google search on his name and nickname(s) and will find some posts which will not translate well for Kwikrnu in front of the Judge...

My suggestion to him would be to not post until after his legal actions are complete.

CBCraig, it seems there are some who wont listen. I am sorry, seems you will not get your wish.

HvyMtl said:

Again, I have not had one post removed by moderators due to name calling...

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Simply elaborating that this is not a badge of honor you are wearing about. While I agree you have abided by the rules and will continue in all likelihood to do so, your constant reiteration of this point is unnecessary.

For both sides, this has been a lengthly process, and has taken its toll on all involved.

You are rather new to this.

Not an attack, just a fact, as well as a friendly reminder.

HvyMtl said:

Personally, I find it odd of him to be posting, not due to what he was doing, but because he is suing... And his posts could be used against him in Court... Any paralegal will do a simple google search on his name and nickname(s) and will find some posts which will not translate well for Kwikrnu in front of the Judge...

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I have iterated in the past that as a network engineer that the process to prove any individual is in fact the person behind the keyboard is so lengthly and convoluted that it is not likely to be used as substantiating evidence.

Stating that it will "not look good in front of a judge" is ultimately meaningless. Nobody can prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that it was Leonard Embody behind the keyboard. Any one of us could hop a proxy to Tennessee, or anywhere else, and bounce back to some forum under the username "kwikrnu".

It CAN be done, as I have stated in the past, but it is, again, so involved in process, as well as so late in the course of things that proving Leonard posted anything is highly unlikely.

IF they had subpoenaed him the day of the postings, they might have gotten something.

If they did not, that's too bad.

HvyMtl said:

My suggestion to him would be to not post until after his legal actions are complete.

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The point for this kind of interactivity with law enforcement, is to maintain a level profile of sorts. If not to talk about the ongoing facets of his case, what would you suggest he do to maintain his presence?

HvyMtl said:

CBCraig, it seems there are some who wont listen. I am sorry, seems you will not get your wish.

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None of us have to call names etc.

Again, however, and I am sure I speak for both sides of the contentious debate when I say this:

You have not been here for nearly the amount of time that we have. This topic of conversation has taken its toll on various members.

I think it's good it's simmering down now, and I do believe KBCraig has a point.