I am from Washington state where you can OC loaded just about everywhere. I got ststioned at Camp Pendelton about 5 months ago and have yet to work up the courage to UOC so I don't down here. I still ask every cop when I get the chance, what his opinion is on OC and if he has encountered it before. .This weekend I visited a friends family in Victorville and we were invited to a BBQ by one of their friends. Turns out this guy is a Pamona LEO. I eventually squeezed OC into the nights conversation asking him if he has ever encountered it in his 23 years as a LEO. He said that he had not but did have this to say; "You know in California you can carry a gun on your hip in a holster in plain view, its totally legal. So you got this group of people who do this with their sole intent being to provoke the police into an encounter then sue them for whatever. The kicker is that the gun has to be unloaded...hahahaha. I would like to show them how useless an unloaded gun is when I put one square in their dome. What a bunch of idiots." I was furious but I had to bite my tongue so as not to get into a giant debate and ruin the evening for my friends family. Unbelievable.
Sounds like our good friend Rod Tuason's facebook comments.
I think in that context I would have said, "So as a sworn peace officer, you advocate using lethal force against those who you know cannot retaliate?
I realize that there are alot of good cops out there, but these guys that keep popping up and saying they would like to teach open carriers a lesson is making me less apt to be friendly during an enounter.
New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...
NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW
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Sounds like we need to set up an OC meet in Pomona. I used to live there about 10 years ago, one of the worst areas you can live, you would think with all the violent crime they would encourage OC'ing. But it's LA County sowhat do you expect
If someone in that area wants to start working with the local PD and find an OC friendly location I bet several from South Bay OC would come out to the event.
Thank you for your post.
The LEO versus civilian attitude is starting to be noticed by us civilians. I've noticed it. We had an IDPA stage last month modeled on an officer needing help. During the walk through, I heard questions asking which agency and department. Their image has fallen pretty far when law enforcement loses the support of combat pistol shooters.
Note the very different attitude between this Pomona LEO, Oathkeepers, and the sheriff who deputizes his CCW holders. (I think it was in Michigan.) Talk about a difference of day and night.
It sounds like there is a profound lack of leadership in the Pomona PD to me.
UOC'ers are easy prey. Plain and simple. We are derided from every corner...pro-gunners, anti-gunners, LEO's, and regular citizens. Did I leave out anyone? According to one group we carry useless paperweights that cannot be loaded fast enough, from another group we can go from law abiding to felon in 2 seconds which is an unacceptable threat/risk to the general public. LEO's taunt and laugh at us while threatening our very existence for a furtive movement (a barely perceptable movement). The general public is so fearful of us due to decades of brainwashing by the leftists, nanny statists, socialists, communists, lamestream media, Hollyweird, and life long members of the NRA. And free staters don't understand why we would even want to UOC to begin with much less even live in the PRK.
The bottom line is for those who are a special class of citizen (ie LEO) they have been indoctrinated into believing they are better than we are, and that their safety is more important than our civil liberties. Their ability to go home every night to their families is more important than the oath they took to uphold and defend the Constitution. They are not LEO's out of respect for the Founding Father's legacy of creating a free people and to insure those freedoms remain intact for their posterity. Their life is more important to them than preserving the Founder's legacy or your natural law rights. They have not pledged to themselves, or to the public they pretend to serve, their lives, their fortunes, or their sacred honor. But understand, its not necessarily because they won't, its because they don't know any better, they don't know history, they don't know the true, original intent and meaning and hopes and desires the Founders created for us. Many of us don't even know, myself included. I have been reading and studying for the past year and haven't even scratched the surface yet.
So for those LEO's who get it, and they are the fringe minority (as we are to the pro-gun crowd) my hat is off to them. For the rest just roll your eyes, ask if they are an Oathkeeper, and educate them on the Constitution as well as to the fact that if they violate your civil rights you WILL take the necessary steps to seek just restitution, not only for yourself but also for posterity. It's that important.
So to the OP, good for you bringing up the topic, but for improvement find ways to explain and educate without being critical not only for the benefit of the LEO, but for everyone he/she comes in contact with. I simply take on the role of history teacher. I don't judge or condemn, I just try to highlight the original intent. A lot of people I talk to ask if I'm a history teacher, which I'm not. But find your own voice to be effective. Carry on!
Do we have a name?
My suspicions are that this law enforcement officer is not revealing an isolated viewpoint. We have no idea of knowing how many law enforcement people are out there with an agenda of maintaining dominance at any cost, 1A and 2A rights be damned. All it takes is one cop with the thought process that the name of the game is stay on top of the scum. An officer that can articulate the claim a "furtive move" caused the officers to "fear for their life". You are dead. No mulligans. Something to consider. Any acknowledgement of an approaching law officer could be construed as a "furtive move". Your buddies with unloaded weapons can't offer much to stop an "unfortunate misunderstanding". And would they do anything against a uniformed law officer if they each had loaded weapons?
Either way, you have become a peripheral Martyr and the most you can hope for from that point forward is that someone remembers to put flowers on your grave once in a while. And maybe that geese don't hang around your grave. If they will tase you over a facial expression, what are the possibilities if you display a weapon?
Don't take it so seriously; he was just running his mouth. Good or bad at their core, many of us (especially the men) will say **** to sound tough/cool/whatever.
On a lighter note... a family friend just related that his idiot nephew-in-law has shot himself in the hand. Luckily the children were not hurt. Not sure how it happened, but I got a good chuckle out of it. This guy is a corrections officer, typical macho syndrome, and always acted like he was some sort of gun guru.
The day after his accident, he sold his OLL and a couple very nice C&R firearms. No word on what he did to his handgun, but I'm sure there was some sort of retaliation for its misbehavior, as I guarantee in his mind it was NOT his fault he has a hole in his hand.
The thing that caught me was that nobody knew I OC so the true opinions came out. He was very upset at the very mention of OC. Among the other conversations was his anger that the cities suspicionless stops have been drastically cut back due to its conflict with the 4th ammendment. " we used to be able to stop hundreds of cars and people a night now we are only able to stop several dozen, there were to many comlaints from people that we were violating their constitutional right."
See the whole point of carrying Unloaded is so that the general public gets used to citizens with guns and then maybe we can change laws regarding loaded weapons so hopefully in the future we will not need to have it unloaded. I do believe e check is unreasonable search if there is no clear reason for the police to suspect being in danger, but I can also see the difficulty in the legal argument for it.
That being said don't knock a paper weight, anything short of someone else attacking you with a loaded gun a paper weight can do some serious damage, and if someone does attack with a gun themselves there's still a chance to hopefully find cover enough to load.
our best to expand our area of operations. This will make for bigger showings at each event. We can strengthen
our position by reaching and educating more people.
Ya know. I've been thinking. This "COP" that said he'd put a bullet in the head of an OCer. Wouldn't that be considered MURDER ? I mean a law abiding citizen being shot for no reason. It sounds like MURDER to me.
Another thing This cop and others say open carry is a waste. Well Haven't cops been killed and THEY are LOC. A gun is nothing more than a deterrent. It's not gonna stop all the crazies. It'll make the ones that have INTENT think twice. Which is another argument FOR open carry. Unloaded or Loaded.
Some, if not most of our legislators and LEOs should be required to take a college level course on the constitution with emphasis on the Bill of Rights.
A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.
My question wasn't rhetorical. I meant no disrespect. I honestly wondered that. It seems quite probably to me in these times that a LEA would only have their officers swear an oath to them, and not that pesky US Constitution.
I was only answering muds question and never saw any disrespect in the asking. In my career, I've been 'sworn in' three times. And yes there are bad apples. Hope I'm in a position to change that. Many 'issues' will be cleared up when we have clearer case law and better training on gun/self defense issues in the future.
This is a little unsettling and I'm not even going to pretend I know where this Officer is coming from. I think that OCing in Pomona is a must do. I can't go, but will be there in spirit. I have never wanted to provoke anyone with the weapon, but quite the opposite.
In all of my contact with Law Enforcement, NONE of it has been negative.
"Most people respect the badge. Everybody... respects the gun."