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Thread: Open Carry Protest at Arts Beats And Eats?

  1. #1
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    Exclamation Open Carry Protest at Arts Beats And Eats?

    So who else here is planning on showing up at Arts Beats And Eats? That arrogant elitist smarmy ***** witz, and his ilk like l brooks patterson need to be taught a lesson regarding there actions, and there attempt to go around us with the MLCC, and there stated goal (Right on Arts Beats And Eats's own website no less) to deny us of our rights. To that end the public also needs to be shown that we are not dangerous, and that we indeed make them safer. We have the momentum, now lets preserve it, and press our advance against these clowns!

    Admission is free Friday September 3rd before 5, and Royal Oak is only controlling parking for a one mile radius around Arts Beats And Eats, so if you park at least a mile away, and walk in you can park for free, and a mile really isn't that far, and it's good exercise. witz doesn't need to get a penny.

    Since Minors will be allowed in, it's a public street, and Royal Oak bans Alcohol on Public Streets, I don't see how he can call it a bar, and even if he did he admits himself that the majority of the income is from parking, and thus it would fall under the 51% rule. Also Open Carry with a CPL is allowed in Pistol Free Zones as you know.

    I'll be there, who else is coming?

  2. #2
    Regular Member DetroitBiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Small Arms Collector View Post
    So who else here is planning on showing up at Arts Beats And Eats? That arrogant elitist smarmy ***** witz, and his ilk like l brooks patterson need to be taught a lesson regarding there actions, and there attempt to go around us with the MLCC, and there stated goal (Right on Arts Beats And Eats's own website no less) to deny us of our rights. To that end the public also needs to be shown that we are not dangerous, and that we indeed make them safer. We have the momentum, now lets preserve it, and press our advance against these clowns!

    Admission is free Friday September 3rd before 5, and Royal Oak is only controlling parking for a one mile radius around Arts Beats And Eats, so if you park at least a mile away, and walk in you can park for free, and a mile really isn't that far, and it's good exercise. witz doesn't need to get a penny.

    Since Minors will be allowed in, it's a public street, and Royal Oak bans Alcohol on Public Streets, I don't see how he can call it a bar, and even if he did he admits himself that the majority of the income is from parking, and thus it would fall under the 51% rule. Also Open Carry with a CPL is allowed in Pistol Free Zones as you know.

    I'll be there, who else is coming?
    Welcome to OCDO, Im curious as to what kind of Protest you have in mind. The commissioners voted to ammend the illegal contract. By going there to teach them a lesson could have a negative impact. Its one thing to go there,have a good time and show people that we are just going about our everyday lives,just like they do. But to call for a all out protest and even ask people from Ohio to come out ,seems a little much. And telling them long arms are ok to bring. That would not help our cause at all IMO.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...33#post1342833

  3. #3
    Regular Member Slave's Avatar
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    You where told the same thing at Michiganopencarry.com also.

    This is stupid. We won, why rub salt in the wound now? Protesting for the sake of protesting is juvenile, and counterproductive.

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    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    May I say a few things? I's no secret I have a sharp tongue, but to say protest when we got our point across, and got what we want tends to set a negative tone in the least. I once was asked for advice on how people could protest and be noticed without as much negative media coverage. I illustrated my point of image is everything by pointing out that even a Nazi protest could be better received if they dropped the attitude and dressed differently by wearing pin stripped suits. Meaning how one presents itself makes a whole lot of difference. Our enemies are crafty and we must never allow them to use us as their point to suppress our rights. They try very hard to make us appear as toothless bubba's in bare feet carrying a moonshine jug along with the douba barrel scatter gun if you get my drift. Now as far as Brooks I don't know where he jumped off the gun wagon, I remember our conversations and he was a solid gun rights advocate at one time. Could I guess that somehow he has a picture of us that's all wrong? Yes! As a matter of fact if I was a betting man I would bet he has some picture drawn by others and can't get beyond it. I took a lot of garbage for suggesting that a few should practice better hygiene and maybe use the laundry equipment more often than they obviously do. But I stand my ground on that point and from the positive reactions most agree with me. Like it or not this is an intellectual war of ideals. And in this day and age it is won more often than not by image first then ideals secondly. Now the best way I have ever seen it said was in Matthew 10:16 of the bible: Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. I think the thought process is well taken even by those who don't discuss religion. We must be shrewd and appear as we are harmless, because our enemies are ravenous wolves. So calling people "pricks" and using "protest" when we won our point is not unlike poking ones finger in their eyes, and I don't subscribe to that ideology. Not to mention "pressing our advance against these clowns", seems to be quite an antagonistic way to say we should keep steady in the battle of ideals and for our rights.
    Now please understand with only two posts I can not gauge your intentions or mindset. being new here you might save your venom for the most advantageous times. I would agree if you are saying to not patronize those businesses that fought hard to take away our rights. At this point being tactful and friendly at AB&E would be in our favor. To add for anyone reading, I do have concern that some agent provocateur may try to make us look bad at AB&E so be warned there are some who so hate us that it is well within reason to anticipate such actions.

    Welcome to OCDO.


    Quote Originally Posted by Small Arms Collector View Post
    So who else here is planning on showing up at Arts Beats And Eats? That arrogant elitist smarmy ***** witz, and his ilk like l brooks patterson need to be taught a lesson regarding there actions, and there attempt to go around us with the MLCC, and there stated goal (Right on Arts Beats And Eats's own website no less) to deny us of our rights. To that end the public also needs to be shown that we are not dangerous, and that we indeed make them safer. We have the momentum, now lets preserve it, and press our advance against these clowns!

    Admission is free Friday September 3rd before 5, and Royal Oak is only controlling parking for a one mile radius around Arts Beats And Eats, so if you park at least a mile away, and walk in you can park for free, and a mile really isn't that far, and it's good exercise. witz doesn't need to get a penny.

    Since Minors will be allowed in, it's a public street, and Royal Oak bans Alcohol on Public Streets, I don't see how he can call it a bar, and even if he did he admits himself that the majority of the income is from parking, and thus it would fall under the 51% rule. Also Open Carry with a CPL is allowed in Pistol Free Zones as you know.

    I'll be there, who else is coming?
    Last edited by Bailenforcer; 08-30-2010 at 08:26 AM.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  5. #5
    Regular Member sprinklerguy28's Avatar
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    i agree. to stage a protest would serve no purpose to our cause. one of the main points that has been made is that we are wanting to go about our lives as we normally would. large gatherings or "protests" would only confirm many of the anti's opinions. if you wish to go then do so as you normally would.

    the media will be there and any negative actions will be recorded and used to undo the great work so many have done in royal oak.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinklerguy28 View Post
    the media will be there and any negative actions will be recorded and used to undo the great work so many have done in royal oak.
    i could not agree more. the media will be looking and hoping for a good story. if anything goes wrong, the person responsible could end up being the face of open carry.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    I am not getting your point here. Is this some personal war against Jon Witz? You keep pointing him out in both of your posts as if you have some personal grudge against him that has nothing to do with open carry. You just joined this site and the only 2 posts are Jon Witz bashing posts and some crazy sounding call to arms psychobabble. He lost we won PERIOD! So why all the hate words, and foul language? I suspect there is something very personal between you and Jon Witz going on here that has nothing to do with open carry. You are sounding like some agent provocateur. Yes I said it! I find it odd that in all the forums that I have built, ran, and manage for others, I have yet to see someone come in and in and instantly start a hate campaign unless he had deep personal issues with the target mentioned, or an agent provocateur. Frankly you are starting to worry me that you might be that idiot who in Warren Michigan promotes the idea that all gun owners should be killed. Your writing echos his mentality, and writing style. Yes I am calling you out! I know you are not what you claim to be, whatever that is. I don't subscribe to a commando mentality when we are winning our arguments, and I don't think you are as pro open carry as your promote yourself as. If this upsets you then so be it, your tactics smell fishy. Why did you post in the Ohio forum asking for help? This is weird, are you Timothy Alan Campbell?


    Quote Originally Posted by Small Arms Collector View Post
    So who else here is planning on showing up at Arts Beats And Eats? That arrogant elitist smarmy ***** witz, and his ilk like l brooks patterson need to be taught a lesson regarding there actions, and there attempt to go around us with the MLCC, and there stated goal (Right on Arts Beats And Eats's own website no less) to deny us of our rights. To that end the public also needs to be shown that we are not dangerous, and that we indeed make them safer. We have the momentum, now lets preserve it, and press our advance against these clowns!

    Admission is free Friday September 3rd before 5, and Royal Oak is only controlling parking for a one mile radius around Arts Beats And Eats, so if you park at least a mile away, and walk in you can park for free, and a mile really isn't that far, and it's good exercise. witz doesn't need to get a penny.

    Since Minors will be allowed in, it's a public street, and Royal Oak bans Alcohol on Public Streets, I don't see how he can call it a bar, and even if he did he admits himself that the majority of the income is from parking, and thus it would fall under the 51% rule. Also Open Carry with a CPL is allowed in Pistol Free Zones as you know.

    I'll be there, who else is coming?
    Last edited by Bailenforcer; 08-30-2010 at 09:21 AM.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

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    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    In the Ohio threads he is calling for people with rifles to show up. Please do not show up with long guns at AB&E this is a bit odd for someone to join the site and suddenly call to arms in his only two posts.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...33#post1342833

    I just rated both of his threads as terrible.
    Last edited by Bailenforcer; 08-30-2010 at 09:13 AM.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    There will be NO Open Carry protest at Arts Beats And Eats!

  10. #10
    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    My guess is this is someone from the media (etc.) attempting to rally us to do something stupid.

    Obviously if we've gotten this far, we're not stupid.


    There's no reason to protest. We won the battle. I'll be going, and I'll be OCing. I'll have my recorder from the moment I leave my car to the moment I enter my car again. I expect absolutely no problems while I'm there, and will not be looking for problems. If there are anti's there that are threatening violence against me because I choose to tuck my shirt in as opposed to leaving it untucked and covering my gun, then good for them. They better plan to bring bazookas cause those of us who ARE attending and or following this matter will be more vigilant than ever, whether you're media, LEO, an OCer or a CCer.
    Last edited by malignity; 08-30-2010 at 09:38 AM.
    All opinions posted on opencarry.org are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of opencarry.org or Michigan Open Carry Inc.

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    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    Last I checked the only threats, intimidation and call for violence was from Timothy Alan Campbell, a hard core leftist liberal, and admitted liberal Messiah.

    http://www.angelfire.com/oz/gotimothy/writing.htm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-T70thOVRA


    Quote Originally Posted by malignity View Post
    My guess is this is someone from the media (etc.) attempting to rally us to do something stupid.

    Obviously if we've gotten this far, we're not stupid.


    There's no reason to protest. We won the battle. I'll be going, and I'll be OCing. I'll have my recorder from the moment I leave my car to the moment I enter my car again. I expect absolutely no problems while I'm there, and will not be looking for problems. If there are anti's there that are threatening violence against me because I choose to tuck my shirt in as opposed to leaving it untucked and covering my gun, then good for them. They better plan to bring bazookas cause those of us who ARE attending and or following this matter will be more vigilant than ever, whether you're media, LEO, an OCer or a CCer.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  12. #12
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    You guys need to stop with the conspiracy theory also.

    Small Arms Collector (S_A_C) has been around for awhile, albeit on other message boards.
    Last edited by dougwg; 08-30-2010 at 09:57 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bailenforcer View Post
    May I say a few things? I's no secret I have a sharp tongue, but to say protest when we got our point across, and got what we want tends to set a negative tone in the least. I once was asked for advice on how people could protest and be noticed without as much negative media coverage. I illustrated my point of image is everything by pointing out that even a Nazi protest could be better received if they dropped the attitude and dressed differently by wearing pin stripped suits. Meaning how one presents itself makes a whole lot of difference. Our enemies are crafty and we must never allow them to use us as their point to suppress our rights. They try very hard to make us appear as toothless bubba's in bare feet carrying a moonshine jug along with the douba barrel scatter gun if you get my drift. Now as far as Brooks I don't know where he jumped off the gun wagon, I remember our conversations and he was a solid gun rights advocate at one time. Could I guess that somehow he has a picture of us that's all wrong? Yes! As a matter of fact if I was a betting man I would bet he has some picture drawn by others and can't get beyond it. I took a lot of garbage for suggesting that a few should practice better hygiene and maybe use the laundry equipment more often than they obviously do. But I stand my ground on that point and from the positive reactions most agree with me. Like it or not this is an intellectual war of ideals. And in this day and age it is won more often than not by image first then ideals secondly. Now the best way I have ever seen it said was in Matthew 10:16 of the bible: Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. I think the thought process is well taken even by those who don't discuss religion. We must be shrewd and appear as we are harmless, because our enemies are ravenous wolves. So calling people "pricks" and using "protest" when we won our point is not unlike poking ones finger in their eyes, and I don't subscribe to that ideology. Not to mention "pressing our advance against these clowns", seems to be quite an antagonistic way to say we should keep steady in the battle of ideals and for our rights.
    Now please understand with only two posts I can not gauge your intentions or mindset. being new here you might save your venom for the most advantageous times. I would agree if you are saying to not patronize those businesses that fought hard to take away our rights. At this point being tactful and friendly at AB&E would be in our favor. To add for anyone reading, I do have concern that some agent provocateur may try to make us look bad at AB&E so be warned there are some who so hate us that it is well within reason to anticipate such actions.

    Welcome to OCDO.
    Nuff sayd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bailenforcer View Post
    I am not getting your point here. Is this some personal war against Jon Witz? You keep pointing him out in both of your posts as if you have some personal grudge against him that has nothing to do with open carry. You just joined this site and the only 2 posts are Jon Witz bashing posts and some crazy sounding call to arms psychobabble. He lost we won PERIOD! So why all the hate words, and foul language? I suspect there is something very personal between you and Jon Witz going on here that has nothing to do with open carry. You are sounding like some agent provocateur. Yes I said it! I find it odd that in all the forums that I have built, ran, and manage for others, I have yet to see someone come in and in and instantly start a hate campaign unless he had deep personal issues with the target mentioned, or an agent provocateur. Frankly you are starting to worry me that you might be that idiot who in Warren Michigan promotes the idea that all gun owners should be killed. Your writing echos his mentality, and writing style. Yes I am calling you out! I know you are not what you claim to be, whatever that is. I don't subscribe to a commando mentality when we are winning our arguments, and I don't think you are as pro open carry as your promote yourself as. If this upsets you then so be it, your tactics smell fishy. Why did you post in the Ohio forum asking for help? This is weird, are you Timothy Alan Campbell?
    I also have my suspicions, and was just discussing them with someone before I read this post. Especially from a supposed CPL instructor who doesn't know where to find the law that requires a CC'er to "disclose".

    Quack, quack.

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    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    And you can say with assurance he is the same person as on the other boards? I know that bailenforcer has been used at OCDO MOC events as an identification in person and people thought the guy was me.

    His Ohio post asked people to bring long guns and protest. This is not responsible and is to be suspect as it goes against most everyone's mindset on this forum. Why is there such venom against the one person (Jon Witz) he mentions several times in both posts? I am highly suspicious of both posts, and the Ohio thread was closed by John for the rifle request. There is no theory here it sounds fishy for a person to join and only post twice demanding some kind of show of force and we should call it out so the anti gunners, and press know we are not in favor of such silliness. I support responsible actions not inane call to action after we win a public debate. So I stand still suspicious of his or her motives.


    Quote Originally Posted by dougwg View Post
    You guys need to stop with the conspiracy theory also.

    Small Arms Collector (S_A_C) has been around for awhile, albeit on other message boards.
    Last edited by Bailenforcer; 08-30-2010 at 01:00 PM.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

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    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    troll
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    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
    Luke 22:36
    God Bless

  17. #17
    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    Hm..

    Small Arms Collector = Pat?

    Pat's been gone for quite some time now... and if he had another account under the radar..

    Maybe I'm way off base. I didn't know Pat well, however we all seemed to suffer repercussions he caused here (I got spam emails and had to request their stopage as well as basically everyone else here, amongst other things.)

    Who knows..

    brb getting my tinfoil hat.
    All opinions posted on opencarry.org are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of opencarry.org or Michigan Open Carry Inc.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Jerbear1098's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastmeyers View Post
    troll
    +1000
    "It isn't that Liberals are ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so" --Ronald Reagan

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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitBiker View Post
    Welcome to OCDO, Im curious as to what kind of Protest you have in mind. The commissioners voted to ammend the illegal contract. By going there to teach them a lesson could have a negative impact. Its one thing to go there,have a good time and show people that we are just going about our everyday lives,just like they do. But to call for a all out protest and even ask people from Ohio to come out ,seems a little much. And telling them long arms are ok to bring. That would not help our cause at all IMO.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...33#post1342833
    Nothing really organized, just show up, and mil around, maybe listen to the music, the protest is simply being there, the goal being simply to show witz, and l brooks patterson that they can't push us around, and educate the public that were just normal people.

  20. #20
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Go home troll
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
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    God Bless

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    Regular Member Jerbear1098's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Small Arms Collector View Post
    Nothing really organized, just show up, and mil around, maybe listen to the music, the protest is simply being there, the goal being simply to show witz, and l brooks patterson that they can't push us around, and educate the public that were just normal people.
    And do so WITHOUT LONG GUNS
    Last edited by Jerbear1098; 08-30-2010 at 03:26 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bailenforcer View Post
    I am not getting your point here. Is this some personal war against Jon Witz? You keep pointing him out in both of your posts as if you have some personal grudge against him that has nothing to do with open carry. You just joined this site and the only 2 posts are Jon Witz bashing posts and some crazy sounding call to arms psychobabble. He lost we won PERIOD! So why all the hate words, and foul language? I suspect there is something very personal between you and Jon Witz going on here that has nothing to do with open carry. You are sounding like some agent provocateur. Yes I said it! I find it odd that in all the forums that I have built, ran, and manage for others, I have yet to see someone come in and in and instantly start a hate campaign unless he had deep personal issues with the target mentioned, or an agent provocateur. Frankly you are starting to worry me that you might be that idiot who in Warren Michigan promotes the idea that all gun owners should be killed. Your writing echos his mentality, and writing style. Yes I am calling you out! I know you are not what you claim to be, whatever that is. I don't subscribe to a commando mentality when we are winning our arguments, and I don't think you are as pro open carry as your promote yourself as. If this upsets you then so be it, your tactics smell fishy. Why did you post in the Ohio forum asking for help? This is weird, are you Timothy Alan Campbell?
    No, I am not, I cross posted because I'm trying to create the largest turn out possible, and yes I suppose that I am taking it kind of personal with witz, he pissed me off, so "ruining" his event from his perspective makes me smile personally, however that does not change the fact that a gathering even informal in an event with as many people, and as well covered/known as this one would be a net positive in my view, a very large number of people would see us, and see that we are not dangerous, and are just like them, is that not the goal? All I'm planning is showing up Friday before 5PM, wandering through for awhile, maybe stop, and listen to some music, then go home, and that's all I'm trying to encourage others to do, I'm sorry if I fail at bringing that across.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bailenforcer View Post
    In the Ohio threads he is calling for people with rifles to show up. Please do not show up with long guns at AB&E this is a bit odd for someone to join the site and suddenly call to arms in his only two posts.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...33#post1342833

    I just rated both of his threads as terrible.
    People in Ohio without a CCW can't bring pistols, I only suggested long guns if they did not have a CCW, but still wanted to come, I think I stated that fairly clearly.

  24. #24
    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    You guys are giving people crap about OC'ing long guns, I'm assuming that's because you don't think it casts OC in a positive light and works against the cause?

    There are tons of gun owners and people with cpl's that feel OC of a handgun portrays guns in a negative light and works against the cause.

    What is the difference in these two? They are both legal actions, why do some of you defend one but not the other?



    I"M NOT ENCOURAGING LONG GUN CARRY TO ABE!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by dougwg View Post
    You guys need to stop with the conspiracy theory also.

    Small Arms Collector (S_A_C) has been around for awhile, albeit on other message boards.
    Thankyou.

    Guys I'm not the media, I'm not a troll, I'm not an agent provocateur, I'm not that crazy ass with a weeks worth of food in his beard, and I'm certainly not an anti.

    Normally I'm on other forums mainly AR15.com, I don't normally OC, so I haven't posted here before, this thing with Arts Beats And Eats was just a rallying call for me, it just raised my ire so I'm trying to take some form of action. Yes I'm kind of straight to the point, and sharp tonged, but that's just my style.

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