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Open Carry Protest at Arts Beats And Eats?

Small Arms Collector

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2010
Messages
53
Location
Eastpointe, MI
So who else here is planning on showing up at Arts Beats And Eats? That arrogant elitist smarmy prick witz, and his ilk like l brooks patterson need to be taught a lesson regarding there actions, and there attempt to go around us with the MLCC, and there stated goal (Right on Arts Beats And Eats's own website no less) to deny us of our rights. To that end the public also needs to be shown that we are not dangerous, and that we indeed make them safer. We have the momentum, now lets preserve it, and press our advance against these clowns!

Admission is free Friday September 3rd before 5, and Royal Oak is only controlling parking for a one mile radius around Arts Beats And Eats, so if you park at least a mile away, and walk in you can park for free, and a mile really isn't that far, and it's good exercise. witz doesn't need to get a penny.

Since Minors will be allowed in, it's a public street, and Royal Oak bans Alcohol on Public Streets, I don't see how he can call it a bar, and even if he did he admits himself that the majority of the income is from parking, and thus it would fall under the 51% rule. Also Open Carry with a CPL is allowed in Pistol Free Zones as you know.

I'll be there, who else is coming?
 

DetroitBiker

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Messages
318
Location
USA
So who else here is planning on showing up at Arts Beats And Eats? That arrogant elitist smarmy prick witz, and his ilk like l brooks patterson need to be taught a lesson regarding there actions, and there attempt to go around us with the MLCC, and there stated goal (Right on Arts Beats And Eats's own website no less) to deny us of our rights. To that end the public also needs to be shown that we are not dangerous, and that we indeed make them safer. We have the momentum, now lets preserve it, and press our advance against these clowns!

Admission is free Friday September 3rd before 5, and Royal Oak is only controlling parking for a one mile radius around Arts Beats And Eats, so if you park at least a mile away, and walk in you can park for free, and a mile really isn't that far, and it's good exercise. witz doesn't need to get a penny.

Since Minors will be allowed in, it's a public street, and Royal Oak bans Alcohol on Public Streets, I don't see how he can call it a bar, and even if he did he admits himself that the majority of the income is from parking, and thus it would fall under the 51% rule. Also Open Carry with a CPL is allowed in Pistol Free Zones as you know.

I'll be there, who else is coming?
Welcome to OCDO, Im curious as to what kind of Protest you have in mind. The commissioners voted to ammend the illegal contract. By going there to teach them a lesson could have a negative impact. Its one thing to go there,have a good time and show people that we are just going about our everyday lives,just like they do. But to call for a all out protest and even ask people from Ohio to come out ,seems a little much. And telling them long arms are ok to bring. That would not help our cause at all IMO.
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...chigan-needs-your-help.&p=1342833#post1342833
 

Slave

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2010
Messages
141
Location
Flint, Michigan, USA
You where told the same thing at Michiganopencarry.com also.

This is stupid. We won, why rub salt in the wound now? Protesting for the sake of protesting is juvenile, and counterproductive.
 

Bailenforcer

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
1,077
Location
City
May I say a few things? I's no secret I have a sharp tongue, but to say protest when we got our point across, and got what we want tends to set a negative tone in the least. I once was asked for advice on how people could protest and be noticed without as much negative media coverage. I illustrated my point of image is everything by pointing out that even a Nazi protest could be better received if they dropped the attitude and dressed differently by wearing pin stripped suits. Meaning how one presents itself makes a whole lot of difference. Our enemies are crafty and we must never allow them to use us as their point to suppress our rights. They try very hard to make us appear as toothless bubba's in bare feet carrying a moonshine jug along with the douba barrel scatter gun if you get my drift. Now as far as Brooks I don't know where he jumped off the gun wagon, I remember our conversations and he was a solid gun rights advocate at one time. Could I guess that somehow he has a picture of us that's all wrong? Yes! As a matter of fact if I was a betting man I would bet he has some picture drawn by others and can't get beyond it. I took a lot of garbage for suggesting that a few should practice better hygiene and maybe use the laundry equipment more often than they obviously do. But I stand my ground on that point and from the positive reactions most agree with me. Like it or not this is an intellectual war of ideals. And in this day and age it is won more often than not by image first then ideals secondly. Now the best way I have ever seen it said was in Matthew 10:16 of the bible: Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. I think the thought process is well taken even by those who don't discuss religion. We must be shrewd and appear as we are harmless, because our enemies are ravenous wolves. So calling people "pricks" and using "protest" when we won our point is not unlike poking ones finger in their eyes, and I don't subscribe to that ideology. Not to mention "pressing our advance against these clowns", seems to be quite an antagonistic way to say we should keep steady in the battle of ideals and for our rights.
Now please understand with only two posts I can not gauge your intentions or mindset. being new here you might save your venom for the most advantageous times. I would agree if you are saying to not patronize those businesses that fought hard to take away our rights. At this point being tactful and friendly at AB&E would be in our favor. To add for anyone reading, I do have concern that some agent provocateur may try to make us look bad at AB&E so be warned there are some who so hate us that it is well within reason to anticipate such actions.

Welcome to OCDO.


So who else here is planning on showing up at Arts Beats And Eats? That arrogant elitist smarmy prick witz, and his ilk like l brooks patterson need to be taught a lesson regarding there actions, and there attempt to go around us with the MLCC, and there stated goal (Right on Arts Beats And Eats's own website no less) to deny us of our rights. To that end the public also needs to be shown that we are not dangerous, and that we indeed make them safer. We have the momentum, now lets preserve it, and press our advance against these clowns!

Admission is free Friday September 3rd before 5, and Royal Oak is only controlling parking for a one mile radius around Arts Beats And Eats, so if you park at least a mile away, and walk in you can park for free, and a mile really isn't that far, and it's good exercise. witz doesn't need to get a penny.

Since Minors will be allowed in, it's a public street, and Royal Oak bans Alcohol on Public Streets, I don't see how he can call it a bar, and even if he did he admits himself that the majority of the income is from parking, and thus it would fall under the 51% rule. Also Open Carry with a CPL is allowed in Pistol Free Zones as you know.

I'll be there, who else is coming?
 
Last edited:

sprinklerguy28

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
666
Location
Michigan
i agree. to stage a protest would serve no purpose to our cause. one of the main points that has been made is that we are wanting to go about our lives as we normally would. large gatherings or "protests" would only confirm many of the anti's opinions. if you wish to go then do so as you normally would.

the media will be there and any negative actions will be recorded and used to undo the great work so many have done in royal oak.
 

Bailenforcer

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
1,077
Location
City
I am not getting your point here. Is this some personal war against Jon Witz? You keep pointing him out in both of your posts as if you have some personal grudge against him that has nothing to do with open carry. You just joined this site and the only 2 posts are Jon Witz bashing posts and some crazy sounding call to arms psychobabble. He lost we won PERIOD! So why all the hate words, and foul language? I suspect there is something very personal between you and Jon Witz going on here that has nothing to do with open carry. You are sounding like some agent provocateur. Yes I said it! I find it odd that in all the forums that I have built, ran, and manage for others, I have yet to see someone come in and in and instantly start a hate campaign unless he had deep personal issues with the target mentioned, or an agent provocateur. Frankly you are starting to worry me that you might be that idiot who in Warren Michigan promotes the idea that all gun owners should be killed. Your writing echos his mentality, and writing style. Yes I am calling you out! I know you are not what you claim to be, whatever that is. I don't subscribe to a commando mentality when we are winning our arguments, and I don't think you are as pro open carry as your promote yourself as. If this upsets you then so be it, your tactics smell fishy. Why did you post in the Ohio forum asking for help? This is weird, are you Timothy Alan Campbell?


So who else here is planning on showing up at Arts Beats And Eats? That arrogant elitist smarmy prick witz, and his ilk like l brooks patterson need to be taught a lesson regarding there actions, and there attempt to go around us with the MLCC, and there stated goal (Right on Arts Beats And Eats's own website no less) to deny us of our rights. To that end the public also needs to be shown that we are not dangerous, and that we indeed make them safer. We have the momentum, now lets preserve it, and press our advance against these clowns!

Admission is free Friday September 3rd before 5, and Royal Oak is only controlling parking for a one mile radius around Arts Beats And Eats, so if you park at least a mile away, and walk in you can park for free, and a mile really isn't that far, and it's good exercise. witz doesn't need to get a penny.

Since Minors will be allowed in, it's a public street, and Royal Oak bans Alcohol on Public Streets, I don't see how he can call it a bar, and even if he did he admits himself that the majority of the income is from parking, and thus it would fall under the 51% rule. Also Open Carry with a CPL is allowed in Pistol Free Zones as you know.

I'll be there, who else is coming?
 
Last edited:

malignity

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2008
Messages
1,101
Location
Warren, Michigan, USA
My guess is this is someone from the media (etc.) attempting to rally us to do something stupid.

Obviously if we've gotten this far, we're not stupid.


There's no reason to protest. We won the battle. I'll be going, and I'll be OCing. I'll have my recorder from the moment I leave my car to the moment I enter my car again. I expect absolutely no problems while I'm there, and will not be looking for problems. If there are anti's there that are threatening violence against me because I choose to tuck my shirt in as opposed to leaving it untucked and covering my gun, then good for them. They better plan to bring bazookas cause those of us who ARE attending and or following this matter will be more vigilant than ever, whether you're media, LEO, an OCer or a CCer.
 
Last edited:

Bailenforcer

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
1,077
Location
City
Last I checked the only threats, intimidation and call for violence was from Timothy Alan Campbell, a hard core leftist liberal, and admitted liberal Messiah.

http://www.angelfire.com/oz/gotimothy/writing.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-T70thOVRA


My guess is this is someone from the media (etc.) attempting to rally us to do something stupid.

Obviously if we've gotten this far, we're not stupid.


There's no reason to protest. We won the battle. I'll be going, and I'll be OCing. I'll have my recorder from the moment I leave my car to the moment I enter my car again. I expect absolutely no problems while I'm there, and will not be looking for problems. If there are anti's there that are threatening violence against me because I choose to tuck my shirt in as opposed to leaving it untucked and covering my gun, then good for them. They better plan to bring bazookas cause those of us who ARE attending and or following this matter will be more vigilant than ever, whether you're media, LEO, an OCer or a CCer.
 

ghostrider

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2007
Messages
1,416
Location
Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA
May I say a few things? I's no secret I have a sharp tongue, but to say protest when we got our point across, and got what we want tends to set a negative tone in the least. I once was asked for advice on how people could protest and be noticed without as much negative media coverage. I illustrated my point of image is everything by pointing out that even a Nazi protest could be better received if they dropped the attitude and dressed differently by wearing pin stripped suits. Meaning how one presents itself makes a whole lot of difference. Our enemies are crafty and we must never allow them to use us as their point to suppress our rights. They try very hard to make us appear as toothless bubba's in bare feet carrying a moonshine jug along with the douba barrel scatter gun if you get my drift. Now as far as Brooks I don't know where he jumped off the gun wagon, I remember our conversations and he was a solid gun rights advocate at one time. Could I guess that somehow he has a picture of us that's all wrong? Yes! As a matter of fact if I was a betting man I would bet he has some picture drawn by others and can't get beyond it. I took a lot of garbage for suggesting that a few should practice better hygiene and maybe use the laundry equipment more often than they obviously do. But I stand my ground on that point and from the positive reactions most agree with me. Like it or not this is an intellectual war of ideals. And in this day and age it is won more often than not by image first then ideals secondly. Now the best way I have ever seen it said was in Matthew 10:16 of the bible: Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. I think the thought process is well taken even by those who don't discuss religion. We must be shrewd and appear as we are harmless, because our enemies are ravenous wolves. So calling people "pricks" and using "protest" when we won our point is not unlike poking ones finger in their eyes, and I don't subscribe to that ideology. Not to mention "pressing our advance against these clowns", seems to be quite an antagonistic way to say we should keep steady in the battle of ideals and for our rights.
Now please understand with only two posts I can not gauge your intentions or mindset. being new here you might save your venom for the most advantageous times. I would agree if you are saying to not patronize those businesses that fought hard to take away our rights. At this point being tactful and friendly at AB&E would be in our favor. To add for anyone reading, I do have concern that some agent provocateur may try to make us look bad at AB&E so be warned there are some who so hate us that it is well within reason to anticipate such actions.

Welcome to OCDO.

Nuff sayd.
 

ghostrider

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2007
Messages
1,416
Location
Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA
I am not getting your point here. Is this some personal war against Jon Witz? You keep pointing him out in both of your posts as if you have some personal grudge against him that has nothing to do with open carry. You just joined this site and the only 2 posts are Jon Witz bashing posts and some crazy sounding call to arms psychobabble. He lost we won PERIOD! So why all the hate words, and foul language? I suspect there is something very personal between you and Jon Witz going on here that has nothing to do with open carry. You are sounding like some agent provocateur. Yes I said it! I find it odd that in all the forums that I have built, ran, and manage for others, I have yet to see someone come in and in and instantly start a hate campaign unless he had deep personal issues with the target mentioned, or an agent provocateur. Frankly you are starting to worry me that you might be that idiot who in Warren Michigan promotes the idea that all gun owners should be killed. Your writing echos his mentality, and writing style. Yes I am calling you out! I know you are not what you claim to be, whatever that is. I don't subscribe to a commando mentality when we are winning our arguments, and I don't think you are as pro open carry as your promote yourself as. If this upsets you then so be it, your tactics smell fishy. Why did you post in the Ohio forum asking for help? This is weird, are you Timothy Alan Campbell?
I also have my suspicions, and was just discussing them with someone before I read this post. Especially from a supposed CPL instructor who doesn't know where to find the law that requires a CC'er to "disclose".

Quack, quack.
 

Bailenforcer

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
1,077
Location
City
And you can say with assurance he is the same person as on the other boards? I know that bailenforcer has been used at OCDO MOC events as an identification in person and people thought the guy was me.

His Ohio post asked people to bring long guns and protest. This is not responsible and is to be suspect as it goes against most everyone's mindset on this forum. Why is there such venom against the one person (Jon Witz) he mentions several times in both posts? I am highly suspicious of both posts, and the Ohio thread was closed by John for the rifle request. There is no theory here it sounds fishy for a person to join and only post twice demanding some kind of show of force and we should call it out so the anti gunners, and press know we are not in favor of such silliness. I support responsible actions not inane call to action after we win a public debate. So I stand still suspicious of his or her motives.


You guys need to stop with the conspiracy theory also.

Small Arms Collector (S_A_C) has been around for awhile, albeit on other message boards.
 
Last edited:

malignity

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2008
Messages
1,101
Location
Warren, Michigan, USA
Hm..

Small Arms Collector = Pat?

Pat's been gone for quite some time now... and if he had another account under the radar..

Maybe I'm way off base. I didn't know Pat well, however we all seemed to suffer repercussions he caused here (I got spam emails and had to request their stopage as well as basically everyone else here, amongst other things.)

Who knows..

brb getting my tinfoil hat.
 

Small Arms Collector

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2010
Messages
53
Location
Eastpointe, MI
Welcome to OCDO, Im curious as to what kind of Protest you have in mind. The commissioners voted to ammend the illegal contract. By going there to teach them a lesson could have a negative impact. Its one thing to go there,have a good time and show people that we are just going about our everyday lives,just like they do. But to call for a all out protest and even ask people from Ohio to come out ,seems a little much. And telling them long arms are ok to bring. That would not help our cause at all IMO.
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...chigan-needs-your-help.&p=1342833#post1342833

Nothing really organized, just show up, and mil around, maybe listen to the music, the protest is simply being there, the goal being simply to show witz, and l brooks patterson that they can't push us around, and educate the public that were just normal people.
 
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