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Thread: Buddy kicked out of library for OC

  1. #1
    Regular Member bennie1986's Avatar
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    Buddy kicked out of library for OC

    A buddy of mine was recently asked to leave the Spokane City library for OCing citing their rules of conduct which states, “For the comfort and safety of patrons, volunteers, and staff, and the protection of Library property, the following actions are examples of conduct not allowed on Library property: Carrying firearms and dangerous weapons of any type (except by law enforcement officers.)”. The county library doesn’t have any mention of firearms under their policies.

    I have reread RCW 9.41.300 to make sure I didn’t miss anything about Public Libraries but didn’t find anything. I also looked up RCW 27.12 which has to do with Public Libraries as didn’t find anything about firearms. I called the Spokane Public Library and spoke to the building manager Denis Fredrickson. I asked if he had any info about the policy and he said,”You also can’t have firearms in the courthouse and other public building like that”. I informed him that RCW 9.41.300 specifically addresses “places like that” and the public library is not one of them. I also informed him RCW 27.12 on public libraries also doesn’t have any restrictions of firearms. Mr. Fredrickson referred me to the city attorney because he said that they are the ones that approved the policy. I called the city attorney and left a message for Pat Dalton, the receptionist said he would be the best person to talk to about the situation.

  2. #2
    Regular Member SnarlyWino's Avatar
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    Nice work Bennie, keep us posted.
    Keep Calm and Carry On,

    Snarly

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  3. #3
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    Which branch was this? I have only been in the Northside Branch twice while OC, but had no problems.

  4. #4
    Regular Member bennie1986's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Cowin View Post
    Which branch was this? I have only been in the Northside Branch twice while OC, but had no problems.
    33rd and perry on the south hill.

  5. #5
    Regular Member joejoejoe's Avatar
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    Call the city Attorney, then go to the City Hall with your information if the attorney does nothing. Ridiculous that everyone keeps making up laws. Keep us updated.

    Joe~

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    Keep us posted. I am curious as to see if the library will cede to state law.

  7. #7
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    We should have an OC meeting at the library to look up the pertinent RCWs.

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran Bookman's Avatar
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    State preemption definitely covers this. They can no more ban guns in the library than they can in the park. Keep up the good work.
    "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke


    "I like people who stand on the Constitution... unless they're using it to wipe their feet." - Jon E Hutcherson

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    Regular Member SnarlyWino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphan View Post
    We should have an OC meeting at the library to look up the pertinent RCWs.
    +1

    Saturday OC meet at South Hill library.
    Keep Calm and Carry On,

    Snarly

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  10. #10
    Regular Member bennie1986's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphan View Post
    We should have an OC meeting at the library to look up the pertinent RCWs.
    Depending on what the city attorney says, if he ever calls back, I was going to suggest something of the like!

  11. #11
    Regular Member JSlack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SnarlyWino View Post
    +1

    Saturday OC meet at South Hill library.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orphan View Post
    We should have an OC meeting at the library to look up the pertinent RCWs.

    took the words right off my keyboard!

    I might be able to make this Saturday morning before noon.

    what time does the library open?

  12. #12
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    Cool Times for library

    Hey,

    New here, I'm the "buddy" that Bennie is referring to and He finally persuaded me to join. Fyi the library opens at 10:00am this saturday and if everyone is game... I'll be there too- even if I get kicked out lol. According to their policy "Failure to comply with the Library's established rules, regulations, and policies could result in removal fro the premises and exclusion from the Library for a period of one day to two years, or in arrest or prosecution." Seeing as I've already "violated" the policy once... I could see them kicking me out- but the rest of ya'll will likely be a distraction so maybe not!!!

  13. #13
    Regular Member JSlack's Avatar
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    I could make it at 10am. count me in. i'll keep watching this thread to see if there will be more.....

  14. #14
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    Personally I would not show up with a group as this dilutes the message that you are engaged in actual lawful library activites. If you show up with a group you could be seen as a protest and they can ask you to leave for being a disruption.

  15. #15
    Regular Member JSlack's Avatar
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    good point. could loosely stage a every 5 minute deal....every 5 minutes a new guy walks in OCing. checks out a book, peruses the isles, and then leaves.

    EDIT
    On the other hand, don't folks meet up at the library to do like a book club or something....I am not a library goer...so I am not well informed, but it seems I have seen separate rooms for this sort of thing...?
    Last edited by JSlack; 08-31-2010 at 03:40 PM.

  16. #16
    Regular Member bennie1986's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heresolong View Post
    Personally I would not show up with a group as this dilutes the message that you are engaged in actual lawful library activites. If you show up with a group you could be seen as a protest and they can ask you to leave for being a disruption.
    It would only be a protest if we make a protest. Personally I don’t want to be involved in a protest I just want to go use the library for its intended purpose.

  17. #17
    Regular Member joejoejoe's Avatar
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    Study group... duh. If there were three of you meeting at the library to study RCW laws regarding firearms, I think it would be a completely legitimate reason to have three of you with guns. If you went in with 15 people, and none of you got a book... well then... yeah

    Joe~

  18. #18
    Regular Member bennie1986's Avatar
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    Update

    So I spoke with Pat Dolton of the City Attorney’s Office and he started giving me the run around saying that you can’t carry at the library because of RCW 9.41.270 (in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.) He said he didn’t know why he was even talking to me and referred me to the attorney that represents the library Mike Piccolo. I left Mike a message about this issue and he got back to me within 5 minutes. He said he would be doing some research in the next few days so he can try and help the staff understand state law. If I don’t hear from him by Friday I will call him back to see what he has accomplished.

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran Bookman's Avatar
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    The city attorney is full of it. RCW 9.41.300 trumps him every time. The rule is illegal, period.
    "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke


    "I like people who stand on the Constitution... unless they're using it to wipe their feet." - Jon E Hutcherson

  20. #20
    Regular Member bennie1986's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
    The city attorney is full of it. RCW 9.41.300 trumps him every time. The rule is illegal, period.
    Thats what I said and thats when he put on his I dont have to answer to you voice and referred me to the attorney for the library.

  21. #21
    Regular Member bennie1986's Avatar
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    The end of the week should have been enough time for the attorney to research this issue and at least send out a memo. So lets make the study session official; This Saturday the 4th of September at 10am lets meet at the South Hill branch for a calm and quite discussion regarding state laws. I have reserved a meeting room from 10am to 1pm.
    Last edited by bennie1986; 08-31-2010 at 07:07 PM.

  22. #22
    Regular Member JSlack's Avatar
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    I'll be there!

  23. #23
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    I would bring your families to help you research gun laws - make it a nice family event at the library!

  24. #24
    Regular Member SnarlyWino's Avatar
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    See you Saturday.
    Keep Calm and Carry On,

    Snarly

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  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Hello All from MI.

    Hi - 1st things 1st ( my avatar is of a Anti-2A guy that is threatening to & asking others to: snipe, bomb, stab, run over OCers [man on left is him the right is charley manson]). See what we have to put up with in MI!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-T70thOVRA

    I would suggest if you go in a group splitting into groups of 2-3 throughout the library & taking multiple video & voice recorders.(This gives you the most area coverage with your cameras) I know that if I would have shown up alone to a Royal Oak City meeting they would not have hesitated to remove me or any other single OCer from the meeting. The laws seem not to apply to our elected officials? It's like a law buffet for them, they enforce the laws (or make them up on the fly) they like, and break the ones they don't, (pick & choose law).

    Good luck & keep up the good fight.
    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 08-31-2010 at 09:38 PM. Reason: typo

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