Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 53

Thread: Warning Shots ( Imaginary scenario)

  1. #1
    Regular Member crackersillo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    , , earth
    Posts
    141

    Lightbulb Warning Shots ( Imaginary Scenario)

    Lets say your walking out of your local grocery store (or what ever) and this BG comes up to you and pulls out a knife and demands your car keys and "WALLET" (that's when you would GO for your weapon) point the gun at him (since he has now threatened you with a deadly weapon & its now legal to do so) tell him to DROP HIS WEAPON!! & GET ON THE GROUND !.. After that.. What if he refuses To Drop his weapon and just stands there looking at you, and you can notice him thinking.. (probably drugged out) Should i attack him? i don't think he would shoot..

    Then What?
    I would prefer to fire a warning shot to let him know i don't f^ck around (wich should be enough for him to come back from his trip, .45 ACP goes BANG! LOUD!!) but is that legal? maybe if there's a good backstop like a big trash can or something like that ?

    i don't find it any better to just wait for him to attack me, and me having to kill this BG..


    Before any one mentions it.. he never noticed you had a gun until it was pointed at him.
    And yes im in the arizona forum so, i live in Arizona.
    Last edited by crackersillo; 08-31-2010 at 03:27 PM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Gravel Switch, KY
    Posts
    544
    Generally, warning shots are a bad idea. If the warning shot were to ricochet and hit an innocent or damage property, you would be liable.

    If one is going to carry a gun, they need to be prepared to use it as it was intended, otherwise the gun very well could be taken and used against them.

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Peoria, AZ
    Posts
    39
    Since he is close enough to hold you at knife point he is close enough to stab you before you draw. If you do draw and give him demands he still has enough time to stab you. If I had a knife close enough to stab some one they pull a gun and fire a warning shot I would be thinking o **** they missed time to stab this a hole. So in this scenario if I was able to draw on him I would fire if I legitimately thought he was going to kill me. I don't see a reason to give some one who is going to kill you any extra time to kill you . There are no rules in a gun fight so I don't believe in warning shots. If cops don't give warning shots why would I.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Gone
    Posts
    3,958
    The knife is already presented... there's the immediate threat. Forget the TV melodrama. Shoot the sumbitch ASAP. Mag dump his ass. Don't stand there and jabber about it. If you're not gonna pull... don't carry the gun.

  5. #5
    Guest
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    958
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonora Rebel View Post
    The knife is already presented... there's the immediate threat. Forget the TV melodrama. Shoot the sumbitch ASAP. Mag dump his ass. Don't stand there and jabber about it. If you're not gonna pull... don't carry the gun.
    +1.

  6. #6
    Regular Member mFonz77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Sierra Vista, AZ
    Posts
    265
    If you fire a warning shot (especially if you're also carrying less-than-lethal) any prosecutor worth his salt will make a compelling argument that you did not legitimately feel threatened with loss of life or grievous bodily injury, ie, you didn't feel the need to shoot the fool in order to save your own life. In that vein, even though you're still alive you'll get charged with discharge within city limits, and if it hits someone, you'll get nailed with aggravated assault.

    Read up on the defensive display statutes, recently passed into law in AZ as of Aug 2009 (I think, maybe Sept.) This further reduces the perceived need for a warning shot (though not for your hypothetical; the knife has already been presented).

    I'm not much on armchair quarterbacking these but they're fun for visualization purposes, so, my .02:
    A) Why did you let ANYONE that you don't know get that close to you. They get within my comfort zone and their body language says "threat" I either have an LED flashlight pointing in their eyes or my hand on my grip.
    B) If the gun comes out and you do not fire you are theoretically brandishing. Defensive display covers verbally informing, or hand on grip, or breaking concealment, NOT drawing down.
    C) Ergo, following B above, if you slap leather you better be ready to shoot.
    D) You didn't specify, but as this is the OC forum, if a dude comes up to you with a knife out and you're OC'ing, it is perfectly reasonable to assume he is whacked out of this world. Shoot.
    Last edited by mFonz77; 08-31-2010 at 05:53 PM.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    God's Country, Missouri
    Posts
    1,279
    The only acceptable use for the bullets in your firearm is to protect your life when presented with a reasonable threat to life or limb.

    Any jury will hang you for firing warning shots as you evidently were not in immediate danger.

    You had time to fire a warning shot, right?

    Reminds me of the guy here in St. Louis who was standing behind a guy in White Castle who decided to rob the place.

    Robber pulls out gun and points it at the clerk.

    CCW holder pulls weapon, and "as seen on T.V." yells "FREEZE!"

    Robber turns and puts 3 bullets into CCW holder. (Luckily, he lived.)

    Warnings work real good at 1) getting you in trouble 2) getting you killed.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Walt_Kowalski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Ashburn, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    355
    Quote Originally Posted by GWbiker View Post
    +1.
    +2
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"
    -- George Washington

  9. #9
    Regular Member crackersillo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    , , earth
    Posts
    141

    im not saying..

    Quote Originally Posted by sonora rebel View Post
    the knife is already presented... There's the immediate threat. Forget the tv melodrama. Shoot the sumbitch asap. Mag dump his ass. Don't stand there and jabber about it. If you're not gonna pull... Don't carry the gun.


    I'm not saying i wouldn't shoot the guy or that i don't feel capable of defending my self or my family. "its an imaginary scenario" i was thinking maybe one of you would say "carry pepper spray" or something like that.. Its not about shooting him or NOT its about "Options" "USING A HIGHER VOICE" maybe start talking Sh!t to him. "INTIMIDATION TACTICS" (if theres such a thing)

    and he (the BG) dos'nt necessarily need to be 2 steps in front of the GG.

    and yea i know a person can travel 20 feet in 3.4 seconds.. (something like that. the point is not to consider the distance between you and him (BG) just react! )
    Last edited by crackersillo; 08-31-2010 at 06:45 PM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona, U.S.
    Posts
    625
    Sounds like you need some self defense training. Sure, there are different options for different scenarios. However, when one points a knife at you (which is a deadly weapon) and threatens you with it, the best option is to draw a handgun and fire enough shots into the center of mass of the attacker until both the attacker and the knife are on the ground and no longer moving. Emergency situations like this leave you with mere seconds to think and react. You don't have time to argue with him or think of other options. He threatened your life with a deadly weapon. You end his. Problem solved.

  11. #11
    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    907
    Quote Originally Posted by crackersillo View Post
    I would prefer to fire a warning shot to let him know i don't f^ck around (wich should be enough for him to come back from his trip, .45 ACP goes BANG! LOUD!!) but is that legal? maybe if there's a good backstop like a big trash can or something like that ?
    1. If you fire a warning shot, you have just demonstrated to the police, prosecuting attorney, judge and jury that you did not feel threatened enough in this situtation to defend yourself. You are now the bad guy.

    2. Firing the warning shot demonstrated to the bad guy that you aren't serious, plus you just wasted valuable time.

    3. You just wasted a round that you might really need. Remember the 50% rule - you will only be 1/2 as good in a real situation as your last day at the range.

    4. You are responsible for every round that leaves your gun. It's like each bullet has an attorney attached eager to sue you for hurting someone or damaging their property. Remember the basic rule - know your target and what is line with it.

    5. The time to make a decision to shoot is made BEFORE the gun comes out of the hoslter.

    CARDINAL RULE: If it's not worth dying for, it's not worth shooting for. Even firing a warning shot will change your life forever and all in very negative ways. If it's not worth dying for, it's not worth shooting for.

    Fred
    Last edited by azcdlfred; 08-31-2010 at 08:03 PM.

  12. #12
    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    907
    Quote Originally Posted by protector84 View Post
    Sounds like you need some self defense training
    The ads to Front Sight are all over this website. I have been going there for over 5 years and highly recommend it. They go over scenarios like the one on this thread in the 4-day pistol class. You can pick up a certificate for a 4-day pistol class on eBay for about $200. Even if you never go back, you'll be at a very high skill level.

    Here is Arizona, Gunsite is in Paulden. I've been there. They are very good. They teach the same fundamentals as Front Sight, but I prefer Front Sight and the ability to have a membership.

    Training is critical and it never stops.

    Fred

  13. #13
    Regular Member Phoenix David's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Glendale, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    629
    Front Sight is having a special on it's mid week Four Day Defensive Handgun Course for only $89

    http://www.frontsight.com/courses/de...ing-course.asp

    Back to the topic - If someone presents to me a deadly weapon, based on my experience, training and understanding of the self defense laws a reasonable person would be in fear of their life or of serious bodily harm and I would be justified in using force up to and including deadly force to stop the attack.

    Nor would I give a verbal warning of my intentions when they are on top of me, the time for the verbal warning/challenge is when they are coming my way and due to the fact that my SA is always yellow when I am out and about odds are I will be aware of them before they are on top of me and I can take what ever defensive actions I need. But if for some reason I am caught off-guard, see above.
    Freedom is a bit like sex, when your getting it you take it for granted, when you're not you want it bad, other people get mad at you for having it and others want to take it away from you so only they have it.

  14. #14
    Regular Member crackersillo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    , , earth
    Posts
    141

    good.. good

    Quote Originally Posted by azcdlfred View Post
    1. If you fire a warning shot, you have just demonstrated to the police, prosecuting attorney, judge and jury that you did not feel threatened enough in this situtation to defend yourself. You are now the bad guy.

    2. Firing the warning shot demonstrated to the bad guy that you aren't serious, plus you just wasted valuable time.

    3. You just wasted a round that you might really need. Remember the 50% rule - you will only be 1/2 as good in a real situation as your last day at the range.

    4. You are responsible for every round that leaves your gun. It's like each bullet has an attorney attached eager to sue you for hurting someone or damaging their property. Remember the basic rule - know your target and what is line with it.

    5. The time to make a decision to shoot is made BEFORE the gun comes out of the hoslter.

    CARDINAL RULE: If it's not worth dying for, it's not worth shooting for. Even firing a warning shot will change your life forever and all in very negative ways. If it's not worth dying for, it's not worth shooting for.

    Fred

    +1

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Posts
    333
    + one on the above post



    Some say that you should not let a knife wielding attacker with a 21' radius. The reasoning is an attacker can cover 21' faster than a person reacts and fires 1 shot.

    How fast can you clear leather and fire 2 rounds on a low fast moving target. Now think about how fast a young guy can cover 21' with surprise on his side.

    At 8 or 10 feet the odds are a knife wielding attacker will get steel into you before you can shoot him off. There are a number of vids that demonstrate this very well. Within knife range, you need to be shooting the attacker...not some stinking garbage can. A firearm is not a threat, a firearm is a threat resolution tool.

    IMO


    Steve
    Last edited by .45acp; 08-31-2010 at 10:50 PM.
    Steve


    "Life is hard, its even harder when you are stupid!"

  16. #16
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766
    [QUOTE=crackersillo;1344039] the OP [QUOTE]

    To answer the OPers question, "then what?": Most, if not all of the self-defense authorities will tell you distance is your friend, as is cover.

    If you choose to present, rather than shoot, move away.

    I would be inclined to present and back away myself if the situation seemed to permit it with a knife robber. Or maybe move quickly laterally towards a parked car or something while drawing and presenting

    By not actually attacking, the knife robber has put himself behind my action/reaction curve.

    If I can avoid actually shooting someone, I also avoid the police investigation, the possible arrest while police sort things out, having my gun seized, legal bills, and legal jeopardy if the prosecutor decides maybe it wasn't a self-defense shooting.

    While some criminals might be so hopped up on PCP or meth they think my presented gun can be ignored, I'm guessing that the majority of them are plenty scared of holes in their skin.

  17. #17
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766
    Quote Originally Posted by mFonz77 View Post
    SNIP If the gun comes out and you do not fire you are theoretically brandishing. Defensive display covers verbally informing, or hand on grip, or breaking concealment, NOT drawing down.
    I've heard and read such, too; but I am not so sure about this anymore. Police do it regularly in this country--draw before any actual need to shoot manifests.

    Remember, police are very restricted in shooting criminals. After, Tennessee vs Garner, policeare limited to using guns mainly for self-defense and stopping felons dangerous to the community. In light of Garner the low-ready's we see so often in videos are not to apprehend the criminal, but to be ready sooner to defend themselves in case the criminal escalates to lethal force.

    Also, if you were clearing your own home, would you leave the gun in the holster to avoid a brandishing charge? Thousands of homes have been cleared with guns in hand, by both police and homeowners--even though no criminal offering lethal force is in sight. I'm not discussing Castle Doctrine here; I'm using this as another example of how it can be very wise to have the gun in hand even though there is no actual need to shoot, yet--to shorten the reaction time in case it really does become necessary.

    Of course, one would not draw just because someone was talking smack.

    Also, gun magazines are full of "brandishings" by citizens who didn't fire, for example Combat Handguns column It Happened to Me. One that comes to mind, maybe from that magazine, was the story of a fella being followed too closely. The follower got impatient. The citizen pulled over. The follower got out of his vehicle and picked up a jack. Not a jack handle--a jack! And, started walking towards the citizen's vehicle in a rage. The citizen drew his large revolver, got out, and pointed it at the jack-man, who promptly melted into a wimpering apologist, quickly got back in his vehicle, and drove off.

    I think the latest edition of that magazine has the story of a female convenience store clerk who drew on three bad guys who were making verbal threats, maybe to include a knife. They promptly left. No shots, just a "brandishing" on her part, plus a few choice words or commands.
    Last edited by Citizen; 09-01-2010 at 12:40 AM.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Snakemathis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Prescott Valley, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    107
    As pertaining to your question about less-than-lethal weapons, I do NOT carry less-than-lethal while I am carrying my handgun. Its either a fist fight or a shoot out. If you have a tazer on you but you shoot a guy with a knife instead of tazing him, you were justified to do so, but the defense lawyer is gonna rip you a new one because you didnt exercise all of your options. I look at less-than-lethal as more of a liability. If you dont try it, your screwed; if you do and it doesnt work, your screwed. If you dont have it as an option, you cant catch any BS in court for your use, or lack there of, of the less-than-lethal. Just my opinion.
    YMMV
    IANAL
    "Know firearms, know safety. No firearms, no safety"
    "If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts."

  19. #19
    Regular Member crackersillo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    , , earth
    Posts
    141

    Exactly..

    [QUOTE=Citizen;1344420][QUOTE=crackersillo;1344039] the OP

    To answer the OPers question, "then what?": Most, if not all of the self-defense authorities will tell you distance is your friend, as is cover.

    If you choose to present, rather than shoot, move away.

    I would be inclined to present and back away myself if the situation seemed to permit it with a knife robber. Or maybe move quickly laterally towards a parked car or something while drawing and presenting

    By not actually attacking, the knife robber has put himself behind my action/reaction curve.

    If I can avoid actually shooting someone, I also avoid the police investigation, the possible arrest while police sort things out, having my gun seized, legal bills, and legal jeopardy if the prosecutor decides maybe it wasn't a self-defense shooting.

    While some criminals might be so hopped up on PCP or meth they think my presented gun can be ignored, I'm guessing that the majority of them are plenty scared of holes in their skin.

    10+

    That was exactly my point ! Not all of us dream of killing anybody even if its a BG (IF YOU CAN AVOID IT OF COURSE) if he had a gun it would be a totally different storie..

  20. #20
    Regular Member crackersillo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    , , earth
    Posts
    141

    Thumbs up There We Go..

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I've heard and read such, too; but I am not so sure about this anymore. Police do it regularly in this country--draw before any actual need to shoot manifests.

    Remember, police are very restricted in shooting criminals. After, Tennessee vs Garner, policeare limited to using guns mainly for self-defense and stopping felons dangerous to the community. In light of Garner the low-ready's we see so often in videos are not to apprehend the criminal, but to be ready sooner to defend themselves in case the criminal escalates to lethal force.

    Also, if you were clearing your own home, would you leave the gun in the holster to avoid a brandishing charge? Thousands of homes have been cleared with guns in hand, by both police and homeowners--even though no criminal offering lethal force is in sight. I'm not discussing Castle Doctrine here; I'm using this as another example of how it can be very wise to have the gun in hand even though there is no actual need to shoot, yet--to shorten the reaction time in case it really does become necessary.

    Of course, one would not draw just because someone was talking smack.

    Also, gun magazines are full of "brandishings" by citizens who didn't fire, for example Combat Handguns column It Happened to Me. One that comes to mind, maybe from that magazine, was the story of a fella being followed too closely. The follower got impatient. The citizen pulled over. The follower got out of his vehicle and picked up a jack. Not a jack handle--a jack! And, started walking towards the citizen's vehicle in a rage. The citizen drew his large revolver, got out, and pointed it at the jack-man, who promptly melted into a wimpering apologist, quickly got back in his vehicle, and drove off.

    I think the latest edition of that magazine has the story of a female convenience store clerk who drew on three bad guys who were making verbal threats, maybe to include a knife. They promptly left. No shots, just a "brandishing" on her part, plus a few choice words or commands.


    +1 Good Info.. thanx

  21. #21
    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    907
    Quote Originally Posted by .45acp View Post
    Some say that you should not let a knife wielding attacker with a 21' radius. The reasoning is an attacker can cover 21' faster than a person reacts and fires 1 shot.
    When I took my first pistol class at Gunsite (1999), they demonstrated the 21' rule by having us face the target with another student standing behind us touching our back with their hand. That student was instructed to remove his hand from our back and run like hell to the back of the range (behind us). The removal of his hand from my back was the "go" signal to draw and shoot the target in front of me. The minimum distance covered by the runner in this scenario was 21'.

    Bear in mind that we all knew what was coming and we were ready to grab our guns the moment we got the signal and they still made it at LEAST 21'.

    Now, put yourself in a knife vs gun scenario in the real world. Even in Condition Yellow, by the time your brain registers the threat coming at you with a knife, he's already covered lots of ground. By the time you get your gun out of the holster, you are probably mortally wounded and incapacitated.

    Fred

  22. #22
    Regular Member mFonz77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Sierra Vista, AZ
    Posts
    265
    Fred thanks for that info on Front Sight...I might consider going next time AZCDL does a trip now (I prefer to "try" or at least read testimonials before I drop that kind of coin).

    To Citizen: a few thoughts:
    -Police are different. I'm sure rules of engagement vary by agency, but for them most part LEOs can go one step higher on the force continuum when combating force presented against. Plus, and IANAL, but I'm pretty sure most LEOs are given the benefit of the doubt if it comes down to it. Has anyone ever heard of an LEO getting sued for brandishing? Thought not.
    -As far as clearing your own home, well, that goes off course from the OP's hypothetical. In your house you can light your stove with a flamethrower if you want. I have gone through my house at low ready in the past when I heard a weird noise or my motion lights popped on. If it's your property you can do whatever you want. However, in the OP's post the two actors were on public property.
    -On that last point about brandishing, I re-read it and what you put and I think I didn't articulate that very well. As far as your example with the car jack, that would definitely be a "reasonable" time to draw.

    Here I will reference the JAM model (or AOJ as some call it): JEOPARDY, ABILITY, AND MEANS.

    Jeopardy - the other person's actions or words provide you with a reasonably-perceived belief that he intends to kill you cause grievous bodily injury
    Ability - the person has the ability to use the his means of attack against you
    Means - the person has the means to kill or cause g.b.i

    So, in your car jack situation, J (yes, a car jack will f you up) + A (the person is able-bodied, coming towards you, and capable of lifting/manipulating the jack) + M (the person is close enough or getting close enough to use it).

    To be sure, no one gets free hits. You don't have to wait until you're hit once with the jack to shoot. And in that same situation I would definitely draw.

    Re-reading the original thread, I guess here is a better answer: if the guy presents his knife and you draw and he just stands there, you BACK AWAY. I was re-reading ARS and Korwin's book; this could *possibly* be construed as the knife dude's "Withdrawal" from the conflict (making you the agressor).

    Doesn't have to make sense, it's just the law.

    ETA: Here is a pretty good article on AOJ/JAM, and a good site all around, especially for women shooters or convincing the wife/girlfriend to like your guns: http://corneredcat.com/Legal/AOJ.aspx
    Last edited by mFonz77; 09-01-2010 at 12:28 PM.

  23. #23
    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    907

    Front Sight

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix David View Post
    Front Sight is having a special on it's mid week Four Day Defensive Handgun Course for only $89
    http://www.frontsight.com/courses/defensive-handgun-training-course.asp
    They started the offer at $69 and now raised it to $89. It'll probably end real soon, once they have determined they sold enough to fill the new classes.

    This is Front Sight's first venture into weekday classes. They've been growing like mad, adding new ranges and recruitng more instructors. When I took a class in March, they had 800 students at the facility that weekend.

    If you've never been to Front Sight, I strongly recommend grabbing the $89 deal. That's $89 for a $2,000 class. The class runs over 40 hours over 4 days. The focus of the class is fundamentals.

    By the end of the class you'll take a skills test in both shooting and malfunctions & relaoding. For body shots, they have to be in the thoracic (heart & lung area) cavity. For head shots they have to be in the ocular cavity (about the size of a 3x5 card). You'll wear a cover garment (vest or shirt) over your gun for the test. The shooting test starts at 3 yards and goes to 15 or 25 yards depending on the range. At 7 yards, you have 2.1 seconds to get a controlled pair into the thoracic cavity, starting from a holstered gun under your shirt or vest. You'll be amazed at the skill level you attain by the end of the class. Even if you blow the test you'll still be better than you every thought you could be.

    It's the cheapest you'll ever pay for an incredible training experience.

    Full disclosure - I have had a membership in Front Sight for over 5 years and take 2-3 classes there every year.

    Fred

  24. #24
    Regular Member mFonz77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Sierra Vista, AZ
    Posts
    265
    Where is the special? I don't see in on that page...

  25. #25
    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    907
    Quote Originally Posted by mFonz77 View Post
    Where is the special? I don't see in on that page...
    Here is the link:
    http://www.ignatius-piazza-front-sig...aining-for-89/

    It's a steal. I've taken the class at least 3 times, mainly because I'm bringing someone new to Front Sight. Each time I have an "aha!" moment and learn something new. The focus is on shoot-and-move fundamentals ala Jeff Cooper. It is NOT Rambo school or a military basic training scream fest. It is training for adults by adults. You will also get an introduction to shooting with a flashlight. They show how to correctly go through doorways followed by a house clearing exercise. They also put you in a home invasion scenario. For fun there is a "man-on-man" competition on the 3rd day.

    Safety is paramount. Some students have never shot a gun before. Many others think they know how to shoot, but don't. Each day starts at 7:30 AM. If you're not there, they start without you.

    On the first day, you'll fire your first shot by around 10 AM. From there the pace picks up. Eventually you're dealing with turning targets. Turning speed is ramped up over the remaining days until by the 4th day they are at test speeds. By the 3rd day, a cover garment is required. You are tested in the afternoon of the 4th day. The test is only an indicator of your skill level. A high score is only necessary for those wanting to take advanced classes.

    Range time is broken up by an excellent classroom lecture series, one of which deals with moral, ethical and legal issues involving shooting someone. They use the cops taking classes to demonstrate what will happen to you when the cops arrive on the scene while you're holding the smoking gun over the dead body.

    For $89 it's an incredible deal, even if you never take another course.

    Fred
    Last edited by azcdlfred; 09-01-2010 at 05:56 PM.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •