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Permits question

protias

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I believe in the theory of constitutional carry but I'm not sure how many yahoos without any training I want running around armed. I gotta say that back when the constitution was framed men were different. There was more honor and less criminally minded individuals around.

Seems to be working pretty well for those that do not require permits to carry.
 

protias

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I guess that is what baffles me. Why is it OK for me to OC with no training/permit but all of a sudden I wear a jacket and I need training?

You got me. Just like I can join the military, fire fully automatic weapons, use grenades, etc, but in many places, I cannot be trusted with stuff? It is asinine!
 

paul@paul-fisher.com

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I hope that you'll call them out, "liars', when and if its time - with citations to publicly accessible statements.

I will do my best. I really believe if just the WI members of OCDO became activist, we can do it this next session. All we need to do is get one section of the statutes repealed, right? Repeal 941 and the GFSZ law and voilas! I know, it sounds easier than it is.
 

protias

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Yah but you are highly trained before you handle military stuff. My point exactly.
My point is, if I were a veteran, why would I not be able to have these things? Now, people also say we should not carry because we don't "train." Personally, I go to the range every 2 weeks. How many police can say the same thing?
 

Spartacus

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My point is, if I were a veteran, why would I not be able to have these things? Now, people also say we should not carry because we don't "train." Personally, I go to the range every 2 weeks. How many police can say the same thing?

Some cops shoot a lot and some don't. But, and its a big ole butt, they have many in-services on what to do in what situation; when to draw and when to fire; when to use deadly force or pull out the tasers or mace; etc., etc., etc...

Lets take Bender for example. He was telling me Sunday that his business is in a crappy neighborhood and full of nasty characters. He feels good that he and his employees can be armed which is a deterrent to crime, obviously. Now, insert constitutional carry into the picture and arm those losers that are not felons but are felons in training with Saturday night specials and I'll bet you McX don't feel so comfortable anymore.

Permitting and training will weed out some but not all of those people.
 

protias

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SE, WI
Some cops shoot a lot and some don't. But, and its a big ole butt, they have many in-services on what to do in what situation; when to draw and when to fire; when to use deadly force or pull out the tasers or mace; etc., etc., etc...

Lets take Bender for example. He was telling me Sunday that his business is in a crappy neighborhood and full of nasty characters. He feels good that he and his employees can be armed which is a deterrent to crime, obviously. Now, insert constitutional carry into the picture and arm those losers that are not felons but are felons in training with Saturday night specials and I'll bet you McX don't feel so comfortable anymore.

Permitting and training will weed out some but not all of those people.

What the...? How many times have you heard about a person in VT or AK having to draw? Criminals rarely attack those who are armed just because they know the person can fight back. And what is a Saturday Night Special? Sounds like a handgun the liberals thought up to make it sound scary. I know McX feels very safe in his shop. He knows the criminals in his area. He knows many of them carry (illegally too I might add, in more than one fashion). I would personally feel safer knowing more people are carrying around me. Why? Because if something happens to me, I know someone else can stop the attacker.

Can you please point to one place in the Us Constitution and WI Constitution that requires any type of training to permits? I agree that training is good, but it shouldn't be required. I don't need a permit to go vote, voice my opinions, be a juror, or anything like that. Why do I need a permit to exercise a way to protect myself, family, friends, and/or personal property?
 

Spartacus

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Can you please point to one place in the Us Constitution and WI Constitution that requires any type of training to permits? I agree that training is good, but it shouldn't be required. I don't need a permit to go vote, voice my opinions, be a juror, or anything like that. Why do I need a permit to exercise a way to protect myself, family, friends, and/or personal property?

You are preaching to the choir. The only difference between us is is that I am a theoretical constitutionalist and you are a practical constitutionalist. I understand that what I would like to see and what exists in reality are two different things.
 

protias

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You are preaching to the choir. The only difference between us is is that I am a theoretical constitutionalist and you are a practical constitutionalist. I understand that what I would like to see and what exists in reality are two different things.

I don't think you can theorize the Constitution. Either it means what it says or it doesn't.
 

Spartacus

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I don't think you can theorize the Constitution. Either it means what it says or it doesn't.

Tell that to SCOTUS who are supposed to enforce the constitution but in most cases end up interpreting it for modern times with split decisions in every instance.

Its like talking about the Bible. Will gays burn in hell for eternity or does God love them same as straights? You tell me.
 
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paul@paul-fisher.com

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Tell that to SCOTUS who are supposed to enforce the constitution but in most cases end up interpreting it for modern times with split decisions in every instance.

Its like talking about the Bible. Will gays burn in hell for eternity or does God love them same as straights? You tell me.

I agree. Honest people can disagree about interpretation, that's why I think it's better to argue WI Constitution.

As to who is going to hell, that is above my pay grade. God doesn't distinguish between sins. A little white lie is the same as genocide in his eyes.
 
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