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Thread: Who was detained in Lansing today?

  1. #1
    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    Who was detained in Lansing today?

    Today,around 2:10pm on the scanner i heard a MWAG go out on a guy with an openly displayed holstered handgun,no threats made.officers responded to check it out,havent heard anything on scanner regarding it since.

    black male black t shirt red and white checkered shorts,corner of shepard and perkins,a residential area near Aurelius rd. north of mt. hope and south of 496,very close to potter park zoo.



    Who was it? Is everything alright?, If anything bad happened Let people know(dont give out too many details w/o lawyer consent) so that the situation may be corrected.

    Here is the dispatch audio.

    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    Maybe no one was detained..

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    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    I can hope thats what happened,but the LEO said he would check it out,which has me worried that somebody is sitting in a cell right now unjustly,or was wrongly ticketed.

    I know that Lansing wont bother you for carry itself,as long as its lawful,but they will harass you about anything else they think they can get away with....
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    If you heard the MWAG go out then why not the follow-up?

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    Regular Member kyleplusitunes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
    If you heard the MWAG go out then why not the follow-up?
    you mean why would the cop check it out? cause it's not illegal, what if they received a man mowing his lawn call, should they check that out too?

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    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyleplusitunes View Post
    you mean why would the cop check it out? cause it's not illegal, what if they received a man mowing his lawn call, should they check that out too?

    I actually OC EVERY time I mow my lawn. Kinda funny you mentioned that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyleplusitunes View Post
    you mean why would the cop check it out? cause it's not illegal, what if they received a man mowing his lawn call, should they check that out too?
    I would humbly submit that, "before jumping to conclusions, you wait for clarification."

    Furthermore, there is nothing wrong with the cop, "checking it out". Desensitizing the public is a process that takes longer than over night. Besides, the dispatch said that, "the caller requested that a officer check it out."

    What I find interesting and wonder about is that lil' freak doesn't report any other air traffic on the incident. Seems there should have been some sort of report back on the officer's findings. I'd be just as interested in hearing that.

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    Very misleading thread title. Should have read, "who oc'd in Lansing today...MWAG came across scanner about you".

    I highly doubt anyone is sitting in a cell right now. It's possible only a FOIA will ever tell the story, maybe the OC'er isn't on this forum.

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    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    Im very interested in a FOIA as well,just to know what happened.

    If the mods will change my thread title,ill have them do it to make it fit the thread better.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    One thing I wish non-LEO people would understand is that, when we get a MWAG call from dispatch we HAVE TO CHECK IT OUT. I dont have a choice on contact/watch the guy or whatever.

    My Options. Scenario MWAG Call put out.

    1. Ignore it. Then the supervisor asks who is available to check it out. Crickets on the radio. Supervisor then assigns someone to check it out. After the mess the guy assigned to check it out has to write a memo for not responding, especially if he wasn't doing anything. He may have a chance if he was busy.

    2. Respond to dispatch that you will check it out, then ignore it. Public is watching and never sees a LEO initiate contact, gets all pissy and calls station back. Supervisors look up to see who should have responded, and memos follow.

    3. Respond to dispatch that you will show up. Show up, talk to guy. You try to ask a couple questions like Hows it going? Person starts in right away with am i being detained. red flags are raised with LEO and here comes 1000 new options.

    Or guy says, not much just hanging out. LEO says Ok have a nice day. Maybe explains why he is here, for all the person knows the LEO is just being friendly. LEO calls dispatch and calls it Code 4 all clear.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy05 View Post
    3. Respond to dispatch that you will show up. Show up, talk to guy. You try to ask a couple questions like Hows it going? Person starts in right away with am i being detained. red flags are raised with LEO and here comes 1000 new options.

    Or guy says, not much just hanging out. LEO says Ok have a nice day. Maybe explains why he is here, for all the person knows the LEO is just being friendly. LEO calls dispatch and calls it Code 4 all clear.
    I respectfully disagree, even though I understand, and agree with what you're saying from the standpoint of the job of a well intentioned cop.

    The thing is, you and I and everyone here know that in the course of a stop, it cannot help to talk to the cops, aside from gathering evidence with wash rinse repeat as was done in Marysville, and this is the rare exception for skilled and experienced people, not the rule.

    Many many times, people here have been detained by cops, and foolishly kept talking, which drew out the detention, and in some cases provided for a later prosecution. This is why I am adamant that the only thing to be said to a dispatched cop, or an otherwise intrusive cop is to ask if being detained, and to explain that you're only willing to discuss these things at a later date and in writing to avoid confusion.

    Police have to cover their asses, open carriers, and indeed all responsible non cop civilians need to do the same. This doesn't imply cooperation at all times, nor should it. It's something of a check and balance of power, particularly in a state like Michigan with such a heavy us against them mindset held by so many cops.
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    well my post was more for options 1 and 2, so people understand why LEOs even show up. Do what you want for option 3.

    Here is a good example from about a month ago

    Im parked in a residential area, and I see a lady walking a dog, so I say, Hi hows it going? Im just trying to be friendly!!!!! She asks me why im racial profiling her!!

    You can wash rinse and repeat, but try to be polite! Remember you dont have to ask if you are being detained, just ignore the LEO if you want, if you ARE BEING DETAINED you will know it and not need to ask. JUST WALK AWAY. If he runs up to you and stands in your way, then you are being detained. If you try to walk away and he gets in your way or physically stops you, well you know!

    If your at a park and not doing anything wrong, and you are a hardcore wash rinse repeat, why are you even making contact. Just ignore the LEO! The LEO will either detain you or watch you leave.

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    Jeremy05, thanks for checking in and commenting. I always like reading the LEO's perspective. Stay safe out there.

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy05 View Post
    -snip-

    If your at a park and not doing anything wrong, and you are a hardcore wash rinse repeat, why are you even making contact. Just ignore the LEO! The LEO will either detain you or watch you leave.
    Please do not take any of my post, other than the very last sentence, personally... my intention is to engage in discussion only.

    I am confused? If an LEO comes up to talk with a MWAG isn't the LEO the one "making contact"? And isn't the refusal to engage in that "contact" one of the things some LEO's take issue with?

    If I am in a park, or a store, or anywhere it is legal to carry my sidearm, why should I be the one to leave? I didn't initiate the contact.

    Just for information purposes....

    I am decidedly pro LEO... and I have excellent personal reasons for that. I am also decidedly pro "rule of law".

    However.......why do I get the impression that some LEO's expect people to not mind proving their innocence? That it is OK to "contact" people engaged in a lawful activity and expect them to explain themselves?

    The thing is... an LEO never engages in a casual conversation with a stranger... an LEO always asks probing and leading questions ("fishes") in an effort to categorize that stranger into either "good guy" or "possible criminal".

    I, and I'm sure many others, have experienced what an LEO considers "conversation" but is really "fishing". And LEO's have been trained in what questions, and how to ask them, in order to draw responses from the person being questioned. And yes, to an LEO a "conversation" with a stranger is nothing more than a soft investigation.

    I will never consider the idea that I shouldn't mind answering questions to prove I'm doing nothing wrong and that I shouldn't mind "showing my papers" if I have nothing to hide as being acceptable!

    And to all LEO's, including you personally JeremyO5.... honestly and sincerely.... I want you all to stay safe and go home to your family at the end of each and every shift...
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy05 View Post
    One thing I wish non-LEO people would understand is that, when we get a MWAG call from dispatch we HAVE TO CHECK IT OUT. I dont have a choice on contact/watch the guy or whatever.

    My Options. Scenario MWAG Call put out.

    1. Ignore it. Then the supervisor asks who is available to check it out. Crickets on the radio. Supervisor then assigns someone to check it out. After the mess the guy assigned to check it out has to write a memo for not responding, especially if he wasn't doing anything. He may have a chance if he was busy.

    2. Respond to dispatch that you will check it out, then ignore it. Public is watching and never sees a LEO initiate contact, gets all pissy and calls station back. Supervisors look up to see who should have responded, and memos follow.

    3. Respond to dispatch that you will show up. Show up, talk to guy. You try to ask a couple questions like Hows it going? Person starts in right away with am i being detained. red flags are raised with LEO and here comes 1000 new options.

    Or guy says, not much just hanging out. LEO says Ok have a nice day. Maybe explains why he is here, for all the person knows the LEO is just being friendly. LEO calls dispatch and calls it Code 4 all clear.
    Thanks for your service, as well as chiming in on this with your professional perspective.

    Now,
    First. As the author of, "WASH, RINSE, REPEAT', I strongly agree with jeremy05 that it's more often than not best to be polite. Unfortunately, I've lived long enough to have made the observation that sometimes it matters not how one acts, because there is always going to be someone who chooses to take offense, or find some suspicion. Sad, but that's life. However, there is no reason that "WASH, RINSE, REPEAT" cannot be done in a polite manner. My experience is that when people are not so, it is usually a credit to their own personal insecurities. Therefore, if you have difficulty in this area, then that is were you need to concentrate your efforts.

    Second,

    The above emboldened (about raising suspicions) is a good indication that more people need to be doing it. On a personal level, I believe it's important to hold our civil servants accountable to their professional standards, and while simply asking for RAS, nature of encounter, etc.. "WASH, RINSE, REPEAT", it helps foment a better relationship between LE, and the private citizenry. Look at it this way. It took generations for the LE community to get honest, law-abiding citizens to submit to some types of treatment that should not have been allowed. Fifty years ago, it was commonplace for the local officer to hold a friendly conversation with a neighborhood resident. Not so anymore, and there are plenty of videos, and reports to demonstrate exactly why gun owners (CC/OC, or any other for that matter)
    should take steps to protect ones rights, and to make one's potential lawyer's job easier. But I digress. The matter is that, "The more the people ask such questions on the street, the more commonplace it will become. The more commonplace it becomes, the easier it is for the next guy to exercise his rights, and the easier it is for the beat officer to know the boundaries (making his job not only easier, but also safer in many ways)."

    Here's the thing about jermey05's statement that, "Person starts in right away with am i being detained. red flags are raised with LEO and here comes 1000 new options." makes me wonder about. What are those supposed "1000 options?" because with me, there are only two at present. Those are, "Yes", or "No". What happens after that depends upon the answer. Don't answer that question (or the one asking if I'm under arrest), and that is what is going to raise the red flag. In that case, don't be surprised to see my backside as I leave you to your own devices, because if I'm not under arrest/detained (and your being evasive in answering those questions), then I don't have to stay (and most likely won't), and walking does not raise the level of suspicion.

    While I've learned to take steps to protect myself, I did so because I realized that (from experience) the evasiveness of the officer was a good indication that he wasn't just, "having a casual conversation". Beyond anything to do with motor vehicle violations, I've never been arrested or charged (although I can assure you some have most certainly tried).

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    Regular Member Walt_Kowalski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy05 View Post
    One thing I wish non-LEO people would understand is that, when we get a MWAG call from dispatch we HAVE TO CHECK IT OUT. I dont have a choice on contact/watch the guy or whatever.

    My Options. Scenario MWAG Call put out.

    1. Ignore it. Then the supervisor asks who is available to check it out. Crickets on the radio. Supervisor then assigns someone to check it out. After the mess the guy assigned to check it out has to write a memo for not responding, especially if he wasn't doing anything. He may have a chance if he was busy.

    2. Respond to dispatch that you will check it out, then ignore it. Public is watching and never sees a LEO initiate contact, gets all pissy and calls station back. Supervisors look up to see who should have responded, and memos follow.

    3. Respond to dispatch that you will show up. Show up, talk to guy. You try to ask a couple questions like Hows it going? Person starts in right away with am i being detained. red flags are raised with LEO and here comes 1000 new options.

    Or guy says, not much just hanging out. LEO says Ok have a nice day. Maybe explains why he is here, for all the person knows the LEO is just being friendly. LEO calls dispatch and calls it Code 4 all clear.

    It is frustrating, especially when dispatchers are not trained to let the caller know that it is legal, and that persons right as a citizen to be OCing... thus saving you the time and call, and letting you perform your duties as an officer where you are REALLY needed.
    Last edited by Walt_Kowalski; 09-01-2010 at 05:05 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt_Kowalski View Post
    It is frustrating, especially when dispatchers are not trained to let the caller know that it is legal, and that persons right as a citizen to be OCing... thus saving you the time and call, and letting you perform your duties as an officer where you are REALLY needed.
    This is the exact reasoning that the USSC ruled in FL v J. L. that the gun is not an exception to the 4th Amendment, because it would "rove to far", and make it too easy for people to use LE as a tool of harassment of gun carriers (an otherwise legal activity).

  18. #18
    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    Lansing is well versed on OC law(granted,they will harass the sh*t out of you whenever you are not carrying,or concealed,after your known to carry)

    The dispatch is by county,and they were not formally trained on how to handle an OC call from what i know.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


  19. #19
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    I won't leave my house without a weapon PERIOD! Yes even to check the mail. over 3 decades of carry and I feel naked without my weapon.


    Quote Originally Posted by malignity View Post
    I actually OC EVERY time I mow my lawn. Kinda funny you mentioned that.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    Please do not take any of my post, other than the very last sentence, personally... my intention is to engage in discussion only.

    I am confused? If an LEO comes up to talk with a MWAG isn't the LEO the one "making contact"? And isn't the refusal to engage in that "contact" one of the things some LEO's take issue with?

    If I am in a park, or a store, or anywhere it is legal to carry my sidearm, why should I be the one to leave? I didn't initiate the contact.

    Just for information purposes....

    I am decidedly pro LEO... and I have excellent personal reasons for that. I am also decidedly pro "rule of law".

    However.......why do I get the impression that some LEO's expect people to not mind proving their innocence? That it is OK to "contact" people engaged in a lawful activity and expect them to explain themselves?

    The thing is... an LEO never engages in a casual conversation with a stranger... an LEO always asks probing and leading questions ("fishes") in an effort to categorize that stranger into either "good guy" or "possible criminal".

    I, and I'm sure many others, have experienced what an LEO considers "conversation" but is really "fishing". And LEO's have been trained in what questions, and how to ask them, in order to draw responses from the person being questioned. And yes, to an LEO a "conversation" with a stranger is nothing more than a soft investigation.

    I will never consider the idea that I shouldn't mind answering questions to prove I'm doing nothing wrong and that I shouldn't mind "showing my papers" if I have nothing to hide as being acceptable!

    And to all LEO's, including you personally JeremyO5.... honestly and sincerely.... I want you all to stay safe and go home to your family at the end of each and every shift...
    I am also 100% Pro-LEO,and believe that when a MWAG call produces someone OCing,legality has already been shown and there is no reason to approach or question whatsoever.Thats why 911 protocol must provide the gun in a holster info,to eliminate any stop that is wastefull,as far as time and resources and will eliminate any undue anxiety for the LEO's! They have more important things to do!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy05 View Post
    if you ARE BEING DETAINED you will know it and not need to ask. JUST WALK AWAY. If he runs up to you and stands in your way, then you are being detained. If you try to walk away and he gets in your way or physically stops you, well you know!


    If your at a park and not doing anything wrong, and you are a hardcore wash rinse repeat, why are you even making contact. Just ignore the LEO! The LEO will either detain you or watch you leave.

    i would not "JUST WALK AWAY" because i would not want a resisting arrest charge or worse. at this point i only feel comfortable asking if i am being detained. i feel it is the safest legal way to deal with a police officer.

  22. #22
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Those of you who live in either Kent or Ottawa County and want to listen to the scanner frequencies for both counties, go here:

    http://www.scanmichigan.com/scanner/
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

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    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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