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Jefferson County

Shorin21

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Messages
58
Location
Somewhere in the boonies
Anyone know of any future plans/or needs help with future plans of an oc event in the Jefferson County area. Whitewater, Fort Atkinson, Palmyra, Watertown?????

Any thoughts?
 

Shotgun

Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Joined
Aug 23, 2006
Messages
2,668
Location
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Fort Atkinson would be an interesting place. Two years ago the Chief of Police wrote to an OCDO member:

"Our stance on the disorderly conduct statute has not changed, and I will again attempt to outline our understanding of the law.

After receiving your second letter, I discussed it with Jefferson County District Attorney David Wambach. District Attorney Wambach echoed my interpretation of the disorderly conduct statute and even shared with me the fact the statute does not require an actual complaint, only that the conduct tends to cause a disturbance.

947.01 ANNOT

Disorderly conduct does not necessarily require disruptions that implicate the public directly. This section encompasses conduct that tends to cause a disturbance or disruption that is personal or private in nature, as long as there exists the real possibility that the disturbance or disruption will spill over and disrupt the peace, order, or safety of the surrounding community as well.

With the above in mind, I again remind you that an arrest for disorderly conduct would be likely if a person were to go armed with a firearm."


I then exchanged a couple of letters with the Jefferson County District Attorney and he completely concurred with the chief's stance. There's a new DA there now, but Chief Brus is still in Ft. Atkinson. It would be very interesting to see whether his opinion on open carry has changed over the course of the past two years.
 

Doug Huffman

Banned
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
9,180
Location
Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin,
State Disorderly Conduct and weapons enhancement of penalty.

It is interesting and perhaps significant that he did not refer to the local ordinance that seems quite specific when compared to the Statute. Remember, too, that there is a state weapons enhancer available. After review, I've highlighted in red what I think is the arguable point in an extra-legal charge of DC w/ weapon. Notice the implicit definition of a felony.
Ft. Atkinson Ord. said:
§ Sec. 58-73. Disorderly conduct.
No person shall within the limits of the city commit any of the following offenses:
(1) Engage in violent, abusive, indecent, profane, boisterous, unreasonably loud or otherwise disorderly conduct in a public or private place under the circumstances where such conduct tends to cause or provoke a disturbance or tends to reasonably disturb or annoy any other person.
(2) Make a telephone call, whether or not the telephone conversation ensues, with intent to annoy another.
(3) Operate a motor vehicle so as to cause the tires thereof to squeal, the horn to blow excessively, the motor to race excessively, or by emitting unnecessary and loud muffler noises.
(4) Engage in any fight, brawl or altercation on any street, alley or other public or private ground.
(5) Prowl about the premises of another in the nighttime, or peek in windows on another's premises, or do any other act intended, or naturally tending, to frighten or alarm other persons.
(6) Give or send or cause to be given or sent in any manner an alarm of fire that he/she knows to be false.
(7) Without reasonable excuse or justification, resist or in any way interfere with any officer of the city while such officer is doing any act in his/her official capacity with lawful authority.
(8) Intentionally aid any prisoner or person to escape from the lawful custody of a police officer or peace officer of the city.
(9) Impersonate a police officer or peace officer within the city.
(10) Be in any public place within the city in such a state of intoxication as to disturb others or the safety of others.
(Code 1969, § 17.01(A)--(C), (E)--(K))
Wisc. Stats. said:
§ 947.01 Disorderly conduct.
Whoever, in a public or private place, engages in violent, abusive, indecent, profane, boisterous, unreasonably loud or otherwise disorderly conduct under circumstances in which the conduct tends to cause or provoke a disturbance is guilty of a Class B misdemeanor.
History: 1977 c. 173; 1979 c. 131.

The defendant was properly convicted of disorderly conduct when he appeared on a stage wearing a minimum of clothing intending to and succeeding in causing a loud reaction in the audience. State v. Maker, 48 Wis. 2d 612, 180 N.W.2d 707 (1970).

An attorney was properly convicted under this section for refusing to leave a ward in a mental hospital until he had seen a client after having made statements in the presence of patients that caused some to become agitated. State v. Elson, 60 Wis. 2d 54, 208 N.W.2d 363 (1973).

It was not disorderly conduct for 4 people to enter an office with other members of the public for the purpose of protesting the draft and to refuse to leave on orders of the police when their conduct was not otherwise disturbing. State v. Werstein, 60 Wis. 2d 668, 211 N.W.2d 437 (1973).

This statute does not require a victim, but when the disorderly conduct is directed at a person, that person is the victim for the purpose of prosecuting the perpetrator for intimidating a victim under s. 940.44. State v. Vinje, 201 Wis. 2d 98, 548 N.W.2d 118 (Ct. App. 1996), 95−1484.

A “true threat” is a statement that a speaker would reasonably foresee that a listener would reasonably interpret as a serious expression of a purpose to inflict harm, as distinguished from hyperbole, jest, innocuous talk, expressions of political views, or other similarly protected speech. It is not necessary that the speaker have the ability to carry out the threat. State v. Perkins, 2001 WI 46, 243 Wis. 2d 141, 626 N.W.2d 762, 99−1924.

Purely written speech, even written speech that fails to cause an actual disturbance, can constitute disorderly conduct, but the state has the burden to prove that the speech is constitutionally unprotected “abusive” conduct. “Abusive” conduct is conduct that is injurious, improper, hurtful, offensive, or reproachful. “True threats” clearly fall
within the scope of this definition. State v. Douglas D. 2001 WI 47, 243 Wis. 2d 204, 626 N.W.2d 725, 99−1767.

Application of the disorderly conduct statute to speech alone is permissible under appropriate circumstances. When speech is not an essential part of any exposition of ideas, when it is utterly devoid of social value, and when it can cause or provoke a disturbance, the disorderly conduct statute can be applicable. State v. A.S. 2001 WI 48, 243 Wis. 2d 173, 626 N.W.2d 712, 99−2317.

Disorderly conduct does not necessarily require disruptions that implicate the public directly. This section encompasses conduct that tends to cause a disturbance or disruption that is personal or private in nature, as long as there exists the real possibility that the disturbance or disruption will spill over and disrupt the peace, order, or safety of the surrounding community as well. Sending repeated, unwelcome, and anonymous mailings was otherwise disorderly conduct.” State v. Schwebke, 2002 WI 55, 253 Wis. 2d 1, 644 N.W.2d 666, 99−3204.

Defiance of a police officer’s order to move is itself disorderly conduct if the order is lawful. Bruan v. Baldwin, 346 F.3d 761 (2003).
Wisc. Stats. said:
§ 939.63 Penalties; use of a dangerous weapon.
(1) If a person commits a crime while possessing, using or threatening to use a dangerous weapon, the maximum term of imprisonment prescribed by law for that crime may be increased as follows:
(a) The maximum term of imprisonment for a misdemeanor may be increased by not more than 6 months.
[ ... ]
(2) The increased penalty provided in this section does not apply if possessing, using or threatening to use a dangerous weapon is an essential element of the crime charged.

(3) This section applies only to crimes specified under chs.939 to 951 and 961.
History: 1979 c. 114; 1981 c. 212; 1987 a. 332 s. 64; 1995 a. 448; 2001 a. 109.

The fact that the maximum term for a misdemeanor may exceed one year under sub. (1) (a) 1. does not upgrade the crime to felony status. State v. Denter, 121 Wis.2d 118, 357 N.W.2d 555 (1984).

Possession encompasses both actual and constructive possession. To prove a violation of this section, the state must prove that the defendant possessed the weapon to facilitate the predicate offense. State v. Peete, 185 Wis. 2d 255, 517 N.W.2d 149 (1994). See also State v. Howard, 211 Wis. 2d 269, 564 N.W.2d 753 (1997), 95−0770.

An automobile may constitute a dangerous weapon under s. 939.22 (10). State v.Bidwell, 200 Wis. 2d 200, 546 N.W.2d 507 (Ct. App. 1996).

Under Peete, there is sufficient evidence of possession if the evidence allows a reasonable jury to find beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant possessed a dangerous weapon in order to use it or threaten to use it, even if the defendant did not use or threaten to use it in the commission of the crime. State v. Page, 2000 WI App 267,
240 Wis. 2d 276, 622 N.W.2d 285, 99−2015.

When two penalty enhancers are applicable to the same crime, the length of the second penalty enhancer is based on the maximum term for the base crime as extended by the first penalty enhancer. State v. Quiroz, 2002 WI App 52, 251 Wis. 2d 245, 641 N.W.2d 715, 01−1549.
 
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Doug Huffman

Banned
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
9,180
Location
Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin,
"Facilitate the predicate offense."

The predicate offense being disorderly conduct, the State must prove that the weapon was taken up to make the commission of the conduct found disorderly easier.

Seems a weak link I-ANAL, a coward, a "rectum", a troll or a sockpuppet (to cataqlog the various vulgarly used disparaging epithets).
 

bnhcomputing

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2007
Messages
1,709
Location
Wisconsin, USA
Anyone know of any future plans/or needs help with future plans of an oc event in the Jefferson County area. Whitewater, Fort Atkinson, Palmyra, Watertown?????

Any thoughts?

I agree with shotgun, I think Fort Atkinson would be great.

If you can find a Culvers or Starbucks, please PM me contact info for them. October 24 might work, let us know your thoughts Shorin21.
 

Spartacus

Banned
Joined
Dec 13, 2009
Messages
1,185
Location
La Crosse, Wisconsin, USA
There was a guy at the meet-up Sunday in Delavan who was from Palmyra and was nervous about ocing there... something to do with threats from the local PD; I forget exactly, so yes it would be a good area to get into.
 

Shorin21

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Messages
58
Location
Somewhere in the boonies
There was a guy at the meet-up Sunday in Delavan who was from Palmyra and was nervous about ocing there... something to do with threats from the local PD; I forget exactly, so yes it would be a good area to get into.

That was me.there wasnt any threats from the PD. From what they told me that you couldnt oc is what made me nervous, and the fact that i didnt want to be harrassed..
 

Shotgun

Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Joined
Aug 23, 2006
Messages
2,668
Location
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
That was me.there wasnt any threats from the PD. From what they told me that you couldnt oc is what made me nervous, and the fact that i didnt want to be harrassed..

Palmyra does have a preempted ordinance on the books:

9.02 DISCHARGING AND CARRYING FIREARMS AND GUNS PROHIBITED.

(1) No person, except a sheriff, constable, police officer or their deputies, shall fire or discharge any firearm, rifle, spring or air gun within the Village or have any firearm, rifle, spring or air gun in his possession or under his control unless it is unloaded and knocked down or enclosed within a carrying case or other suitable container.
 

Doug Huffman

Banned
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
9,180
Location
Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin,
Well said. Preempted but locally enforceable.

Palmyra does have a preempted ordinance on the books:

9.02 DISCHARGING AND CARRYING FIREARMS AND GUNS PROHIBITED.

(1) No person, except a sheriff, constable, police officer or their deputies, shall fire or discharge any firearm, rifle, spring or air gun within the Village or have any firearm, rifle, spring or air gun in his possession or under his control unless it is unloaded and knocked down or enclosed within a carrying case or other suitable container.
Well said. Preempted but locally enforceable.
 

Wisconsin Carry Inc. - Chairman

Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
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Jan 23, 2010
Messages
1,197
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, ,
That was me.there wasnt any threats from the PD. From what they told me that you couldnt oc is what made me nervous, and the fact that i didnt want to be harrassed..

Just to be clear, the ordinance Auric posted is pre-empted by state law. Meaning Palmyra cannot enforce it.

As you can imagine, we have people all over the state that would like an event in their town.

What we encourage is that people who desire to have an event in their area organize/plan that event or get-together and let us know about it and we can make membership aware of it.

Palmyra would be acting outside of the law if they arrested you or cited you for violation of their ordinance. They would be facing legal repercussions.

As we discussed on Sunday I am going to write a letter and fire it off to Palmyra, putting them on notice that their ordinance is pre-empted and enforcing it is illegal. its just been a very busy week and I haven't had time yet.

Having said that, even after I send that letter, NO ONE can promise you that every officer in the state will act within the law. Officers acting outside of their authority are pretty rare, but it does happen.

There will always come a point where have to make a personal choice to either be a free person and exercise the right you know you are legally entitled to, or live in fear.

I would never ask someone to do that which I was unwilling to do myself, and I can assure you if I was in, or find myself near Palmyra, I'll holster up and walk down main street open-carrying without concern for the police. (assuming main street isn't in a school zone)
 

J.Gleason

Banned
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
3,481
Location
Chilton, Wisconsin, USA
Doug, this is a prime example of what I believe is a disservice to members on this forum.

You mislead people.

Palmyra would be breaking the law by enforcing a pre-empted ordinance.

Well, the police can technically enforce the ordinance, most probably wouldn't. However that doesn't mean you may not run into some over zealous new cop that thinks he has a big bust going on.
More than likely he will write you an ordinance violation and expect that you will just pay the fine. But anyone who knows anything about OC will fight that citation in court and more than likely win. Should it go to a higher court, the defendant will win big! Unless they turn the other cheek.
 

Doug Huffman

Banned
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
9,180
Location
Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin,
The local ordinance is just as clear as is the preemption statute.

Doug, this is a prime example of what I believe is a disservice to members on this forum. You mislead people. Palmyra would be breaking the law by enforcing a pre-empted ordinance.
The law is clear to me. Palmyra's ordinance is clear. The preemption statute is just as clear, that only grandfathered ordinances more stringent than statutes are without "legal effect and the political subdivision may not enforce the ordinance or resolution on or after November 18, 1995."

We don't want the naive to presume wrongly. You presume wrongly some acquaintance, that I am addressed so familiarly.
 
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paul@paul-fisher.com

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May 24, 2009
Messages
4,049
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Chandler, AZ
I'm in for Culvers. There is no Starbucks anywhere near Fort Atkinson. 10/24 sounds good to me!

shorin21 let us know if that fits with you and you'll have some company.
 

Shotgun

Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Joined
Aug 23, 2006
Messages
2,668
Location
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
A quick look at a map of Palmyra indicates that there is a high school and a middle school near one another. Palmyra is small, so much of the western half of the village is within a school zone. Not sure if there are any private schools.

Whatever your opinion of the local ordinance, for the time being the GFSZ is enforceable so proceed with caution.
 
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