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Thread: Are Police Officers more likely to use Deadly Force in the wake of last year's events

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Are Police Officers more likely to use Deadly Force in the wake of last year's events

    In the wake of last years police killings, the 4 in Lakewood, one in rural Pierce County, and one in Seattle (forgive me if I overlooked others in WA), are Police officers more likely to use Deadly Force when encountering armed subjects. More recent cases involved a man with a gun in Spokane Valley and a man with a knife in Seattle. Police shoot into vehicles, killing drivers/occupants. There appear to be more stories in the last 6 months were Deadly Force was used by police officers and I was just wondering if this was a result of the losses to their ranks.

    Did the shootings of their fellow officers have the effect of making them more "on edge" and less likely to attempt de-escalation before shooting? I certainly don't know but recognize that it could be a factor.

    On this note there may well be an important message here for those of us that go about our business armed. One that would tell us it could be a very bad idea to allow any contact with a LEO to become a confrontation. We all are irritated over being "disarmed" during a contact and it may well be beyond the officer's authority. But is it a good idea to resist, even verbally? Gather info and deal with them through their superiors.

    Just some food for thought because to me, it is apparent that any threat, by anyone, will more likely be met by Deadly Force than in the past. Either that or the recent news is just an anomaly. We all sort of cheer when one of society's "pieces of excrement" are sent off to another world. We don't need it to happen to any law-abiding citizens just because they didn't exercise good judgement.

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    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
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    That's an interesting question.

    I wonder where one could get statistics regarding police shootings to compare the relative frequency.

    Your point is well taken. It behooves us all to remain calm during a LEO contact, while at the same time not forfeiting our rights.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    It's a worse idea not to "resist".
    Bending over for violation of 4th amendments will only encourage and reinforce that type of behavior.
    Standing up for our rights won't always be easy.
    I wonder if Rosa Parks felt this way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    In the wake of last years police killings, the 4 in Lakewood, one in rural Pierce County, and one in Seattle (forgive me if I overlooked others in WA), are Police officers more likely to use Deadly Force when encountering armed subjects. More recent cases involved a man with a gun in Spokane Valley and a man with a knife in Seattle. Police shoot into vehicles, killing drivers/occupants. There appear to be more stories in the last 6 months were Deadly Force was used by police officers and I was just wondering if this was a result of the losses to their ranks.

    Did the shootings of their fellow officers have the effect of making them more "on edge" and less likely to attempt de-escalation before shooting? I certainly don't know but recognize that it could be a factor.

    On this note there may well be an important message here for those of us that go about our business armed. One that would tell us it could be a very bad idea to allow any contact with a LEO to become a confrontation. We all are irritated over being "disarmed" during a contact and it may well be beyond the officer's authority. But is it a good idea to resist, even verbally? Gather info and deal with them through their superiors.

    Just some food for thought because to me, it is apparent that any threat, by anyone, will more likely be met by Deadly Force than in the past. Either that or the recent news is just an anomaly. We all sort of cheer when one of society's "pieces of excrement" are sent off to another world. We don't need it to happen to any law-abiding citizens just because they didn't exercise good judgement.
    I would say yes

    3 police officers, 3 dead suspects, all in 48 hours

    Seattle Police Chief John Diaz speaks at a press conference after a Seattle Police officer shot a man on Monday. (KIRO Radio/Tim Haeck)


    Related Links:

    Are officers more willing to use deadly force now?

    Dori Monson: SPD shooting - this one doesn't feel right

    Seattle Police Chief wants more answers in fatal shooting

    Federal Way police fatally wound man

    Man tasered by Pierce Co. deputy dies


    By CHRIS SULLIVAN
    KIRO Radio
    Major crimes teams around Puget Sound are going to be busy for the next few weeks. Police officers in Seattle and Federal Way shot and killed two suspects this week, and a Pierce County man died after being tasered by a deputy in Spanaway.

    The most recent incident occurred Tuesday night near Wild Waves in Federal Way where an officer trailing a suspected car thief opened fire when the man tried to run the officer over with a pickup. "There was no talk of a weapon," Kathy Schrock of Federwal Way Police told KIRO Radio. "The truck was the weapon."

    There are still plenty of unanswered questions in Monday afternoon's shooting in downtown Seattle. Authorities report 27-year-old officer Ian Birk shot and killed homeless artist John Williams.

    50-year-old Williams was a well known and quite accomplished Native American carver. "When he was on, he carved some pretty incredible things for us," Andy James of Ye Olde Curiosity shop told the Ron and Don Show. "He did have a drinking problem," James said. "That was so sad because he had so much talent."

    Seattle Police are still looking for people who witnessed the shooting at Boren and Howell about 4:15pm Monday. Some witnesses told police that Williams didn't even turn to face Officer Birk before he fired.

    The Medical Examiner in Pierce County still hasn't released what killed the 27-year-old man that was tasered by a deputy after break-in Tuesday morning. He stopped breathing after being restrained by four deputies.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    It's a worse idea not to "resist".
    Bending over for violation of 4th amendments will only encourage and reinforce that type of behavior.
    Standing up for our rights won't always be easy.
    I wonder if Rosa Parks felt this way.
    But how do you accomplish anything if you end up dead?

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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    But how do you accomplish anything if you end up dead?
    Well, here's what you do:

    You stumble upon a tribe of friendly natives, who give you a skull-shaped ring. Hide in a lair until you father a son, and train him in your ways. Then, carry your gun around until there is a confrontation with a police officer and resist his illegal disarmament and search. Get shot, and called a "violent man with a gun" by the news media. Let your son dress as you do, and repeat the process down the generations.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antispam540 View Post
    Well, here's what you do:

    You stumble upon a tribe of friendly natives, who give you a skull-shaped ring. Hide in a lair until you father a son, and train him in your ways. Then, carry your gun around until there is a confrontation with a police officer and resist his illegal disarmament and search. Get shot, and called a "violent man with a gun" by the news media. Let your son dress as you do, and repeat the process down the generations.
    Are you implying that one who ends up dead should be reincarnated as Christofer Monfort?

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    But how do you accomplish anything if you end up dead?
    You stated to resist "even verbally". I already have done this and I'm not dead.
    There is a point were you comply to save your life (I did this too) and then go and try to make sure such officers in illegal detentions loose their jobs. We don't need public officials who run around armed and can't control their personal emotions.

    ....but if you willingly comply to an officers orders without even attempting to stop his actions, just because he doesn't like the fact you are carrying a gun....than you are part of the problem, you encourage/enable bad behavior.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    You stated to resist "even verbally". I already have done this and I'm not dead.
    If you had encountered the same Seattle Police Officer that John Williams you might not be so lucky. By witness accounts he was posing no threat and refused to put down the folding knfe that he was merely carving a piece of wood with. It would appear that he was resisting in the same manner you describe for yourself.

  10. #10
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    If you had encountered the same Seattle Police Officer that John Williams you might not be so lucky. By witness accounts he was posing no threat and refused to put down the folding knfe that he was merely carving a piece of wood with. It would appear that he was resisting in the same manner you describe for yourself.
    .......so give up your rights cuz a rogue cop got outta hand?......nope won't do.

  11. #11
    Regular Member gsx1138's Avatar
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    So if the officer had no RAS to stop this man in the first place does that play into whether he gets into trouble? I mean, let's say the guy with the knife 'seemed' threatening after the officer tried to stop him. If the officer didn't have a right to stop him in the first place will he get into trouble? Or do they just say, "the shooting was justified" and not even look at what led to the shooting?


    I will always verbally refuse to be searched or disarmed.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
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    And now another "officer-involved shooting" this morning in Vancouver.

    http://tinyurl.com/27uumjw

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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Military Attack

    "It was insanely loud," Selby said. "I thought we were under military attack."
    Just wondering how this person knows what a military attack sounds like?
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
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  14. #14
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    "It was insanely loud," Selby said. "I thought we were under military attack."
    Just wondering how this person knows what a military attack sounds like?
    Most likely does. Plays "Halo", watches War Movies in HD with his home theater cranked, and probably even plays paintball with an iPod at max volume, with a war movie soundtrack playing.

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