Ft. Myer/Henderson Hall/Arlington Nat'l Cemetery

Attending a funeral at Ft. Myer chapel Friday. Pretty certain I can't OC or CC there, but I can't find any info on their site. Really don't want to be disarmed all day and evening just to attend. Need to know my options. Unlocked/cased/locked in trunk OK?? Leave it with someone at the gate? Find a babysitter in the area? Tried to search the issue here and got almost nothing. Any help would be appreciated.

I'm stationed just down the road on Ft Belvoir. From my experience in general FIrearms are not permitted on most posts. I may be wrong about Ft Myer but i know its strictly prohibited on Ft Belvoir unless you happen to live in family housing on post. Even then you cannot carry you can only transport on and off post to go to the range and you have to get your Commander to sign off on a sheet allowing you to register it with the MP's. Fort Drum and Fort Gordon were the exact same way.

i called several months back because i was attending a funeral at the chapel.

no firearms.

Not only no firearms, but no ammo. Be sure to clean out the transport, just in case they find a reason to pull you over for an inspection. Odds are slim that they will, but why take the chance?

stay safe.

skidmark said:

Not only no firearms, but no ammo. Be sure to clean out the transport, just in case they find a reason to pull you over for an inspection. Odds are slim that they will, but why take the chance?

stay safe.

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Ah, good to know. I think I have some target ammo in my spare tire well. Never know when you might get time for a range date. May be a spare 1911 mag in the armrest as well. Guess I know what I'll be doing tomorrow morning! Too bad I can't park off base and walk on. Like I said, I really hate to be unarmed all day just to spend 30 minutes there.

Arlington Cemetery is a bit big to just walk to where you're going. They also won't let you just take a stroll around the place without a pass. Families of "residents" are issued passes to visit gravesites.

You've already gotten the answer about carrying on military bases. The same holds true at VA hospitals, VA cemeteries and National cemeteries.

I've walked the grounds there for hours. Always enjoy it. I have a pass that allows me to drive right in and visit my people without having to park in the visitor lot, but I've always enjoyed the peaceful walk. I had no real intention of walking the whole time I was there yesterday, but would have gladly walked from the gate to the chapel if I could have secured my firearm in the trunk of my car and left it just off base. I could have ridden with others in the procession to the gravesite after the service. Just visiting the family I have there is a pretty good tour of the place.

Like I said in the original post, I knew that carry of any veriety wasn't allowed. Just hoped that a storage option would have been OK.

I don't carry in Arlington, not because I havn't read anything that shows it illegal, but only because it is the general consensis that it is, and I don't want to be a test case. However I have yet to see it in wrighting or any signs posted on any of the buildings. If someone has come across a cite please post.

kennys said:

I don't carry in Arlington, not because I havn't read anything that shows it illegal, but only because it is the general consensis that it is, and I don't want to be a test case. However I have yet to see it in wrighting or any signs posted on any of the buildings. If someone has come across a cite please post.

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http://www.cem.va.gov/cems/arlington.asp "Although Arlington National Cemetery is a national cemetery, it is one of two cemeteries maintained by the Department of the Army, not the Department of Veterans Affairs National Cemetery Administration.
We cannot answer your questions or comments about the national cemeteries under the Army’s jurisdiction."

http://www.ehow.com/list_6770093_military-base-firearm-laws.html "
Non-Military Personnel
•The rules on non-military personnel having firearms on base on clear: They are never allowed. No civilian entering a base is allowed to have a firearm of any kind either on their person or in their vehicle. It doesn't matter if the person has a permit to carry a concealed weapon in that state; only military personnel are allowed to carry firearms on a military base. There are no exceptions to this rule, and civilians who come onto base with a firearm can end up facing serious jail time."

http://www.quanticoshootingclub.com/qsc.php?view=transport "The law involving carrying a firearm or weapon onto federal property is specific and clear. Possession of Firearms and Dangerous Weapons in federal facilities, buildings, or Installations is illegal and is in violation of Section 930, Title 18, United States Code. Law Enforcement personnel, when entering federal facilities, buildings and/or installations must identify themselves prior to entry if armed. Military reserve personnel whose civilian profession require the carrying of a weapon, openly or concealed, are not authorized to carry or bring their duty weapon on a federal installation, into a federal building, or facility. Full time civilian police officers performing drill, annual training, or while in support of an operation, may not bring their duty weapon, open or concealed, onto a federal installation, into a federal building, or facility. Unless the carrying of a concealed weapon is in support of a federal mission, or so directed, weapons will not be brought onto a federal installation, into a federal building or facility."

http://www.militarytimes.com/forum/showthread.php?1585852-Lift-the-Gun-Ban-on-Military-Bases

http://www.bayoushooter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=969

And so on, and so on, etc. This is one of those things that is so well covered that folks just stopped adding citations as they probably felt it was becoming redundant.

stay safe.

PaulX608 said:

Like I said in the original post, I knew that carry of any veriety wasn't allowed. Just hoped that a storage option would have been OK.

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I would also like to find a suitable storage option when I visit NoVa or go into the belly of the beast across the river. I have a lockable storage space in the back of my stationwagon where the spare tire is located. In the past, I have locked my weapon and ammo in there when I drove into DC. I still don't have a warm fuzzy about doing this and wonder if there is a suitable alternative. It would be really cool if there were lockers at Metro stations in Virginia that were under constant human surveilance, but you would still be hesitant to leave valuables there while you were in DC. I know a few well-meaning OCDO members have offered to babysit ordnance, too.

What do do?

There's a lot of bad info out there.

skidmark said:

http://www.ehow.com/list_6770093_military-base-firearm-laws.html "
Non-Military Personnel
•The rules on non-military personnel having firearms on base on clear: They are never allowed. No civilian entering a base is allowed to have a firearm of any kind either on their person or in their vehicle. It doesn't matter if the person has a permit to carry a concealed weapon in that state; only military personnel are allowed to carry firearms on a military base. There are no exceptions to this rule, and civilians who come onto base with a firearm can end up facing serious jail time."

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This source is flat out wrong. Non-military personnel are often allowed to have firearms on base/post. I've done it many times. Many installations have ranges and/or hunting; regulations for bringing your gun onto the installation is always well-defined, but differ for each installation.

skidmark said:

http://www.quanticoshootingclub.com/qsc.php?view=transport "The law involving carrying a firearm or weapon onto federal property is specific and clear. Possession of Firearms and Dangerous Weapons in federal facilities, buildings, or Installations is illegal and is in violation of Section 930, Title 18, United States Code.

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This source is also flat out wrong. The referenced code (USC18s930) addresses facilities, which are defined as buildings. It does not address installations at all, that is, the federal property in general. Furthermore, I've had personal firearms in federal facilities and been in full compliance with USC18s930.

Bottom line, find out the law and installation regulations that apply to your particular situation.

Seldom can we do all we'd like to do. Often we can't do much at all. However, the tales of complete prohibition are not accurate.

If you spend a few hours going over USC and CFR you will find a whole lot of nothing prohibiting civilians and OC/CC weapons.
In fact only 2 bases are named in the USC as having a ban on firearms that would include jail time.
The rest of the bases just use the "Command policy" which I am wondering how to fight.

DrMark -

You are right - we do what we can.

And yes, there are exceptions to every rule, and rules that govern every exception.

The problem is that there is absolutely no consistency from one military installation to another, and most times no way to access "the final word" on the rules and exceptions for a specific installation until after you get there in person and play several rounds of "20 Questions" with the PIO, Provost Marshal, MPs, and the commanding officer. For me, the example of that is Quantico MCB and the variations for generally vistying the base, going to the Quantico Shooting Club, and merely transiting the base to go to the Town of Quantico - three (3) sets of rules that bear almost no relationship to each other.

Since there is almost no chance of the .gov, the .mil and the DoD ever getting together and agreeing on a single set of rules (and I'm not sure I want them to) we need to look for a repository of the rules for each location. And to do that we need folks to do the scut work of obtaining the best, verified, information possible.

stay safe.

The funniest thing I've read in a while: Someone trying to get a base CO's orders changed. The most powerful legal entity in the U.S. is the CO of a ship. Naval, Coast Guard, company, or privately owned; the Commanding Officer (or Master in civilian parlance) of a vessel at sea has an amazing amount of power. The SECOND most powerful entity is the CO of a military BASE. He is PERSONALLY responsible for the safety and security of his installation and everything on it, 24/7. Every once in a while, you read about the CO of a base or ship "stepping on their sword" and being relieved of duty. They can be "removed from office" by higher authority, but while they are the "Big Cheese", their word is literally "Law". When there is a Change of Command (CoC), part of the ceremony includes discussion about Standing Orders. Everyone takes this statement for granted when they hear it, but it actually means a great deal:
"All Standing Orders remain in effect."

After the new CO gets settled it, he goes over the standing orders and decided which ones he (or she) wants to change and does it. Most changes are minor and reflect the new CO's pet peeves or special projects they have in mind to make the base more aesthetically pleasing (in their eyes).

You're more likely to get what you want with honey than you are with vinegar. try to get an appointment with the base XO to discuss a change in the base SO's or getting a letter authorizing you to transport (not OC or CC) weapons and ammunition (separately) on and off base. Good luck with this...

skidmark said:

DrMark -

You are right - we do what we can.

And yes, there are exceptions to every rule, and rules that govern every exception.

The problem is that there is absolutely no consistency from one military installation to another, and most times no way to access "the final word" on the rules and exceptions for a specific installation until after you get there in person and play several rounds of "20 Questions" with the PIO, Provost Marshal, MPs, and the commanding officer. For me, the example of that is Quantico MCB and the variations for generally vistying the base, going to the Quantico Shooting Club, and merely transiting the base to go to the Town of Quantico - three (3) sets of rules that bear almost no relationship to each other.

Since there is almost no chance of the .gov, the .mil and the DoD ever getting together and agreeing on a single set of rules (and I'm not sure I want them to) we need to look for a repository of the rules for each location. And to do that we need folks to do the scut work of obtaining the best, verified, information possible.

stay safe.

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To Skidmark:

I think we're in full agreement. BTW, if my earlier post came accross as critical of you, that was not my intent, and I apologize.

To all:

Skidmark pointed out the vast array of inconsistent information out there, and my frustration with some of this information is what drove my earlier post. Many of these internet sources play loose with the word or contain errors, and I believe they are often the result of intentional spin by installation security... weighing what they want more heavily than what is completely accurate. If we believe blanket possesion of any firearm is forbidden on the property, without exception, their job is easier. That blanket prohibition on possession is often not the case.

There's another beef I have with some of the internet sources... Because we're generally not authorized to carry a holstered pistol on federal property, many of these sources twist a lack of authority to carry into a blanket prohibition on possession on all on federal property. I've possessed and used personally-owned guns on installations and in buildings (facilities) at military and other FedGov installations... all legally. I've never carried a loaded handgun in a holster for self-defense in those places, but I think we'd all like that option some day.