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Thread: 18-21 years old, what can you do?

  1. #1
    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    18-21 years old, what can you do?

    RCW 9.41.240 lists in what places or conditions someone between 18 and 21 can carry or use a pistol. The exceptions in 042 seem to apply to children, but doesn't explicitly refer to those over 18. 9.41.050 3(a) states:

    (3)(a) A person at least eighteen years of age who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle

    This seems to imply that someone over 18 but not 21 can carry in a vehicle as long as it is unloaded. Based on the language of 240, 050, and 060 -- someone over 18 can carry a weapon if it is unloaded and in a case as long as they are going to a place where that weapon can be possessed? For reference:

    RCW 9.41.060:

    (8) Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area;

    (9) Any person while carrying a pistol unloaded and in a closed opaque case or secure wrapper;

    RCW 9.41.240:
    Unless an exception under RCW 9.41.042, 9.41.050, or 9.41.060 applies, a person at least eighteen years of age, but less than twenty-one years of age, may possess a pistol only:

    (1) In the person's place of abode;

    (2) At the person's fixed place of business; or

    (3) On real property under his or her control

  2. #2
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Alot!!!

    18 to 21 yr olds can use 9.41.240, at home
    9.41.060 (6), for target practice, and going and coming from
    9.41.060 (8), for out door activities, and going to and coming from
    the law is not specific, but one could deduce that it allows OC or CC!
    Last edited by 1245A Defender; 09-02-2010 at 06:50 AM.
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  3. #3
    Regular Member OrangeIsTrouble's Avatar
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    whoooooooooooooaaaaa
    Last edited by OrangeIsTrouble; 09-02-2010 at 03:56 PM.


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  4. #4
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    Even though federal law prohibits gun dealers from selling you a handgun until you are 21 there is no law prohibiting anyone from owning or possessing a handgun at the age of 18 and in Washington State it is perfectly legal to do so. There are some restrictions for those possessing handgun between the age of 18-21, but there are also broad exemptions. Washington State follows British legal tradition, which states that anything that is not proscribed as unlawful is lawful.

    RCW 9.41.240
    Unless an exception under RCW 9.41.042, 9.41.050, or 9.41.060 applies, a person at least eighteen years of age, but less than twenty-one years of age, may possess a pistol only:
    (1) In the person's place of abode;
    (2) At the person's fixed place of business; or
    (3) On real property under his or her control.

    Subsection 1 states that the person would be able to possess the pistol in "the person's place of abode" with would include his apartment.
    Now, how would 18 yr old go about practicing with their firearm... transporting, etc?

    The above RCW reference states a number of exclusions that can occur that would otherwise allow a person 18-20 to possess a pistol, and the first reference is RCW 9.41.042 which mentions permissible possession of firearms by children. By notating this in the above RCW as an exception that means that the instances where a person under 18 could possess would be the same (obviously) as a person 18-20. These conditions are:

    RCW 9.41.042
    RCW 9.41.040(2)(a)(iii) shall not apply to any person under the age of eighteen years who is:
    (1) In attendance at a hunter's safety course or a firearms safety course;
    (2) Engaging in practice in the use of a firearm or target shooting at an established range authorized by the governing body of the jurisdiction in which such range is located or any other area where the discharge of a firearm is not prohibited;
    (3) Engaging in an organized competition involving the use of a firearm, or participating in or practicing for a performance by an organized group that uses firearms as a part of the performance;
    (4) Hunting or trapping under a valid license issued to the person under Title 77 RCW;
    (5) In an area where the discharge of a firearm is permitted, is not trespassing, and the person either: (a) Is at least fourteen years of age, has been issued a hunter safety certificate, and is using a lawful firearm other than a pistol; or (b) is under the supervision of a parent, guardian, or other adult approved for the purpose by the parent or guardian;
    (6) Traveling with any unloaded firearm in the person's possession to or from any activity described in subsection (1), (2), (3), (4), or (5) of this section;

    So, in short, in you are target shooting at an approved range (indoor or outdoor, where legal) there is a blanket exception for restricting possession.

    In RCW 9.41.050 indicates that a person cannot have a concealed weapon on them without a valid concealed pistol license, and spells out the method of having a pistol in a vehicle for transporting. Subsection (3)(a) states "A person at least eighteen years of age who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle." Which means that a person 18-20 can transport/possess a pistol in their vehicle so long as they abide by the above conditions. The final exception that is stated in the original RCW is 9.41.060 which is entitled "Exceptions to Restrictions on carrying firearm." This section basically states the instances where a CPL is not necessary to be in possession of a firearm. The applicable subsections in this RCW are:

    The provisions of RCW 9.41.050 shall not apply to:
    (6) Regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of target shooting, when those members are at or are going to or from their places of target practice;
    (7) Regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of modern and antique firearm collecting, when those members are at or are going to or from their collector's gun shows and exhibits;
    (8) Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area;
    (9) Any person while carrying a pistol unloaded and in a closed opaque case or secure wrapper; or

    To cover the sale portion of the issue, the applicable RCW here is very short and concise and sets forth the "delivery" of a firearm.

    RCW 9.41.080
    Delivery to ineligible persons
    No person may deliver a firearm to any person whom he or she has reasonable cause to believe is ineligible under RCW 9.41.040 to possess a firearm. Any person violating this section is guilty of a class C felony, punishable under chapter 9A.20 RCW.
    The only age-related restriction stated in RCW 9.41.040 is subsection (2)(a)(iii) which states: If the person is under eighteen years of age
    This is the place where, were it illegal to deliver (sell or otherwise) a pistol to someone under 21, would be spelled out. Pistol delivery is not differentiated from long-gun delivery at all in this section. So, as it is not specifically illegal, the assumption of freedom means that it is legal.

    While an FFL is prohibited by federal law to complete a transfer of a handgun to persons under 21, private citizens are under no such mandate. So long as the 18-20yr old is not ineligible to possess because of criminal history, they can legally own & possess a handgun, but there are stricter laws with regards to where & how.

    Title 18 USC 922
    Unlawful Acts, see subsection X

    (1) It shall be unlawful for a person to sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer to a person who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is a juvenile:
    (A) a handgun;or
    (B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.
    (2) It shall be unlawful for any person who is a juvenile to knowingly possess:
    (A) a handgun;or
    (B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.
    (3) This subsection does not apply to:
    (A) a temporary transfer of a handgun or ammunition to a juvenile or to the possession or use of a handgun or ammunition by a juvenile if the handgun and ammunition are possessed and used by the juvenile:
    (i) in the course of employment, in the course of ranching or farming related to activities at the residence of the juvenile (or on property used for ranching or farming at which the juvenile, with the permission of the property owner or lessee, is performing activities related to the operation of the farm or ranch), target practice, hunting, or a course of instruction in the safe and lawful use of a handgun;
    (ii) with the prior written consent of the juvenile's parent or guardian who is not prohibited by Federal, State, or local law from possessing a firearm:
    (5) For purposes of this subsection, the term "juvenile" means a person who is less than 18 years of age.

  5. #5
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    So, just to clarify this (I am a bit slow this AM)...

    My son is 17. We will be bear hunting. So long as he "is under the supervision of a parent, guardian, or other adult approved for the purpose by the parent or guardian" he can carry my .38 as a backup?

  6. #6
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    .....
    So if I go hiking with my 14 and 15 yr. old I can write them a note and they can carry?

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Yes.

    That is how it works.

    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    So if I go hiking with my 14 and 15 yr. old I can write them a note and they can carry?
    Live Free or Die!

  8. #8
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    He needs a note even in my presence? Seems weird, but I'll do it just to be legal and all...but that is silly.

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