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Thread: Tell me about the P-64

  1. #1
    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    Tell me about the P-64

    A guy I know is selling a Polish P-64 pistol chambered in 9x18 Makarov. It comes with two mags, has a trigger job, and he says that it works great. What would be a normal price for this gun? Is there anything to look out for in terms of reliability or function?
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Hmmm funny you should ask as I got one and it is my new primary BUG.

    Go here http://www.p64resource.com/

    I am guessing the trigger job is just a new lighter main spring... I put an 18# in mine ... makes the DA much nicer.

    To tame the recoil a bit I installed a heavier recoil spring as well.

    All are available from Wolf Gun Springs.

    The main issue with these is the safety on some is too hard and can break. The above forum I linked can tell you more about that.

    Dr. Todd may have something to say on this topic as well.

    Mine is super accurate IE I can drop 4 inch plates from 20 yards with no sweat and this from a PPK size gun.

    I carry mine in a Fobus Ankle holster or a homebrew pocket holster.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  3. #3
    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info. I'm going to check this one out this Saturday in Hartford. If it shoots well and is comfortable in my hand, I may buy it.

    Is $200 a standard price?
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Yeah that is about what they are going for... I paid 197.00 shipped from SOG to me... of course you cannot do that as you have no FFL 03... so YES it's a good deal.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by autosurgeon View Post
    Yeah that is about what they are going for... I paid 197.00 shipped from SOG to me... of course you cannot do that as you have no FFL 03... so YES it's a good deal.

    Autosurgeon... you were right, it is VERY accurate. The trigger pull seemed to loosen up considerably after I ran about 300 rounds through it. I think I'll keep the original springs but may change my mind after a while. I'm carrying it with one in the chamber safety off. With the trigger pull, I still think that is pretty " safe".

    I paid $180.00 from MCS to me, having the FFL-03 is great. I saw one at Gander Mountain for $260.00 The only bummer at that price was no holster and only 1 mag. BTW, know any good mag sources.... I love it, though. From what I understand, it is a little hotter than a .380, not at the level of a 9mm, though.
    Last edited by DrTodd; 09-02-2010 at 08:45 PM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  6. #6
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    J&G had some mags... I got 2 extra from there.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    It's a Makarov copy.

    Reliable is dictated by quality of ammo, as well as the end-user. The main problem I experienced, is when fired from a loose grip, the weapon would FTF. This might have been the surplus ammo we were shooting as well. Hornady does make self defense ammo.

    Overall though, it has a good heritage, and would make an excellent backup or deep-carry gun.

    That gun already has the Wolff springs in it. Made a HUGE difference.

    -Richard-

  8. #8
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by autosurgeon View Post
    J&G had some mags... I got 2 extra from there.
    Ordered 4 today
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  9. #9
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by office888 View Post
    It's a Makarov copy.

    Reliable is dictated by quality of ammo, as well as the end-user. The main problem I experienced, is when fired from a loose grip, the weapon would FTF. This might have been the surplus ammo we were shooting as well. Hornady does make self defense ammo.

    Overall though, it has a good heritage, and would make an excellent backup or deep-carry gun.

    That gun already has the Wolff springs in it. Made a HUGE difference.

    -Richard-
    Actually it is NOT a Makarov copy... the internals and so forth are much different. If anything it is a Walther PPKS copy.

    There are many 9x18 guns out there some made by Radom some made by FEG some by CZ and the only thing they really share with the Makarov is the caliber.
    Last edited by autosurgeon; 09-06-2010 at 08:53 AM.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    Actually it is not a PPK copy. It was developed separately and is coincidentally similar. But it is very close! :P

    By the way, I shot it before I bought it and OWWWWW! This thing kicks like CRAZY and is so small that my hand was sore a few hours after I shot it from ONLY 18 ROUNDS! This is going to be a BUG so hopefully I will never have to shoot it again, save the occasional 1-mag-at-the-range-to-make-sure-it-still-works thing.

    I took it home and cleaned the crap out of it to be sure it is in working order.
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

  11. #11
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    While it is not a direct PPKS copy it is quite apparent that the Polish designers were aware of the PPKS and incorporated the better aspects of the design into their gun.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  12. #12
    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    I've been trying to find some good information on this, but I can't seem to dig up anything concrete - maybe DrTodd can answer this....

    Is it safe to carry the P-64 chambered with the hammer down and safety/decocker off? Does the hammer rest on the firing pin?

    Also, is it safe to carry chambered, hammer up? (SA, decocker obviously off)
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

  13. #13
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EM87 View Post
    I've been trying to find some good information on this, but I can't seem to dig up anything concrete - maybe DrTodd can answer this....

    Is it safe to carry the P-64 chambered with the hammer down and safety/decocker off? Does the hammer rest on the firing pin?

    Also, is it safe to carry chambered, hammer up? (SA, decocker obviously off)

    Yes it is safe to carry DA chambered safety/decocker off

    It is not safe to carry SA
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  14. #14
    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    Can you please explain why for each of those?
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by autosurgeon View Post
    Yes it is safe to carry DA chambered safety/decocker off

    It is not safe to carry SA
    I agree. I am certainly no expert on the p64 but I feel that the DA trigger pull by itself is more than adequate to serve as a safe way to carry. The SA trigger pull is VERY light; I wouldn't rely on it to keep the pistol from firing.

    I've heard some issue with the safety being too difficult to engage/disengage which certainly would be an problem in a SD situation; I've seen owners state that if the safety seems to not function smoothly it may not function at all at some point. Mine seems relatively smooth so this issue is not one I am concerned about. This website is the best place to get information about the p64:
    http://www.p64resource.com/
    Our own Autosurgeon is a member... I haven't signed up YET but have read every page on there

    My DA trigger pull has become very smooth... I've run about 500 rounds through it at this point. I feel comfortable keeping one in the pipe and safety off... basically relying on the DA as my "safety".My concern would be neglecting to switch the safety off in a stressful situation. Part of philosophy, though, stems from my EDC; a Glock 23 which I also carry one in the pipe. (The G23 has no external safety). Yes ,I know that the internal safeties preclude it being fired w/out as long as I keep my finger off the trigger, but that p64 trigger-pull is much more than my g23.
    Last edited by DrTodd; 09-06-2010 at 07:41 PM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    DrTodd- I also carry a GLOCK with one in the pipe. The trigger pull is not my area of concern. What I am worried about is the hammer seemingly resting on the firing pin when the decocker/safety is not engaged. I have read that the P-64 has a 'firing pin block', but I'm not really sure what that is. Can you elaborate for me?

    As for carrying with it chambered and the hammer back, how is that not safe? It's not going to go off unless I pull the trigger, right? The trigger still has to travel quite a ways before the release. Why would it matter if it's a light pull or not? My GLOCK has a light pull too but I carry it condition 0.

    I have read a bit on that website and noticed that Autosurgeon is a member.
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    The reason it is not safe in condition 0 is there is nothing to stop the hammer in a drop scenario.

    When the hammer is down the trigger must be back in order for the hammer to hit the firing pin. Basicly there is no drop safety at all when the hammer is cocked.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  18. #18
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EM87 View Post
    DrTodd- I also carry a GLOCK with one in the pipe. The trigger pull is not my area of concern. What I am worried about is the hammer seemingly resting on the firing pin when the decocker/safety is not engaged. I have read that the P-64 has a 'firing pin block', but I'm not really sure what that is. Can you elaborate for me?

    As for carrying with it chambered and the hammer back, how is that not safe? It's not going to go off unless I pull the trigger, right? The trigger still has to travel quite a ways before the release. Why would it matter if it's a light pull or not? My GLOCK has a light pull too but I carry it condition 0.

    I have read a bit on that website and noticed that Autosurgeon is a member.
    On the Glock there is a "drop safety" which prevents "hard impact" unintentional firing. When the trigger is pulled, the trigger bar is guided in a "safety ramp". The trigger bar is deflected from this ramp only in the moment the shot is actually triggered.

    The Decocker on the P64 allows the hammer to be dropped on a live cartridge without risk of discharging it by blocking the pin. The P64 uses an inertia style firing pin where even with the trigger pulled the pin doesn't contact the cartridge primer unless the hammer is dropped from the cocked position. BUT since no system is "foolproof", especially in a milsurp firearm, I would still police the muzzle even with using the decocker as no system is foolproof...
    Last edited by DrTodd; 09-06-2010 at 10:10 PM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  19. #19
    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    So let me see if I have this straight....

    The inertia style firing pin prevents NDs from happening when carried chambered, hammer down, safety off? What if there was a hard impact to the hammer in that scenario that mimicked the hammer being dropped? Could that dischange the firearm?

    As far as condition 0, how would a drop discharge the firearm? By hitting the hammer too hard and releasing it?
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

  20. #20
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    The firing pin is not long enough to hit the primer unless it is hit with sufficient force to overcome the spring and travel forward.

    The hammer cannot travel far enough forward even when the safety is off to hit the pin with enough force to overcome the spring.

    The issue when cocked safety off is two fold.

    One the hammer sear to hammer interlock could break if dropped allowing a hammer strike on the firing pin and BC it is cocked there would be sufficient energy to overcome the firing pin spring.

    Two as the SA trigger pull is fairly light the likelihood of accidental trigger manipulation causing a hammer strike is fairly high if not carried in a proper holster. Also it is possible a hard bump could cause sear to hammer disengagement which would result in a hammer strike.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  21. #21
    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    Ahhh, it all makes sense now. Thank you!
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

  22. #22
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    I found a local source of Silver Bear for $11.00 for a box of 50, so it was off to the range today after work. I was able to put 250 rounds through it before I went home for supper. I think this is the best part of carrying the p64... since I don't reload too often,the cost to practice with it is so reasonable.

    BTW, I lessened the "bite" of the recoil quite a bit by buying some rubberized marine tape; you've probably seen the commercial on t.v. for the non-stick tape that seals on itself. I plan on getting the grip modified a bit but for now, this fix seems to work. I found it at Harbor Freight for $4.99 a roll. I wrapped a few turns of the roll around the grip where the web of my hand fits the grip. This seemed to take take care of the "pain point" that so many p64 owners complain about. Now its starting to feel like a real EDC.
    Last edited by DrTodd; 09-08-2010 at 06:18 PM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  23. #23
    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    I'll have to get some of that because 18 rounds was my limit when I first shot it. That thing seriously hurts to shoot.
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

  24. #24
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EM87 View Post
    That thing seriously hurts to shoot.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  25. #25
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Mine doesn't hurt... must be I have tougher hands
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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