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Thread: AB&E Freep Article by Gun industry lawyer

  1. #1
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    AB&E Freep Article by Gun industry lawyer


  2. #2
    Regular Member Jerbear1098's Avatar
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    Sorry..... he's an idiot!
    "It isn't that Liberals are ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so" --Ronald Reagan

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    As a whole, not a terrible article. Truthful on the facts of legality and the huge challenge of outlawing open carry. Bad because, again...This was not an open carry issue!!! It was all carry!!! Last but not least, "a right is a privilege"?!?!?! WTF? A right is a RIGHT!!

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    As a whole, not a terrible article. Truthful on the facts of legality and the huge challenge of outlawing open carry. Bad because, again...This was not an open carry issue!!! It was all carry!!! Last but not least, "a right is a privilege"?!?!?! WTF? A right is a RIGHT!!
    Agreed.

    Here is what I take issue with from the article:

    Second, the open carry issue has rarely come up in the past primarily because most law abiding firearm owners are responsible citizens who do not have the desire to carry openly because, at best, it draws unwanted attention to them and, at worst, could result in the carrier being targeted should an unwanted situation arise.
    Because of these issues, I am currently composing an email to Mr Yamin and his CEO letting them know EXACTLY the issues with this commentary.

    Scot623 - Please post this at MGO and I will post my letter to both sites.

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    Regular Member Jerbear1098's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDinDetroit View Post
    Agreed.

    Here is what I take issue with from the article:



    Because of these issues, I am currently composing an email to Mr Yamin and his CEO letting them know EXACTLY the issues with this commentary.

    Scot623 - Please post this at MGO and I will post my letter to both sites.

    Paul, got ya covered.... it's in the open carry forum.
    "It isn't that Liberals are ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so" --Ronald Reagan

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerbear1098 View Post
    Paul, got ya covered.... it's in the open carry forum.
    You Rock!

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    I'd bet he golfs with L. Brooks Patterson.

    Huh, he is the current president of the Detroit Gun Club.

    http://www.detnews.com/article/20100...50352/1001/biz


    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

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    Regular Member Jerbear1098's Avatar
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    No wonder they keep losing members.
    "It isn't that Liberals are ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so" --Ronald Reagan

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    I'd like to know which firearms industries he represents, as I have an idea for how they can recover a boatload of the money they have paid for legal services.

    "Rather, a right is a privilege that should be respected and used with common sense and discretion" is not merely a distortion of fact, but coming out of his mouth is evidence of a complete lack of knowledge of legal process. That is evidence of ineffective counsel, for which you can recover much of the fees paid even if your side prevailed.

    A note to the senior partners of his form may result in a closed-door interview and performance evaluatiuon. Perhaps not for being such a poor lawyer, but for bringing disgrace and discredit to the firm. I may never find out, but it's going in the mail tonight.

    stay safe.

    ETA: Anybody wanting to contact the named partner in the firm (the big boss) can do so at jhowlett AT beierhowlett DOT com. Given the publicity of the event locally, I'm sure he's just love to hear how one of his attorneys, who represents the firearms industry, sounds to the general public.
    Last edited by skidmark; 09-02-2010 at 05:14 PM. Reason: snarky comment and email address added

  10. #10
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    My Email

    Joseph F. Yamin,
    Lawyer with Beier Howlett P.C.

    Mr. Joseph F. Yamin,

    I am sending this email due to the recent Commentary you provided to the Detroit Free Press and published on September 2nd, 2010. I am one of the persons who worked with the City Of Royal Oak on the ABE Contract Issue. The email below should provide you with a little background on the issue. I will send a additional email that further details the issue. My emails are In My Opinion only.

    Commentary Link: http://www.freep.com/article/2010090...ON05/100902047

    First of all, it appears you have not performed the requisite research on the issue prior to speaking publicly. This does not speak well to your credibility on the matter. What results is that your commentary is reduced to little more than an emotional response aired in an attempt to sway the court of public opinion. Was this the message you intended to portray? Is this a responsible, reasoned approach that reflects well on your employer as well as on your position on the Board Of Directors for the Detroit Gun Club?

    Let me provide some information for you to mull over:

    1. This was never an Open Carry issue, the contract provision stated "no firearms" (Section 3, Provision q). I Conceal Carried to the 3rd Royal Oak City Commission Meeting to help them understand this very point. See the emails for further details.

    2. The City of Royal Oak was approached privately to discuss and resolve the contract provision issue. This is the preferred method that we follow if at all possible and there are clear examples to be found with the proper research. Please refer to the history I provided below.

    3. A Right is not a Privilege. As a lawyer, I cannot believe you even wrote this.

    4. Open Carry has been the law of the land in Michigan since 1835. There can be no better exercise of keeping and bearing arms than a firearm openly carried. See Michigan Constitution Article I Section 6 for details.

    5. Your statements of unwanted attention and/or possible targeting is baseless. A simple google search of Open Carry would have revealed sites like OpenCarry.Org and MichiganOpenCarry.org, which depict thousands of Open Carry Experiences over 43 states and other situational/tactical information that are in direct factual contradiction to your statements. In over 1 year of Open Carrying, I have had a series of overwhelmingly "non-events" as most people do not even notice I carry and those who do make it no issue (as it should be).

    6. The second of your listed facts attempts to smear persons as irresponsible who provide for their fundamental right of self-protection by Open Carrying. Nothing could be further from the truth. I take exception to this as you do not know me and could have easily contacted me had you performed Due Diligence Research. The July and August City Commission proceedings are published as videos on the City Of Royal Oak Website and you can find my comments recorded during the Public Comments time.

    7. The tone of the commentary appears to be from someone who has not Open Carried and are the same old tired Concealed vs. Open arguments that have been refuted time and time again. Since you appear to have no basis in experience or research in this Open Carry area, why would you publish something at all? Would your employer consider it responsible for you to practice law for a particular area where you are not experienced?

    8. Do you not realize that we are fellow firearm owners who might provide business to a law firm and/or the Detroit Gun Club? Do you realize that the Gun Control groups lap up articles like yours to help fuel their efforts?


    Please know that this letter will be posted to Firearm Sites in Michigan for informational purposes. Please consider your further actions carefully as it reflects upon your employer, upon firearm owners as a whole, and potentially upon the choices of firearm clients the firm might someday represent.


    Sincerely,

    PDinDetroit

    CC: Timothy J. Currier, CEO
    Last edited by PDinDetroit; 09-02-2010 at 05:12 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Angry

    "Rights are a privilege" WTF = He has the right to breath...I suggest he attempt to treat it like a privilege & hold his breath until he passes out! What a *******!

  12. #12
    Regular Member quarter horseman's Avatar
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    I love it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Glock9mmOldStyle View Post
    "Rights are a privilege" WTF = He has the right to breath...I suggest he attempt to treat it like a privilege & hold his breath until he passes out! What a *******!
    + 1

  13. #13
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    that lawyer doesnt know michigan law!!

    even with a CPL nobody can carry concealed,
    they must open carry, with a CPL, because the whole place is going to be a Bar!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  14. #14
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    not true. you can cc or oc as primary source of income is from parking
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

  15. #15
    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Good Job!

    This is a well articulated response....I'll be curious if he engages or responds back with you or if his senior's do....

    stay safe.

    Quote Originally Posted by PDinDetroit View Post
    Joseph F. Yamin,
    Lawyer with Beier Howlett P.C.

    Mr. Joseph F. Yamin,

    I am sending this email due to the recent Commentary you provided to the Detroit Free Press and published on September 2nd, 2010. I am one of the persons who worked with the City Of Royal Oak on the ABE Contract Issue. The email below should provide you with a little background on the issue. I will send a additional email that further details the issue. My emails are In My Opinion only.

    Commentary Link: http://www.freep.com/article/2010090...ON05/100902047

    First of all, it appears you have not performed the requisite research on the issue prior to speaking publicly. This does not speak well to your credibility on the matter. What results is that your commentary is reduced to little more than an emotional response aired in an attempt to sway the court of public opinion. Was this the message you intended to portray? Is this a responsible, reasoned approach that reflects well on your employer as well as on your position on the Board Of Directors for the Detroit Gun Club?

    Let me provide some information for you to mull over:

    1. This was never an Open Carry issue, the contract provision stated "no firearms" (Section 3, Provision q). I Conceal Carried to the 3rd Royal Oak City Commission Meeting to help them understand this very point. See the emails for further details.

    2. The City of Royal Oak was approached privately to discuss and resolve the contract provision issue. This is the preferred method that we follow if at all possible and there are clear examples to be found with the proper research. Please refer to the history I provided below.

    3. A Right is not a Privilege. As a lawyer, I cannot believe you even wrote this.

    4. Open Carry has been the law of the land in Michigan since 1835. There can be no better exercise of keeping and bearing arms than a firearm openly carried. See Michigan Constitution Article I Section 6 for details.

    5. Your statements of unwanted attention and/or possible targeting is baseless. A simple google search of Open Carry would have revealed sites like OpenCarry.Org and MichiganOpenCarry.org, which depict thousands of Open Carry Experiences over 43 states and other situational/tactical information that are in direct factual contradiction to your statements. In over 1 year of Open Carrying, I have had a series of overwhelmingly "non-events" as most people do not even notice I carry and those who do make it no issue (as it should be).

    6. The second of your listed facts attempts to smear persons as irresponsible who provide for their fundamental right of self-protection by Open Carrying. Nothing could be further from the truth. I take exception to this as you do not know me and could have easily contacted me had you performed Due Diligence Research. The July and August City Commission proceedings are published as videos on the City Of Royal Oak Website and you can find my comments recorded during the Public Comments time.

    7. The tone of the commentary appears to be from someone who has not Open Carried and are the same old tired Concealed vs. Open arguments that have been refuted time and time again. Since you appear to have no basis in experience or research in this Open Carry area, why would you publish something at all? Would your employer consider it responsible for you to practice law for a particular area where you are not experienced?

    8. Do you not realize that we are fellow firearm owners who might provide business to a law firm and/or the Detroit Gun Club? Do you realize that the Gun Control groups lap up articles like yours to help fuel their efforts?


    Please know that this letter will be posted to Firearm Sites in Michigan for informational purposes. Please consider your further actions carefully as it reflects upon your employer, upon firearm owners as a whole, and potentially upon the choices of firearm clients the firm might someday represent.


    Sincerely,

    PDinDetroit

    CC: Timothy J. Currier, CEO
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

  16. #16
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    Joseph Yamin in my humble opinion is either an IDIOT or worse yet a collaborator with the anti gun crowd.

    First this absolutely stupid comment he makes. "Rather, a right is a privilege that should be respected and used with common sense and discretion. Firearm owners should strive to demonstrate that they are responsible and should exercise their right to carry with such common sense and discretion."

    No Joesph a right is a RIGHT not a privilege, what a stupid and contradictory statement. This idiot went to Law School?

    And again he makes such an asinine remark as this? "For those who wish to take advantage of our current laws, we may question their desire for attention, but must concede their right to openly carry in Michigan."

    Wait I need to concede my rights? What kind of double speak and double minded stupidity is this? I will concede NOTHING Joey. If I was in charge you would be fired for such stupidity that even a 4th grader can see is damnably ignorant and completely contradictory.

    Okay Joey I need to be responsible and surrender my rights? are you SERIOUS? Oh wait you are making a joke here right? "The open carry folks have made their point that they have the right to open carry. Now they should demonstrate that they are responsible guardians of that right by not openly carrying at the AB&E festival, thereby letting the festival be about fun, not guns."

    The AB&E can be about fun with my rights INTACT JOEY! My gun rights do not stop anyone from having fun you MORON!

    I feel sick to my stomach I will be right back I need to VOMIT!

    Joey is a traitor in my humble opinion.

    Be glad I didn't tell my true feelings..

    Read more: Gun advocate: Don't show off firearms during Arts, Beats & Eats | freep.com | Detroit Free Press http://www.freep.com/article/2010090...#ixzz0yTpe1eW3

    Read more: Gun advocate: Don't show off firearms during Arts, Beats & Eats | freep.com | Detroit Free Press http://www.freep.com/article/2010090...#ixzz0yToq3R3O

    Read more: Gun advocate: Don't show off firearms during Arts, Beats & Eats | freep.com | Detroit Free Press http://www.freep.com/article/2010090...#ixzz0yToSAxpR




    Last edited by Bailenforcer; 09-03-2010 at 11:30 AM.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

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    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    We disagree he tainted the article with outright lies. See my previous post. He literally threw us under a bus.

    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    As a whole, not a terrible article. Truthful on the facts of legality and the huge challenge of outlawing open carry. Bad because, again...This was not an open carry issue!!! It was all carry!!! Last but not least, "a right is a privilege"?!?!?! WTF? A right is a RIGHT!!
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    I am not sorry, he is a moron not worthy of a Law license in my opinion.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jerbear1098 View Post
    Sorry..... he's an idiot!
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    Sorry you are not correct it is not a bar it is a ART, food and music festival that allows CHILDREN thus not a bar. If it fits the qualifications of a bar then children being allowed would be a serious problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    even with a CPL nobody can carry concealed,
    they must open carry, with a CPL, because the whole place is going to be a Bar!
    Last edited by Bailenforcer; 09-03-2010 at 11:30 AM.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  20. #20
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    it IS a serious problem!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bailenforcer View Post
    Sorry you are not correct it is not a bar it is a ART, food and music festival that allows CHILDREN thus not a bar. If it fits the qualifications of a bar then children being allowed would be a serious problem.
    ive read and studied all i can about RO and ABE, every thread and post..
    the cops are saying they will bend two laws,,, unaccompanied minors, in a drinking (zone).
    and non CPL open carrying in a drinking (zone).
    they made the mistake of turning the whole place into a (BAR),
    instead of beer tents, and wine gardens.
    i get so confused with the deep meaning of your contradictory rules, that i am using simplified ideas and words to try to get my feelings for the illegalities that surround the whole mess out of my brain, and into this post.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  21. #21
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    It's obvious isn't it?

    They did that to muddy the waters hoping their open bar argument would preclude all carry. It didn't and they failed. It was nothing more than a half baked attempt to prohibit guns by declaring the whole city a bar in essence. It would not hold up in the Supreme court nor any appellate courts. The intentions are clear as day. They tried to limit rights by bending laws, a serious no no.

    Any attempt to violate laws to violate rights can be seen as chaos and dictatorial even by liberals. This mindset was once tried by Adolph Hitler. What next Royal Oak burns down a gun store (Reischstag fire) and blame open carriers?

    That open bar bull is so transparent an eight year old can see what they are trying. If I were a Liberal leftist I would ponder why they are doing this and worry what kind of Nazi mindset I elected. This mindset is so dangerous that everyone is at risk with the city attorneys and elected officials creating situations that violate laws, rights and create unneeded confusion and bad feelings.


    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    ive read and studied all i can about RO and ABE, every thread and post..
    the cops are saying they will bend two laws,,, unaccompanied minors, in a drinking (zone).
    and non CPL open carrying in a drinking (zone).
    they made the mistake of turning the whole place into a (BAR),
    instead of beer tents, and wine gardens.
    i get so confused with the deep meaning of your contradictory rules, that i am using simplified ideas and words to try to get my feelings for the illegalities that surround the whole mess out of my brain, and into this post.
    Last edited by Bailenforcer; 09-03-2010 at 12:21 PM.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  22. #22
    Regular Member dukenukum's Avatar
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    Be vewy vewy quite i am hunting wabbits, we have a name for gun owners, if he is a gun owner fudds.

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Smile ;) [I always hoped Elmer would do this when I was a kid]

    Quote Originally Posted by dukenukum View Post
    Be vewy vewy quite i am hunting wabbits, we have a name for gun owners, if he is a gun owner fudds.
    http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/...lls+Bugs+Bunny

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