Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 147

Thread: California UOCers: please avoid black rifle drama...

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    18

    California UOCers: please avoid black rifle drama...

    Hello California UOCers,

    I'll not go into another Bill W. harangue here about merits (or lack thereof) of general UOCing, or the political consequences we luckily dodged.

    [We were fortunate *this year* to end up having some big help from unexpected quarters and from drama around two legislators (one with mental function issues, one very ill) that would've required being wheeled in on gurneys to vote. Who knows what'll happen next year.]

    But what I WILL specifically ask for, however, is to PLEASE REFRAIN FROM (U)OC OF BLACK RIFLES/"EVIL LONG GUNS", etc.

    Certain groups don't need to be alienated and are disposed to work with us on certain key legislative matters of important mutual/overlapping interest in the future. OCing of EBRs can result in more Saldaña-style PR drama with guns even more inflammatory than sidearms.

    Let's not speculate publicly here, but I'm hoping some folks here can 'read between the lines' and help guide others. Fixups with multi-group support are achieveable and are much cheaper than litigation.

    Thank you!


    Bill Wiese
    CGF
    San Jose CA
    Last edited by bwiese; 09-02-2010 at 04:36 PM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Vista, California, USA
    Posts
    516
    I agree.
    And another thing to be aware of are the chiefs of departments that backed AB1934 and what their instructions to their officers will be on UOC now.
    UOC of an EBR will bring more unnecessary attention.
    Last edited by yelohamr; 09-02-2010 at 05:27 PM.

  3. #3
    Regular Member ryanburbridge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Long beach ca, , USA
    Posts
    299
    When will we quit thinking like this? I am for the repeal of EVERY gun law on the books. I will not negotiate or compromise on this. This is how we got to the point we are at. When will the large and small gun groups stand up for ALL gun rights. Why do people buy into the lies that gun laws work. Why is the NRA ok with some restriction? Why be happy with stoping a ban when we should be looking at getting rid of laws already on the books. If it is leagle now why would you ask someone not to enjoy thier freedom and do what they want?

    Carry on! I support all leagle carry long gun or not!

  4. #4
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    1,748
    Come now Ryan, is the request to not carry a weapon that is offensive in nature really such a bizarre request? If AB 1934 were to pass, things would be different and the carrying of long rifles would be a prudent protest to send a message to our politicians. Handguns are inherently a defensive weapon, and if any of us plan on carrying for purposes of self-defense, then we would be carrying the appropriate tool for the job.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Utah, USA
    Posts
    184

    Wisdom

    I agree especially on the specific points of drawing as much positive attention as possible from citizens. While drawing no attention from law enforcement except to reenforce that we are not going away and that their conduct will be scrutinized until acceptance and normalization is achieved.

  6. #6
    Regular Member leoffensive's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    San Diego, California, USA
    Posts
    309
    Quote Originally Posted by DEFENSOR View Post
    I agree especially on the specific points of drawing as much positive attention as possible from citizens. While drawing no attention from law enforcement except to reenforce that we are not going away and that their conduct will be scrutinized until acceptance and normalization is achieved.
    as much as i wanna say "eff that im gonna carry my ak and ar at the same time!" they are probably right.

  7. #7
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Lynnwood, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,238

    I wanted to point out something:

    The OCDO forum has a rule against discussing long gun open carry. It is considered off-topic.

    AB1934 is dead this year. The reason Bill is posting this in this forum is because of fact that he works with the gun rights lobbyists (Worley, Pederson) in Sacramento and AB1934 was extraordinarily difficult to defeat and twist arms to run out the clock.

    EBR carry is off-topic in this forum, it's a bad idea politically for many different reasons. California is not Arizona.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Rich Keagy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Riverside, California, USA
    Posts
    126
    Not sure here.
    I've been looking for a Model '92 Winchester (remember the Rifleman?). I'd love to tote one of those around!
    ARs and AKs are ugly. Sorry.

  9. #9
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Sons of Liberty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Riverside, California, USA
    Posts
    638
    Well, I know of at least one individual who only has a long gun. I'll not be the one to dissaude him from exercising his 2nd amendment right to bear the only gun he has!
    Clinging to God & Guns: The Constitution Restoration Project

  10. #10
    Founder's Club Member MudCamper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Sebastopol, California, USA
    Posts
    710
    I wholeheartedly support Bill, and the CGF on this one. Let's keep the long guns out of OC for now (in urban areas anyway).

    Ryan, you are failing to see that we are now winning, both in the courts, and as a side effect to that, in the political arena. Yes, the CA legislature are still ignorant but they are learning that anti-gun legislation is becoming a hot potato that will burn them if they are not careful. And regardless what they do, we are winning in the courts.

    This is not the time to be rash. This is the time to celebrate our wins, but keep our cool, in order to keep winning the battles and eventually the war. For the first time in my life I see that victory is possible, but only if we keep fighting smart.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    California
    Posts
    45
    I'm not sure you can call any firearm defensive in nature, they all were originally designed for military use, and to attack. Firearms are just the new swords and daggers, both equally defensive and offensive. I just think that LongGuns are impratical for everyday use, and like everyone said draw unnecessary attention.
    However, I defenitely would like to be able to buy things for my rifle without having to worry about legal issues, cuz seriously what does a name change matter; because it says Bushmaster on the side instead of Sigarms it's unsafe?

  12. #12
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Sons of Liberty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Riverside, California, USA
    Posts
    638
    And how does a CGF'er get a sticky?! I heard the CGF'ers were wanting AB1934 to pass! So, how does a CGF'er start lecturing us again about what to do and not do?! Do I need to bring up all of the static over this past year by CGF'ers?
    Clinging to God & Guns: The Constitution Restoration Project

  13. #13
    Founder's Club Member MudCamper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Sebastopol, California, USA
    Posts
    710
    Sons Of Liberty, please don't incite infighting between pro-2A groups. We are all on the same side. CGF did not want AB1934 to pass. They publicly opposed it. What may be confusing you is that Gene posted a potential strategy to use the law against it's idiot author's intent had it passed.

    CGF is fighting for our 2A rights, doing so more effectively than most anyone else in CA. And without Bill specifically, none of us would have OLL rifles right now. Given that, I think we can show the guy some respect in that particular arena.

  14. #14
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Sons of Liberty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Riverside, California, USA
    Posts
    638
    Quote Originally Posted by MudCamper View Post
    Sons Of Liberty, please don't incite infighting between pro-2A groups. We are all on the same side. CGF did not want AB1934 to pass. They publicly opposed it. What may be confusing you is that Gene posted a potential strategy to use the law against it's idiot author's intent had it passed.

    CGF is fighting for our 2A rights, doing so more effectively than most anyone else in CA. And without Bill specifically, none of us would have OLL rifles right now. Given that, I think we can show the guy some respect in that particular arena.
    I wasn't the one going over to CGF's website telling them what they should do! Certain CGF'ers show up at key times and try to regulate/dictate what we can legally do. Their political wranglings are part of the problem. It's still about control, isn't it? I'm not the one inciting.

    And I respect Al Gore for inventing the internet, but I won't vote for him!
    Clinging to God & Guns: The Constitution Restoration Project

  15. #15
    Newbie cato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    2,335
    Quote Originally Posted by Sons of Liberty View Post
    I wasn't the one going over to CGF's website telling them what they should do! Certain CGF'ers show up at key times and try to regulate/dictate what we can legally do. Their political wranglings are part of the problem. It's still about control, isn't it? I'm not the one inciting.

    And I respect Al Gore for inventing the internet, but I won't vote for him!
    I grabbed my rifle and Gadsdon but didn't see you outside so I went back in to the internet .

    Start the revolution without me I guess. Dude things are looking up, be happy.
    Last edited by cato; 09-03-2010 at 12:44 AM.

  16. #16
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Sons of Liberty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Riverside, California, USA
    Posts
    638
    Quote Originally Posted by cato View Post
    I grabbed my rifle and Gadsdon but didn't see you outside so I went back in to the internet .

    Start the revolution without me I guess. Dude things are looking up, be happy.
    OK, you're right. Is there anything else the CGF'ers need for me to do? Could I send them a couple of thousand dollars? Could I sing the praises of OLL? Just let me know.
    Clinging to God & Guns: The Constitution Restoration Project

  17. #17
    Newbie cato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    2,335
    Quote Originally Posted by Sons of Liberty View Post
    And how does a CGF'er get a sticky?!
    Because this sites owners agree, co-operate, and are DOWN with the coalition plan; Alan Gura, Don Kilmer, Jason Davis, Gene Hoffman, Mike Stolenwerk, John Peirce, Bill Weise, Gary Peterson, Me, Mudcamper, CA Libertarian, Condition3, (& many other OCers criminally defended by CGF in years past) Virginia Citizens Defense League and all the other states movers and shakers in WI, MI, WA, AZ, GA, CO, IL, DC and nationally are on the same page.

    The forlorn hope has crossed the moat (Heller-McDonald) but we still need to weaken their outer wall (Nordyke-Sykes-Palmer-Pena) before storming the castle and committing our reserves (down with 12031, 626.9, AW ban etc...).

    I know you hear King Henry V's Agincourt speech urging you to charge but let the sappers and miners do their work first. Then in with the light troops followed by the grenadiers and Tally Ho it is!

    Sign up son, you're a firebrand! We need you and want your passion working to peacefully and positively to restore our Republic
    Last edited by cato; 09-03-2010 at 01:04 AM.

  18. #18
    Newbie cato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    2,335
    Quote Originally Posted by Sons of Liberty View Post
    OK, you're right. Is there anything else the CGF'ers need for me to do? Could I send them a couple of thousand dollars? Could I sing the praises of OLL? Just let me know.
    Just put the best positive friendly smilling face on UOC/OC you can. Be happy and you will attract people to your side (hat tip to a fortune cookie I met last night )

  19. #19
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Sons of Liberty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Riverside, California, USA
    Posts
    638
    Quote Originally Posted by cato View Post
    Because this sites owners agree, co-operate, and are DOWN with the coalition plan; Alan Gura, Don Kilmer, Jason Davis, Gene Hoffman, Mike Stolenwerk, John Peirce, Bill Weise, Gary Peterson, Me, Mudcamper, CA Libertarian, Condition3, (& many other OCers criminally defended by CGF in years past) Virginia Citizens Defense League and all the other states movers and shakers in WI, MI, WA, AZ, GA, CO, IL, DC and nationally are on the same page.
    Wow! So opencarry.org is now controlled by CGF?! Wow! I figured something like this might happen.
    Clinging to God & Guns: The Constitution Restoration Project

  20. #20
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Shasta County, California, USA
    Posts
    2,231
    Quote Originally Posted by Sons of Liberty View Post
    Wow! So opencarry.org is now controlled by CGF?! Wow! I figured something like this might happen.
    I think if you ask John Pierce and Mike Stollenwerk whether the Calguns Foundation controls OCDO, they will assure you that as a seperate organization with parallel goals and interests, the CGF is a sister organization that is more narrowly interested in Californias unique second amendment environment. They would probably agree that you cannot treat California in the same way you would treat Virginia, Utah, or Vermont. Positive change is slower here and resisted more than any other place when it comes to firearms... and trying to advance our interests with a wide open throttle in all likelihood, will not get us there faster.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
    www.calgunsfoundation.org/amazon
    www.shop42a.com

  21. #21
    Newbie cato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    2,335
    Quote Originally Posted by Sons of Liberty View Post
    Wow! So opencarry.org is now controlled by CGF?! Wow! I figured something like this might happen.
    Nobody controls anything (except for the Mike and John). Nobody has the power of coercion here. We must use logic and debate and WE ALL COOPERATE voluntarily in an adult manner.

    Has it been lost on your readings or hate for CGF that Gene wants the end game to be a suppressed F/A SBR sub gun slung over the shoulder walking down a SF sidewalk with a beer in his hand (ok not the last part but)? It takes planning to get there or what you'll have with an onslaught of hail mary court cases is no usable right in our lifetime by snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory with very bad decisions. The enemy is still very stong politically and in judicial offices. Middle of the road or anti Judges must be painted into a corner legally by persuasive and binding but simple case law. Hence Heller's 'in the home only' prayer for relief for starters.

    Re-read the crossing the moat castle wall post (I liked that one).
    Last edited by cato; 09-03-2010 at 02:48 AM.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Sandy Eggo County
    Posts
    1,691
    Quote Originally Posted by Sons of Liberty View Post
    Wow! So opencarry.org is now controlled by CGF?!
    Maybe there is agreement on both sites.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

  23. #23
    Founder's Club Member MudCamper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Sebastopol, California, USA
    Posts
    710
    Quote Originally Posted by cato View Post
    Because this sites owners agree, co-operate, and are DOWN with the coalition plan; Alan Gura, Don Kilmer, Jason Davis, Gene Hoffman, Mike Stolenwerk, John Peirce, Bill Weise, Gary Peterson, Me, Mudcamper, CA Libertarian, Condition3, (& many other OCers criminally defended by CGF in years past) Virginia Citizens Defense League and all the other states movers and shakers in WI, MI, WA, AZ, GA, CO, IL, DC and nationally are on the same page.
    Whoa! Seeing my name mentioned with such company immediately brings the following to mind!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FucbvoFFy0

  24. #24
    Newbie cato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    2,335
    Quote Originally Posted by MudCamper View Post
    Whoa! Seeing my name mentioned with such company immediately brings the following to mind!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FucbvoFFy0
    I've kinda got blond hair and I recall you're a brunete? So it does fit. I will say I've sat a the same table with Jason Davis and Pullnshoot 25!!! Gene used to return my PM's before he got so busy. I think I have a napkin he wipped his mouth with and Alan Gura and Otis McDonald have signed my constitution along with Ron Paul!

    Oh gaud I'm a groupie...

    excuse me for the loss of composure I think I'm still giddy from last nights events
    Last edited by cato; 09-03-2010 at 01:35 AM.

  25. #25
    Newbie cato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    2,335
    the road map http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=317860 for anyone who missed it
    Last edited by cato; 09-03-2010 at 01:35 AM.

Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •