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Thread: “Officers’ safety comes first, and not infringing on people’s rights comes second”

  1. #1
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    “Officers’ safety comes first, and not infringing on people’s rights comes second”

    And there you have it: the Philadelphia Police Department’s view of its citizens’ right to bear arms. This via Lt. Fran Healy, special adviser to the police commissioner, responding to a story [at philly.com] about nine men arrested for firearms possession. All of whom held valid concealed carry permits. Four of whom are security guards. “Eight of the men said that they were detained by police – two for 18 hours each. Two were hospitalized for diabetic issues while in custody, one of whom was handcuffed to a bed. Charges were filed against three of the men, only to be withdrawn by the District Attorney’s Office.” Lt. Healy ”acknowledged that some city cops apparently are unfamiliar with some concealed-carry permits,” but that it’s “better for cops to err on the side of caution.” Here’s their beef . . .

    Link: http://thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/09...-comes-second/
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member Curmudgeon's Avatar
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    And it is not just disdain for the 2nd Amendment, but the 4th as well. Those damn pesky antiques (COTUS and the BoR) are only getting in the way of the poor embattled Philthy po-pos trying to do their job. /sarcasm.
    While many claim to support the right to keep and bear arms, precious few support the practice.

  3. #3
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    We've all heard the "officer safety is paramount" argument before.

    Of course, it is a lie. If officer safety were truly paramount, cops would never leave the station. There would be no high speed police chases, no confronting dangerous criminals; they'd be holed-up in their precincts hiding from danger.

    Its just a cover to get away with failing to use judgement, violating rights, and...whatever they think they can plausibly excuse with it.

    The fact that they would try to palm off such a flimsy excuse on the public tells us how these cops regard the public.

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    Spoken in true Philadelphia style.

  5. #5
    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    Then pay the price.

    If they admit to violate your rights for their perception of safety, then the victims of such a violation should have no problem recovering damages for the willful deprivation of their fundamental rights.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    No sweat. If you falsely arrest me or otherwise violate my rights or commit civil torts against me, my right to collect a punishing civil judgment against you comes first and not your ability to pay your mortgage and feed your children.

    And don't make an ass of yourself with the "call a hippie next time" crap.

    • Police have no legal duty to protect individuals.
    • Police have no legal liability when they fail to protect individuals.
    • Police have virtually no physical ability to protect individuals.

    Protect YOURSELF or don't get protected AT ALL. Anything else is a LIE.

    Threatening not to "protect" me from violent crime is as asinine and dishonest as threatening not to "protect" me from an asteroid impact. You've got ZERO legal duty to do either, even if you had the ability, which any thinking adult knows you DON'T.
    Last edited by Deanimator; 09-06-2010 at 02:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    No sweat. If you falsely arrest me or otherwise violate my rights or commit civil torts against me, my right to collect a punishing civil judgment against you comes first and not your ability to pay your mortgage and feed your children.
    It is a good thing that the PA Tort Reform bill passed before Rendell took office did absolutely nothing to curb massive awards from PA juries. Good for the folks suing Philly, bad for the taxpayers.

  8. #8
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    Deanimator:

    I really like your comment noted immediately above the previous Thread.

    As I understand it, much as you suggest, members of The Law Enforcement Community are under NO Legal obligations whatsoever to assist in any matter of Personnal Protection. They serve the State, not the Individual.

    aadvark

  9. #9
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    Would love for the press to do there job and ask, "Just how can these 9 men help protect you if you disarm them?"
    "Isn't 9 armed men ready to defend you safer than 9 dead victims, and one leo down?"

    Oh well, as long as the parking authority keeps steeling cars and making everyone mad they have no choice.

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    As a non-attorney lawyer, I was overjoyed to see the dear Lt's comments. Not only are the individual officers guilty, but the Philly PD will bear some of the burden for a pervasive policy and practice of condoning and encouraging violating citizens' rights.

    From what I can determine, Philly cannot deny the validity of non-resident permits, as the reciprocity is done at the state level. Too bad they do not understand that Philly is a subdivision of the state and not a completely soverign entity.

    stay safe.

  11. #11
    Regular Member jahwarrior72's Avatar
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    it is the opinion of Jahwarrior72 that Lt. Fran Healy is *******. you can quote me on that.

  12. #12
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    Angry Philly Cop vs. the law abiding citizen

    The great state of Pennsylvania NEEDS to take charge and tell the city of Philadelphia that the state legislature makes the gun laws NOT the street beat cops.


    They CAN have an opionion BUT they are there to enforce the law NOT make the law. If they want to make the law then they should drop out of the police department and get into congress.

    In addition to owning my own process sering business, I'm also a field supervisor for a security company and most of their sites are in Philly so therefore I have pretty good insight about how the Philadelphia Police Department handles things

    For one, they have a 3 hour response time even though they are 2 blocks away.
    Number two. A good handful are criminals themsleves. For example a few got caught about a month ago by the DEA.
    Number Three. They like to give you an attitude when you ask them for directions
    Example: I had to cover a strike detail with 2 other guards. There were also 2 police officers there. Now I live in Delaware County and don't really hang out in South Philly regularly, so I asked the officers "Excuse me, can yous guys please tell me if there's a Wawa around here?" and one of the cops got an attitude with me and stated "yous guys" the other cop was nice though, he told me where there's a dunkin donuts down the street and so I went there.
    This is just my personal experience and saw on the news, I heard a lot of horror stories from other workers in the security company.

    Bottom line and point:
    Philly needs to start with getting MORE ETHICAL officers on the streets AND go after the REAL criminals and let the law abiding citizen go about their business. PEOPLE NEED GUNS BECAUSE THE POLICE RESPOND AFTER THE FACT.

    I'm not trying to say all philly cops are a**holes, there are PLENTY of good hard working cops in the city of brotherly love. Actually I feel bad for the good cops because it gives them a reputation they have nothing to do with.
    To the few professional police officers: Keep up the good work we need more of you and less like them

    MESSAGE TO OVERZEALOUS LEO'S:

    Your job is to enforce the laws that are actually laws and NOT make them.

    Sorry if this offended anyone. This is just my opinion with some facts.

  13. #13
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    Legal-Loophole

    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    No sweat. If you falsely arrest me or otherwise violate my rights or commit civil torts against me, my right to collect a punishing civil judgment against you comes first and not your ability to pay your mortgage and feed your children.

    And don't make an ass of yourself with the "call a hippie next time" crap.

    • Police have no legal duty to protect individuals.
    • Police have no legal liability when they fail to protect individuals.
    • Police have virtually no physical ability to protect individuals.

    Protect YOURSELF or don't get protected AT ALL. Anything else is a LIE.

    Threatening not to "protect" me from violent crime is as asinine and dishonest as threatening not to "protect" me from an asteroid impact. You've got ZERO legal duty to do either, even if you had the ability, which any thinking adult knows you DON'T.
    Absolutely correct. It has been proven in the Courts, cops are Law Enforcement Officer's, period! They don't owe you anything! Nada! They do whatever it takes to make an arrest!

  14. #14
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    Since LEOs are not legally obligated to protect me, even though my tax dollars pay them, my safety and rights come first in my eyes. Thankfully most of the police in my area are fairly slow in the intelligence and wit department. Citing state law and legal precedent makes them frown with frustration and dumbfounds them into silence.

    Good boy, sit for a treat.

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