What happens in State of Emergency?

Reading the NC stories of the hurricane and state of emergency, and "can't take gun off own property", what is WI's laws concerning this? Anything to worry about?

Nothing to worry about. You've got the US Constitution on your side. That, and I'm sure no city was to face the embarrassment N'awlins did after Katrina. The police force was sued I believe for confiscating firearms.

You can start with Chapter 166 of Wisconsin Statute.

I spent the last two years of my career in radiological emergency management. My primary job was to create reasonable reactor accidents that could hypothetically cause off site release qualifying as a radiological controls emergency. My SLJs were to administer the engineering emergency management group and to maintain our capabilities inventory for the Joint Nuclear Accident Capabilities.

I might suggest taking a look at OathKeepers.org. They have a video posted there of what happened during Katrina.
The purpose of this group is to insure that these actions will never again be taken against Americans in the Future.
But beware of big brother. In Wisconsin, Oxford Federal Penitentiary and Fort McCoy are designated as the local Concentration Camps should marshal law be imposed.

Doug Huffman said:

You can start with Chapter 166 of Wisconsin Statute.

Click to expand...

Yes, you could start with Chapter 166, but it wouldn't do much good since Chapter 166 no longer is in existence.

It was replaced by Chapter 323.

Let's get right to the relevant portion:

323.24 Prohibition against restricting firearms or
ammunition during emergency. A person who is granted
emergency powers under this subchapter may not use those powers
to restrict the lawful possession, transfer, sale, transport, storage,
display, or use of firearms or ammunition during an emergency.

this. taken from AR15.COM

Can Our Government Really Tell Us How Much Food and Supplies We Can Keep?

The short answer is YES, in a roundabout way. Due to numerous discussions questioning the existence of federal anti-hoarding legislation, I wanted to see if such Executive Orders had been written. First and foremost, we do not want to suggest people store items beyond "legal limits" if such limits did exist. Second, we want to separate fact from rumor buzzing around the Internet which has only added to the confusion. This search has yielded no federal legislation aimed directly at prohibiting food storage. But this does not mean "hoarding" is legal, and here's why.

So What Exactly Is An Executive Order?

Executive Orders (EO) have been used by presidents since the days of George Washington. The first EO addressed Washington's normal household expenses which ones were be accepted and paid by the Treasury Department. Pretty innocuous. The FBI was formed under an executive order by Teddy Roosevelt on July 26, 1908. The first time it was used to make a law was in 1916 by President Woodrow Wilson. It was said to be an 'emergency' measure and Congress was encouraged to validate it. They did and now the door was now open to ignore the Constitution. This is the same method used by Franklin Roosevelt in 1933 to close all the banks in the country. Americans were ordered to turn in all their gold to local banks.

The general purpose of an executive order is to provide the President with a mechanism for executing laws passed by Congress, not control of lives. These EOs are issued by the President as directives to agencies responsible for implementing laws.

However, some presidents take Executive Orders too far confusing EO with executive lawmaking. This "rule by executive order" observation was made no clearer than by Paul Begala, a former Bill Clinton aide: "Stroke of the pen. Law of the land. Kind of cool."1

While Begala thought this action "cool", others did not. House Majority Leader Dick Armey said, "With the stroke of a pen, he may have done irreparable harm to individual rights and liberties." He went on to add, "President Clinton seems bent on using his powers until someone says stop. President Clinton is running roughshod over our Constitution."2 NOTE: December 12, 2001, Dick Armey announced retirement at the end of his 2002 term.
Since the U.S. Constitution places responsibility for executing laws in the hands of the President, issuing EOs is an appropriate means of carrying out the responsibilities IF they are within the bounds of the Constitution. President Kennedy, during his short time in office, signed into law 214 Executive Orders. Numerous Kennedy EOs have brought about positive changes for the American people such as:
11063 - Equal Opportunity in Housing
10914 - Food Distribution to Needy Families
11022 - Council on Aging
11925 - Equal Opportunity in Employment
These Kennedy EOs have a distinctly different flavor though aimed at preserving individual rights, not usurping them. Many EOs overstep Constitutional authority and consequently, are an exercise of unconstitutional power.

So Where Do Anti-Hoarding Laws Come In?
These ideas of anti-hoarding legislation may have stemmed from two areas of confusion:
First is from Executive Orders in place dating back to 1939 which Clinton has grouped together under one order, EO #12919 released on June 6, 1994. The following EOs all fall under EO#12919:
10995--Federal seizure of all communications media in the US;
10997--Federal seizure of all electric power, fuels, minerals, public and private;
10998--Federal seizure of all food supplies and resources, public and private and all farms and equipment;
10999--Federal seizure of all means of transportation, including cars, trucks, or vehicles of any kind and total control over all highways, seaports and water ways;
11000--Federal seizure of American people for work forces under federal supervision, including the splitting up of families if the government so desires;
11001--Federal seizure of all health, education and welfare facilities, both public and private;
11002--Empowers the Postmaster General to register every single person in the US
11003--Federal seizure of all airports and aircraft;
11004--Federal seizure of all housing and finances and authority to establish forced relocation. Authority to designate areas to be abandoned as "unsafe," establish new locations for populations, relocate communities, build new housing with public funds;
11005--Seizure of all railroads, inland waterways and storage facilities, both public and private;
11051--Provides FEMA complete authorization to put above orders into effect in times of increased international tension of economic or financial crisis (FEMA will be in control incase of "National Emergency").

These EOs are not aimed at anti-hoarding but rather at seizure or confiscation of items and facilities "to provide a state of readiness in these resource areas with respect to all conditions of national emergency, including attack upon the United States." You'll find most 'seizure' legislation ends with this phrase. These Executive Orders don't define what specifically constitutes a national emergency and maybe this is as it should be. The specifics on hoarding are left up to the individual states.
What Is FEMA's Role?
EO #11051 is interesting; it authorizes FEMA near-total power in times of crisis. There's been lots of discussion on the Internet regarding the excessive control FEMA has been granted and it was pointedly commented upon in July's world premiere movie release of the "X-Files".

FEMA was created by President Carter under Executive Order #12148. Its legal authorization is Title 42, United States Code 5121 (42 USC Sec. 5121) called the "Stafford Act." During activation of Executive Orders, FEMA answers only to the National Security Council which answers only to the President. Once these powers are invoked, not even Congress can intervene or countermand them for six months.

What Clinton, or Reagan, or any other president did when writing an EO, was to direct his Cabinet member(s), in this case FEMA, to take specific action to carry out the directives of the EO. Where Jimmy Carter had created FEMA by Esecutive Order in 1979, Robert Safford took it a step futher and pushed a bill through in 1988 that made it law. This legislation made FEMA a bonafide department like Justice. Where the EO is critical to the USC (United States Code) and Title 50, is in interpreting the law how that department or FEMA, should conduct itself when declaring they will tell the states, national guard, military forces, or whomever, to confiscate extra hoarded food or medical supplies or whatever...

We must also consider any PDD (Presidential Decision Directives) Ok, so who will determine how much food we have in our house - why FEMA of course. And the amount depends on the need of all...not your needs or my needs...but the "welfare" of the the needy.

Bottom line? Clinton delegated authority to FEMA to run the show however it sees fit if he declares a national emergency. Who will determine how much food we can have in our house? FEMA. And the amount depends on the needs of all...not your needs or my needs...but the "welfare" of the needy.

Many people have balked about FEMA's extensive authority, but think about it, what other agency has the manpower to cover and implement aid? As it is, FEMA still does not have the manpower to control every city all over the US in times of crisis. Chances are they would only be dispatched to larger metropolitan areas where more crowd control might be needed. Lots of people suggest darker reasons for their existence, but this site is only addressing anti-hoarding legislation, nothing else.

EO #11051 covering "economic or financial crisis" certainly would have terrorism implications as well. An emergency does not have to be defined as another Hurricane Hugo or massive Midwestern flooding.
State Legislation's Role in Anti-Hoarding
The other area where anti-hoarding confusion might have arisen is state legislation. Most states have chosen to enact their own anti-hoarding laws. That means some states may not have such laws, others do and not all are uniform. However, uniformity of state law is something governors are striving for under the Interstate Compact Agreement. The Compact Agreements, much like Executive Orders for the president, really don't require voters' input. They are law if the legislature doesn't object, much like Congress that has 30 days to object to an EO before it becomes law.
At times of "declared emergencies", each governor cedes (gives over) authority of his/her state to the federal government. When a governor declares it for his state, he becomes the delegated representative of the federal government according to an Interstate Compact Agreement. Bottom line, even though federal legislation does not directly address anti-hoarding, goods can be seized if national circumstances are felt to warrant it whether or not amounts stored are deemed excessive in your state's eyes.
How Can I Find The Legislation for My State?
Since these anti-hoarding laws are not federal in nature, one would need to look at Titles for his/her own state. These statutes should be located under Public Safety laws or titles. For specific URLs go to State Legislation Locator. To locate information for your state, look for laws about:
Blood Typing
Disaster Preparedness
Emergencies
Hoarding
Injections
Martial Law
Militia
National Guard
Public Safety or Public Welfare
State Militia
State Police Force
Hawaii As A Specific Example of Anti-Hoarding
For Hawaii, this information will be found in Title 10 under "Public Safety". It is located after legislation on militias, state guard troops, etc. Then you find the jewel... In Hawaii you are considered a "hoarder" if you have more than one week's provisions on hand BUT you have to dig to uncover this information. Here is a specific example:
"HAWAII REVISED STATUTES REVISED 1997, Title 10:
(1) Prevention of *hoarding, waste, etc. To the extent necessary to prevent hoarding, waste, or destruction of materials, supplies, commodities, accommodations, facilities, and services, to effectuate equitable distribution thereof, or to establish priorities therein as the public welfare may require, to investigate, and any other law to the contrary notwithstanding, to regulate or prohibit, by means of licensing, rationing, or otherwise, the storage, transportation, use, possession, maintenance, furnishing, sale, or distribution thereof, and any business or any transaction related thereto."
Committee Notes? Huh?
In the actual Title document for Hawaii, you will not find the specifics for what length of time constitutes "hoarding" nor an amount. Instead, you must look at the committee notes which describes it as the opinion that one week's supplies per person is considered adequate food provisions. It is not spelled out what those provisions shall consist of or how much is considered "adequate" until you get to the committee notes.
You will probably have to "dig" for the committee notes as well. Lynn Shaffer, our legislative interpreter, explains committee notes this way. "When the legislature agrees that a law or statute is needed to effect certain governmental goals to prohibit or encourage civilians to respond in a particular way, that statute has attached to it (you will see it printed in the law books) what is called "committee notes." The courts, when making a determination of how the statute is to be interpreted and applied to the case before it, looks to "legislative intent" or what was recorded in the committee's notes when the bill was meandering its way through the legislative process."

EOs have not been widely publicized but you can get copies of them. They are all printed in the U.S. Federal Register and have the force of law when activated by a president.









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Katrina Experiances Note this is very long
Found this on Zombiesquad. A great read wrote by Raptor.
http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewt...p?f=32&t=16627

The Story

I live in a suburb of N.O. called Metairie. Parts of it were flooded briefly though a small portion was flooded due to the 17th street canal failure. My home was not flooded and sustained relatively minor damage.

I evacuated my family to Atlanta on Sunday at noon. I listened to the mayor order a mandatory evacuation of the city as I passed Slidell about 30 miles east of the city. My wife was behind me the whole way. The whole world was going west to Houston. I decided at the last minute to head east into the storm’s projected route to avoid the traffic since I calculated I had only 18 hours to escape. I did not want to risk being on the road when it hit.
As it turned out we made a great decision because the traffic was mainly headed west. We momentarily slowed down to 50 mph on parts of the I-10 but for the most part I did not slow down to under 80 mph until we past the contra flow area about 25 miles north of the coast line on I-59. We picked the right window and the right direction. We spent the night in Birmingham since we were tired and drove with a heavy heart to Atlanta the next day. My sister and her family lived there. I got us settled into a hotel. I told my wife to go find 2 furnished corporate apartments for us as we were going to be here a while.

We waited until the last minute due to the reluctance of both my wife and mother to leave. My house is built of reinforced concrete; it is 8 feet off the ground with parking and storage underneath. It has hurricane shutters, a 30 kw diesel generator with 300 gallons of fuel and is on relatively high ground about 5 feet above sea level. I have always stock piled food, water, guns, ammunition, basic medical supplies and basic disaster supplies and consider my self reasonably prepared. I also had a small 16 ft Boston Whaler in the garage.

I shut down my business on Friday at noon after we compleated our much tested hurricane back up plan and sent everyone home early and told them to contact me Saturday and Sunday if they decided to evacuate. My usual hurricane rule was in force for my employees. If you want to evacuate feel free to do so you will not be penalized in any way if you miss work for a couple of days if you evacuated (little did I know that would be 3 weeks before we would gather as even a partial group again). I gave a 2 week pay advance to everyone before they left telling everyone to be safe but to communicate with me, I normally do not do this but Katrina had me spooked.

Katrina of course hit and you know the story carnage, looting, flooding death, etc. Around Thursday after Katrina I was going crazy with worry. My employees had not all checked in. Our office had no communications the whole 504 area code was down. I decided to go back. I left my family back in Atlanta and went back.

I got to my home despite the fact that the city and parish were “sealed off”. I got through unchallenged, the flooding in most of Jefferson had been pumped out. I cranked up the generator and had power HVAC, internet, landline (I could dial out but no one could dial in). I neglected to empty the refrigerator so I did have that mess to clean up. Note a gas mask and chemical gloves make the job easy!
I assessed the damage and secured what little damage was done. The wind caused little damage to the entire city. The flooding is what killed us. I fixed what I could then went to check out other people’s property. I sent digital photos via the internet to my wife in Atlanta who got touch with them and forwarded the pictures.

I found out some friends (private citizens) from Lafayette were down in the city with boats for rescue parties the next day. They had been turned away for some obscure reason. They wound up staying a few days with me to help out with our friends. I was the forward staging area for friends and business associates trying to get back to their businesses.

The generator made life comfortable but it burned copious amounts fuel. My 300 gallons was supposed to last 10 to 12 days but it was only a 7 day supply. I had to drive to Baton Rouge with empty drums to buy diesel. I had plenty of natural gas for the grill, seafood boiler, water heater and dryer but it was useless for the generator. I have since added a smaller 15 kW air-cooled gas powered generator to supplement the diesel powered set. The diesel ran like a champ though for 3 weeks straight. I stopped it twice a day to check the oil and coolant levels and changed the oil and filter once (I had oil only for one filter change!).

I made many forays into the city with friends and family. Some were clandestine and others were overt and authorized. I passed looters actively looting stores and was shot at on at least one occasion. I will never forget one trip I made. I hired 9 off duty police officers to go with me into a flooded area. This officer was an acquaintance and a true blue "Joe Friday" type cop. However, before we left he said “Now if something happens and we shoot someone, we are just going to leave him there ok? Do you understand what I am saying?”
It was clear to me that things like that happened and that is what was done. Why do you think there are so many missing people whose bodies were never found? Look at the ages and sex of the missing people, most were under 35, male and lived in areas subject to the unrest.

The 3 things I remember most about the time was the oppressive heat & sun during the day and pitch black nights and the chaos and uncertainty of the whole situation.

The following is my list of what worked and did not work:


Communications:
Text messaging worked well all through the worst of the incident. A Blackberry proved to be a valuable and useful means to communicate. A pager also worked but was only a one way system. A text message interface to a PC with a cell phone also worked great

Cell phone with different area code can be invaluable. Forward your key telephone numbers to this cell and you can remain in communication. The entire 504 area code was unusable for about 30 days.

CB & FMRS radios were useless in urbania due to significant range limitations. Around the house a cordless phone with a paging function worked better than the FMRS radio, since it would ring when you were wanted.
Marine VHF was useful for local area communication though it is strictly illegal to use it for this purpose. Noting that such use is illegal, a 12 volt unit on a boat in the driveway is good for about a mile to hand held sets. Though hand held sets could get through only if you could see the other person(line of sight). They could also be used in the car on the highway and were useful there since the channels are not used much inland and the squelch function is useful. Be sure to get the VHF units with the ability to use alkaline batteries.

Telephone land lines worked well and in non-flooded areas the telephones land lines never went down. Cable was not robust at and went down early and stayed down very long. DSL since it uses land lines did not go down at all. Satellite dishes were blown away and like cable were inoperative. The internet was invaluable.

Set up routine check in time for all parties as an outside party I surfaced at 9am noon and 6pm to communicate with my wife in Atlanta.

Keep your batteries charged. Have a car adapter, 110 volt adapter, AA adapter, and spare batteries for any critical item. Anytime you see a place to charge them, charge them up!

A TV made a poor news machine at first. AM & FM radios worked well, the internet was more comprehensive, but had a several hour lag time. A spare satellite dish had Dish TV back up and working in no time. A spare dish also had satellite internet up and operating. I recommend satellite TV and internet as long as you have a spare dish.


Lighting - Darkness, Darkness and more darkness!
Post disaster street lights will not work and the place will be dark as dark can be. When there was no moon the darkness was surreal.

Park your cars so that their head lights shine on likely areas of egress to your house or the place you are visiting. Use the remote switch to make the head lights and back up lights go one in the event that you hear someone outside. You can also use car panic switch for a distraction.

Use car battery booster with a 12v to 110v inverter to plug in a 110 volt area light to provide area lighting if your generator is not operational.

Use flood lights sparingly they attract too much attention.

Spotlights with rechargeable batteries were less useful than those which took D cell batteries. The charges could not be relied upon. 12 volt corded spot lights were cheaper and more reliable; of course they need a cord & a separate battery. They can be plugged into the battery booster.

Attempt to create appearance of many more people than you have. A group of 6 to 10 is more likely to thrive than a small group. A person alone is in great danger and should consider leaving.

Flashlights not useful for area lighting, regardless of size & type. Buy only D cell, AA and/or AAA so you need only those batteries. Lanterns are much more useful for area lighting. LED and fluorescent are great inside but Coleman double mantle lanterns dual fuel are great outdoors, but only out doors (keep them away from 5 gallon gas cans). Avoid candles and hurricane lamps, the light is poor for candles and both bring heat and more importantly fire risk into the house. All open flame of any kind should be kept only outside, but away for the gas cans!

Keep a low profile
Be able to establish bonafides with a picture ID with your company name and address work as well as a letter on corporate letterhead, notarized and corporate seal on it.

A white pickup truck with a corporate logo and people inside dressed in PPE will be the key to transportation. Make sure it has a sign on it, magnetic signs with business name work well.

Impersonating a responder is illegal but impersonating a business is not, use the term safety guy or personnel guy. These folks are always in and out and nobody either hates them or really needs them so you will not get drafted by the locals.

Personal Morale and Stress
Cleaning yourself up and putting on clean clothes is a good morale booster. Washing clothes is a pain but it is important to have clean clothes available. As long as the water is clean and not murky or cloudy you can use it to clean clothes in a washing machine.

If you are the leader act like one. Express concern about your people whether you give a rat’s ass or not about them. They must think you care about them and will help them, it helps if you are sincere, but even if you are not, ******* pretend to be sincere, and your life may depend on it!

Get lots of rest at night. The night is the worst part it can be scary and disorienting.

Water gets boring so have something like Gatorade mix or tea.

Keep a positive attitude and a smile on your face! Your mood is contagious.

Heat saps strength, stamina & morale. Stay out of the sun, cool and hydrated. Make sure everybody has enough water and is drinking it, not just holding on to it. Read about heat exhaustion and heat stroke, know the symptoms, and act fast if you think the person is being affected by the heat.

Do not underestimate emotion of seeing a beloved or even familiar place ruined. Several cops committed suicide during the first 60 days; do not underestimate the level of stress involved.

Always have someone awake 24/7. Set up shifts to ensure all get adequate rest and the group is covered by someone awake.


Fire is a hazard and a real possibility especialy if you have a bunch of 5 gallon gas cans sitting around. Have a fire watch and remember you cannot call the fire department or the EMS. There were instances of unoccupied houses catching fire and setting neighboring house on fire. A 24 hour a day fire watch could save your life.

Smoke alarms in the halls outside bedrooms and Carbon monoxide alarms in every bedroom and other strategic points are a must! If you can afford a generator you can afford carbon monoxide alarms in every bedroom. Do not run a portable generator anywhere near the house or if you do not have working carbon monoxide detectors in the bedrooms.


Fuel & Power
Always have enough fuel in a vehicle that can carry your group to a safe point without refueling. Always have a plan to get out.

Spare fuel in 5 gallons can is dangerous; store it outside in a shady spot away from housing. Hide it because if you do not, it will get requisitioned.

Diesel was almost impossible to find but gas was easy

Consider a tri fuel generator and hook the Gen up to natural gas (NG). NG remained on in most un-flooded sections but failed in flooded areas. A tri-fuel generator can use gasoline if NG is not available. Using NG eliminates many problems associated with obtaining & storing fuel.

Generators are noisy and will disturb you, people nearby and attract unwanted attention. Find someway to keep the sound down. If you have a portable gas operated generator retrofit a car muffler (search the internet for article) to it and build a sound box of some kind. You want the noise signature to be as quite as possible. See this link:

http://www.alpharubicon.com/altenergy/gensetquiet.htm

Ideally have a large one permanently installed with quality sound deading material around it as I did.

Other ways to keep its noise to a minimum.
Dig a hole put the generator in it and cover it with plywood
Build a sandbag berm around it cover the berm with plywood
Enclose it in a building not connected to the house, route the exhaust outside!

Have an electrician come and put a manual disconnect switch so you can hook the generator to the house. You can do something as simple as putting in the disconnect switch and providing a 50 amp 220 plug so you ca hook up a portable generator to the house circuits. Avoid having a stand alone generator in the back yard with extension cords. Plan ahead and do it right! Also to keep the peace with your neighbor plan on running 1 or 2 15 amp circuits to their house(s) if they do not have a generator. That is enough to run a fridge, lights & fans. Or a fridge and a small window A/C.


Weapons
The type and quantity is less important than training and proficiency. All those debates about which is best is a meaningless discussion. The best one to have is one you have in your hand now. Make sure you can use proficiently, including takeing it apart and repairing it. make sure you can hit a target at 35 meters one handed with either the left or right hand. Your arm or hand may be injured and this skill may save your life. Stop debating what is best settle on what works for you and spend the time training with what you have.

Do not openly brandish weapons the Nat'l Guard & cops will take them away despite any laws protecting you.

Have spares so that if cops take them away you have others.

Be prepared to be forcibly removed for your premises and leave your pets or have your pets killed in front of you!

NG & Police are not necessarily helpful, to be trusted or your friends. Trust yourself and keep a low profile avoid confrontations be respectful and friendly (not subservient) when they are unavoidable. Obey their instructions (at least when they are around) if possible and not counter to your goal. Never confront them or actively or violently resist them, you will lose and become just another unidentified body found in the rubble.

Cash, Documents and Commerce:
A Good friend maker is cold soft drinks – trade hot for cold if you can

Image important documents and store on a flash drive or on line with an on line provider such as AOL.

Drivers license, passport, social security card, birth certificate, marriage certificate, Insurance policies, vaccination/medical records for family & pets should be imaged and kept electronically in a thumb drive.

Use an online bank and have multiple accounts. Keep multiple credit cards with a zero balance.

You need at least $1,000 cash on hand more is always better but do not carry all split it up and use credit cards wherever possible. Keep it in small bills like $5, $10 & $20 along with a credit card.

Take photos of your insured property that are no more than 2 years old use a digital camera and store the photos in multiple places.

Any photo albums, documents, or similar such things can be digitalized so that if the original is destroyed you at least have a copy. Look around your house and see what falls into that category. It is amazing how much you lose when you are looking at just a house slab.

Back up your data in multiple places and set out a contingency plan for your business. We use nothing but laptops and have contracted with an off site server to store all of our data files. Everybody can use a virtual private network to set up wherever we may finally stop.

Phone forwarding malfunctioned so all our lines did was to ring when they did not get a system busy. Have a contingency plan to notify all customer of a number change or arrange with the telephone company to use a trunk forwarding service.

We set up a toll free number and manned it with a small staff to disseminate contact info. Emails worked fine as did text messages. Web sites also worked well as a means to disseminate telephone numbers.


Looting. Looters and requisitioning
Police will loot. It is called requisitioning. They will take your spare gasoline, supplies, ammunition, first aid kits, ice, water, guns and even your vehicle! They are worse than looters in that they have the force of law behind them.

Avoid looting parties they tend to be numerous and armed. If you join them, watch your back and go only with a group and then stick together. Take only what you need and make restitution when you can do so. Even when you need it looting is wrong.

The police & NG will be hot, tired scared and in grumpy mood! Avoid them at all costs they will be well armed, better trained and more likely to shoot you than the looters. Always approach them slowly with your hands visible and in a non-threatening manner. Politeness (though not submission like you are guilty of something) and a smile on your face and a comment like “boy am I glad to see you guys, thanks for the help”. If you are unsure of the situation extend your hand in a handshake. Their actions will tell volumes as to their intent. Never curse them, do offer them a cold coke or water. If you do not have a cold drink say I would offer you guys in but I don’t have one. They are bribable also!

The USCG were the best guys, they were most useful, professional and least dangerous (as long as you were not hostile to them) the worst were the National Guard units and local PD. They were stressed out lost their homes separated from loved ones etc. They were heavy armed and dangerous. No offense intended to any member of these units but that is my observations.

When you travel, travel in groups. No fewer than two, four in 2 vehicles are better. If you leave your vehicle(s) make sure someone or preferably 2 people stay with it (them).

Have prearranged sign and counter sign for the group, include a trouble sign and counter sign. Do not shout everybody and anybody’s name use a signal when concerned or needing help. You do not have to be silly about it but a shout of “hey Mr. Murphy” is a whole more innocuous than “hey George and Louis there are five guys coming towards me”. In the latter you have conveyed to the party coming at you that there are only 3 of you and they will be coming shortly. On the other hand if you shout “ hey Mr. Murphy” while looking at the group and waving in a friendly like manner they may assume that you are addressing them and waving at them and not calling your buddies to come outside and help. It may just give you the edge in that situation.

Look out for other people's pets, save the ones you can. Bring food and water for them, that may be the only food and water they will get for several days.

Be very careful avoid any injuries of any kind. If you are injured, cut, get a blister, etc treat it aggressively even a simple scratch in a disaster zone can be life threatening.

Get vaccination for hepatitis, tetanus and anything else you can talk your MD into giving you. Same with dentistry.

Do not take supplies from the Red Cross or others unless you or someone you know truly needs them. They are limited and others in need may do without because you wanted something you may want but did not really need it. I witnessed a single mother with baby and toddler have to go without when an “alpha” male took water meant for her even though he did not need it. Might does not make right.

Be compassionate, but do not be silly. Help if you can but be wary sometimes sympathy targets (old people, disabled people, kids and women) are used by looters as bait.

Do not be in the disaster area if you can avoid it!



Food, Water & Ice:
Ice is a very valuable commodity when the temperature is 95 and the humidity is 100%. Keep some handy to trade or barter for favors. Make it at home in the freezer.

Safe, potable water is critical you cannot have too much of it on hand
Water is either safe or not. If you have the slightest doubt about the water, it is not safe to drink it!

Unsafe water from the tap can be used for flushing toilets and washing clothes. It can also be used for washing you, but do not drink it and keep it away from your eyes, nose and mouth. But never ever use it to clean eating utensils. However, unsafe water and a 5% to 10% solution of bleach can be used for cleaning dishes with soap as long as the final rinse is in boiled water (be sure the water has cooled and add 2% to 3% bleach to the rinse water).

To make clear water safe boil the water for 10 to 20 minutes at a rolling boil! You can also add chlorine before boiling it if you are really nervous. Be careful and let the water stand at least an hour to avoid burning yourself. Boil as much as you can at one time because it is a pain in the ass. Keep the pot covered and the water is boiling and cooling Store in a CLEAN container. Used but clean 2 liter soft drink bottles are perfect for storing boiled water (but wait till it cools to pour it!).

Potable Water should be used as much as possible:
Example water used for cooking rice and spaghetti can be reused for cleaning the pots and dishes.
You can attach a large activated charcoal filter to an outside water hose to filter water that you boil for drinking. A counter top water filter picture or a facet mounted filter is better than nothing, but do not rely upon it to make the water safe even boiling may or may not remove toxic chemicals in the water. Use bottled water from a known source if at all possible for all drinking, washing and bathing.

An outside propane burner with a large boiling pot will make quick work of producing many gallons of safe drinking water without he heat and humidity in the house. This boiling pot can also be used to sanitize plates, silverware and pots.

Water in a pinch can be made safer by filtering it and adding a small amount of Clorox or iodine tablets to the water. Murky or smelly water should not be used for anything, if at all possible!

If you must use this type of water use a cloth to coarsely filter the water (then look at the residue then if you are still thirsty), add Clorox or iodine then run it though a water purifier and finally boil the residual for at least 20 minutes. I would avoid it all costs however.

You may be tempted to use the dishwasher and put it on heated water and the sanitize setting, but do not unless you can pipe the dishwasher to use boiled water. It is just not worth the risk! Plan on hand washing and sanitizing the dishes yourself! You can rinse the plate to get the food residue off with the running un-boiled water before washing them, but wash them with boiled water, if possible dip them in a mild bleach solution in the rinse cycle and hand dry.

Paper towels, plates and deposable knives and forks work very well and many times are better than real china and silverware. Have lots of paper towels, garbage bags and deposable stuff on hand.

Garbage disposal is a problem. Plan on bringing it to the dump your self. Sanitation is important and garbage stinks after a week in the sun! When you bring it to the dump put it on the trailer; do not put it in the car or trunk you will never get the stink out!

Water used for brushing your teeth can be reused for cleaning the sink.

Note you can freeze bottle of unsafe water for ice, just label it as unsafe!

Food is important to morale! Cook it and present it well! Sit down together and eat together.


Simple Menus are Important
Spaghetti & meatballs
Red beans rice & meat (sausage, hamburger, chicken)
Chicken and rice
Hamburgers and macaroni & cheese
Scrambled eggs, grits and toast
Steak and canned veggies
Jambalaya & meat of any kind

Use MRE only for lunch or last resort. Everybody sit down and eat together! At least once a day.

Vehicle:
4wd was not important but was useful mainly due to the higher ground clearance it afforded.

Bring rope to tie to branches to move them. Make sure the vehicle has auxiliary storage like a roof rack, a roof cargo carrier , a trailer hitch ”back porch” or have a trailer. Anything that you can use to carry additional bulky cargo, like roofing shingles, gas, clothes, food water, etc.

I used my boat as means to carry cargo such as garbage and fuel. It had 2 -18 gallon gas tanks so filled up those tanks and put 3 -55 gallon drums in the boat. Use what you have.

Make sure your vehicle is in good shape a broken fan belt, bad tire, leaking water pump or battery with a dead cell is useless and dangerous.

Be sure to have a can of fix a flat, 12 volt air compressor, battery booster, tire plug kit, flash light with spare batteries and a plug in 12 volt spot light (they are cheaper and more reliable than those needing a charge) as well as basic tools like a screwdriver, pliers and crescent wrench are invaluable. A 12volt to 110 volt inverter (no more than 100 watts to avoid blowing fuses or worse a fusible link), small first aid kit and rope will also be invaluable. A 110 volt trouble light with a 25 foot cord to plug into the inverter will serve multiple purposes of light and power; just do not overload the inverter. Be sure to have a spare quart of oil, brake fluid, ATF fluid and antifreeze, (it does not have to be in the car) you will not be able to find it! Plan on having a lot of flat tires from debris, nails and screws.

The cargo area if not “hoseable” should be covered in plastic to prevent the spread of contaminants.

A cheaper car or pick up truck will attract a whole lot less negative attention than a blingmobile! Park the Mercedes and Lexus drive the pickup truck! A plain white pickup truck with a corproate logo is basically invisible in a city.


Tools
Basic tools like a socket set, wrench, screwdrivers, etc. A cordless electric screwdriver and drill will also save you a lot of energy and sweat.
Other useful tools:
Crow bar large & small
Pry bar
Claw hammer
Axe
Hatchet
Small sledge hammer and small, medium and large wedges
PPE – very important! Hard hat, safety glasses, gloves leather & latex respirators or face mask, steel toed shoes WITH steel soles!
Large bolt cutters
Gas chainsaw (nice but not required unless you live in a wooded area) I used the rope and car to pull large branches out of my way. A tree hand saw is just as useful and less costly in an urban area. In a wooded area but 2 chainsaws!
Tarps several sizes are good you can always trade them if you do not need them.
An electric sawzall is particularly useful assuming you have a generator.
Chain and padlocks will always come in handy.
Electric extension cords get several and buy the thick contractors grade. Also a power strip with a surge suppressor for each cord will be useful.
Tape, electrical & duct
Spray paint – white, orange & black for signs, warnings & messages
Preprinted signs like Looters will be shot are not as useful as handmade signs since the preprinted ones may indicate no one is around. Also date any spray painted signs so people know it is up post disaster.

Boats in Urban Settings and Flood Water
Boats on city street s are not normal. There are all kind of hazards that you will encounter such that even the oldest of salts will be in a challenging environment.
Operate at idle or slow speeds they will be signs, wires trees shrubs, debris and many other things that will destroy or damage an out drive. Better to hit something at a slow speed.Trim the engine up to reduce your draft. Travel in pairs and maintain radio watches Be wary of manhole covers if you are in the water. The covers may be gone and you may fall in the hole! There are ditches and various other obstacles that are not apparent, do not walk in the water if at all possible. Always wear a PFD even an inflatable one is better than nothing.

Navigation will be difficult since road signs may be obscured and your GPS will likely have a nautical chart rather than I-10 on it! Have someone on the boat who knows the area.

Power lines may still be energized, so stay away from them, do not touch them!

Rescued people are not always grateful to be rescued. They may be in shock, terrified, disoriented and/or potentially dangerous. Always have at least one other you can trust in the boat with you. You contrite on steering and he/she concentrates on the people in the boat. Never assume people can swim, provide and PFD for all and make them wear it; if nothing else it will be reassuring for them. If you encounter hostile people, exit stage left ASAP. Always know how to get out of an area quickly!

Do not fool around in flood waters! They are nasty and disgusting and dangerous. Do not ford the water in your vehicle if you can avoid it. Most vehicles can get their drive train damaged by as little as a foot of water. The vehicle will also kick up wakes into peoples homes. The people in the house may object violently to you flooding their already damaged house. If you do ford water do so at an idle speed and paying close attention to water depth. If in doubt back up to higher ground! Judging the water depth is deceptive since cars have different heights. Consider using the sidewalk, lawns or road median to keep at least part of your vehicle high enough not to flood.


Elderly, Infirm, Pets and Kids:
None belong in a disaster zone and should be evacuated ASAP. Pets will be destroyed at the slightest bit of inconvenience to the authorities! Chip your pet and evacuate them. Keep their shots current and board them with friends families or a boarding facility. There were numerous instances of pets summarily destroyed for a variety of reasons including simply spite. Two deputies in St Bernard parish are facing charges for shooting pets for no apparent reason. The incidents were captured on videotape, despite this, they would never have been charged if left to the local officials. One can only imagine what else went on and was not uncovered. An elderly women recounted to me her story about how refused to leave her home because her pet could not come with her. The police officer simply shot her beloved pet in front of her said now the problem is solved and put the woman in a boat. I heard from others in different areas that they were forced to abandon their pets under threat of physical threat. Some of these pets survived others did not. In a truly bad situation I can assume this attitude will extend to children and non-able bodied people as well. In fact in war time this type of behavior has been documented in various parts of the world

Evacuation issues:
Leave early or Late – A tough call it depends on your circumstances and how likely your risk is to be vs. that of staying put. Just do not wait too long. allow 12 hours to get to safety!

Which route? – be flexible and do not be afraid to use back routes, speed is less important than steady progress away from danger, look for gas at ½ a tank, search diligently for gas at ¼ of a tank, look for a safe place stop at 1/8 of a tank. Do not run out of gas! If you have to use your reserve tank find shelter nearby and wait until it is safe. Gas gives you options, no gas leaves you vulnerable. If necessary abandon one vehicle and strip all fuel from it. Discard stuff in the following order (if necessary) goods to make things fit: magazines, Clothes, ice chests, food, spare tire, tools, adults, children & elderly, pets. Never discard water or fuel. If someone has be left behind (at a safe place obviously) leave two people and give them cash & credit card, water, cell phone and set an alternate rally point.

If possible travel in pair’s evacuation is incredibly dangerous. Your car could break down and leave you and your loved ones stranded with an impending disaster. 2 cars capable of carrying all is the safest way to travel. Do not rely on the police to assist, they will be busy and the phrase SOL comes to mind.

What to bring: see the above list but include at least 5 gallons of gasoline, food (simple stuff like bread and peanut butter) and at least 1 gallon of water for every two people. Be sure to carry the gas on top of the vehicle on the roof rack or the back porch. It will make everyone nauseous otherwise. Have maps, a laptop with an internet card to stay in touch with the outside world and a GPS is very useful. FRMS & CB radios do work well here. but are obnoxious to have on all the time. The driver is to drive and nothing else but drive and keep an eye outside the vehicle. The front seat passenger is to navigate and communicate. The navigator is responsible for keeping track of the locataion of both vehicles, nearby alternate routes and maintains communication with the other vehicle. Back seat passengers can be utilized to find accommodations, gas and other necessary information via cell phone as well as tend to needs of the other passengers or driver. A 12 volt TV will also provide invaluable news and they can monitor the TV. The reason for this assignment of tasks is to keep everybody occupied. Even if the driver really has to do all of the above tasks by getting the others involved in the tasks, they will be less likely to annoy the driver.

The traffic will be moving very slowing 10 to 20 mph is not unusual, so be patient and do not plan on being able to get off the highway for anything for at least 5 to 8 hours!
A “piss bucket” is absolutely vital. For males a simple 32 oz cup WITH A LID, a 2 liter bottle and a funnel or a wide mouth 1 to 2 liter juice bottle will work nicely. Women may use the same thing but with a funnel. Be sure to have a towel handy! Do not dump it on the road unless you are traveling very slowly (which is normally the case) keep it sealed in Ziploc bag in between uses to avoid messes. Kids especially preteen girls may pose special problems due to modesty issues. Disposable diapers are one other solution. Talk to those involved. It will be a problem and stopping will not be an option, assuming you can pull over.

Destinations:
The farther the better yet the closer the easier. Where you go is up to your budget. I suggest some place with family and friends to help you assimilate in case the stay is a long one. For stays over 1 month a furnished corporate apartment is generally a better deal and more comfortable and normal than a hotel room. Family and friends are an important plan around this.

Evacuation by Air:
This is the safest and easiest way to evacuate but you cannot take much with you. This is generally best you have a house elsewhere of you have small children, elderly or infirm people to remove. When you leave be sure to leave your car parked at an inside garage and at least one level above the ground floor. Do not count on this method since flights are generally booked well in advance do not count on it unless you own your own plane.

Personal gear:
You should always carry the following:
A butt pack with flashlight, pistol, reloads, cigarette lighter, pepper spray, leatherman tool, latex gloves, small hand sanitizer and digital camera, spare batteries, spare data card. The camera should be kept in a baggy to protect it. Why the camera? So you can show others what you saw and get their input into situations.
Water at least one bottle
Clean towel, spare shoes, spare clothes, and wading boots. I typically wore a jumpsuit and running shoes. I changed my shoes to steel toed boots when I got out of the car and again when I got back in.
A hat and sunscreen were also very handy.

Sanitation:
Wash your hands wash your face with a clean towel before you go into the house if you have been out on “expedition”
Hand sanitizer and plain old alcohol work great.
Thick Plastic/chemical resistant gloves as well as latex gloves to protect yourself from chemicals like chlorine.
Leave your shoes out side and do not track any crud in side.

Wear a jumpsuit with shorts underneath. Shuck the jumpsuit and put it in a garbage bag along with any towels used. Leave your boots outside. Everything dirty goes in the washing machine. Anything recovered from the flood water stays out side. Set up a hose and bucket with dishwashing liquid to clean off anything nasty.

Shotgun said:

Yes, you could start with Chapter 166, but it wouldn't do much good since Chapter 166 no longer is in existence. It was replaced by Chapter 323.

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So it has, thank you very much.

It'll be a little difficult, in my current frame of mind, to spend another $100 for the statutes up dated, "pearls before swine" and all that.

I note that, like Local Regulation of Firearms, it is left to the public to enforce this prohibition. And reviewing § 66.0409, I see that "preemption" is descriptive of it and not prescriptive of firearms ordinances.

what happens during a state of confusion? this country has been in that for several years now.

Doug Huffman said:

I note that, like Local Regulation of Firearms, it is left to the public to enforce this prohibition.

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Let me get this straight first. Are you saying that there is no criminal penalty for violating either statute? (66.0409 and 323.24)

Glock34,Thanks for that post by the way, that was a good read, very forthcoming as to what could happen and what people will go through. Really make you think about how prepared you are for such a situation.

Shotgun said:

Let me get this straight first. Are you saying that there is no criminal penalty for violating either statute? (66.0409 and 323.24)

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To start with, neither one is in Wisconsin's criminal code. Without looking, neither one is in the schedule of criminal penalties.

Doug Huffman said:

To start with, neither one is in Wisconsin's criminal code. Without looking, neither one is in the schedule of criminal penalties.

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Okay, let's think about whether it might be covered by 946.12(2).

Any thoughts?

Shotgun said:

Okay, let's think about whether it might be covered by 946.12(2). Any thoughts?

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Sure, an individual, as 'officer', does not legislate. The people do by vote of their elected board. Beyond that, Home Rule and Village Powers.

Individuals attempt to write tickets and confiscate guns under preempted and invalid ordinances. Individuals give orders confiscate or restrict guns during times of emergency. Individuals vote to enact ordinances that are prohibited under state law. If these individuals happen to be public official/employees, then I don't see why this statute would not apply to their actions.

Sounds good to me. Have at it. Remember that the state only can bring criminal charges, the DA or his grand jury.

946.18 Misconduct sections apply to all public officers.
Sections 946.10 to 946.17 apply to public officers, whether
legally constituted or exercising powers as if legally constituted.

J.Gleason said:

Glock34,Thanks for that post by the way, that was a good read, very forthcoming as to what could happen and what people will go through. Really make you think about how prepared you are for such a situation.

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Your welcome. I know it was a LONG read, but it covered things we might not think about. Have a good weekend.