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Thread: ATF says not to sell guns to Hispanics.

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    ATF says not to sell guns to Hispanics.

    http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=38088

    In Federal District Court on July 20, 2010, the ATF won a conviction from an Austin jury that defies logic and reason. In a trial before Federal Judge Sam Sparks, government lawyers conceded Texas resident Paul Copeland did not know his buyer was an illegal alien, but the jury they should convict him anyway because he "had reasonable cause to believe" he was selling to an illegal alien because the two men and a boy who were present at his table at the time of the sale: 1) were Hispanic, 2) spoke Spanish, and 3) wore cowboy clothing. And the jury did as asked. Assistant U.S. Attorney Jennifer Freel acted as lead prosecutor in the case.

    Mr. Copeland is a 56 year old Cedar Creek resident and Vietnam veteran who liked to buy, sell, and trade firearms as a hobby. On January 16, however, he had the misfortune to sell a handgun to Leonel Huerta Sr., who spoke both English and Spanish. Huerta Sr. negotiated his purchase from Copeland in English, showing Copeland his Texas Driverís License. At Copelandís trial Huerta admitted on the witness stand, that he is in the country illegally, (Huerta Sr. had previously admitted this fact to Immigration & Customs Enforcement (ICE) Special Agent Leo Buentello). ATF Agent Shawn Kang claimed he saw Huerta later hand off the gun to Aviles. Despite these admissions, Huerta Sr. was never arrested, charged, or deported. Instead, his presence at the gunshow was used to entrap an American citizen into an unwitting violation of a federal gun control law. Huerta Sr., who is a resident of the City of Austin, appeared as a witness at the trial, admitted he was in the country illegally before federal prosecutors and a federal judge, yet he was allowed to leave the courtroom under his own power. To date Huerta Sr. has not been prosecuted for his purchase, possession, or disposition of the handgun he bought from Copeland, while Copeland is now a convicted felon.

    "Instead of busting the illegal alien for buying, they bust the citizen for selling," commented Paul Velte, attorney and founder of Peaceable Texans for Firearms Rights, a gun-owners rights advocacy group from Austin. Velte asked, "who was in a better position to know the buyerís immigration status, the buyer or the seller?" He also said, "What happened to Paul Copeland should enrage all Americans. The Federal Government is using illegal aliens to entrap citizens lawfully exercising their right to sell firearms. The illegal alien walks free, but the citizen gets convicted. The same government charged with controlling immigration is the one using illegal immigrants to attack its own citizens. Does this make any sense? It makes no sense unless the purpose is to discourage attendance at gunshows and frighten citizens from selling their firearms to other citizens."

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Oh god! Who the hell wears cowboy style clothing in Texas? THEY MUST BE ILLEGALS!

    /insert snide comment about Obama and calling Arizona racist here
    Last edited by Jack House; 09-03-2010 at 02:23 PM.

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    I love the irony of the Feds saying that state and local authorities cannot ask about immigrations status, but a citizen who sells a gun to a Hispanic who speaks Spanish, wears cowboy clothes and has a Texas driver's license needs to verify it.

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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    WOW. That's INSANE!!!! now some guys life is ruined because the ATF went after him for no apparent reason. I don't know how those ^%@$&%@*()*&@%$ sleep at night.

    Austin is a 'sanctuary city', WTF!! The government is out of control, what a nightmare for this guy, i hope he appealed.
    Last edited by VAopencarry; 09-03-2010 at 02:55 PM.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flb_78 View Post
    I love the irony of the Feds saying that state and local authorities cannot ask about immigrations status, but a citizen who sells a gun to a Hispanic who speaks Spanish, wears cowboy clothes and has a Texas driver's license needs to verify it.
    Winner!

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    1) were Hispanic, 2) spoke Spanish, and 3) wore cowboy clothing.
    That describes half the population of the Valley, most of whose ancestors lived north of the Rio Grande before the Texians ever cross the Red River.

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    The law says you can't knowingly sell to a prohibited person (illegal aliens fall into that category).

    This conviction is exactly the same as convicting someone because they "should have known" they're dealing with a prohibited person because it's: A) a guy whose wife is sporting a black eye; B) a Rasta wearing dreds and sporting a shirt with a big cannabis leaf on it; C)... oh, hell, just insert any stereotype you want.

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    That describes half the population of the Valley, most of whose ancestors lived north of the Rio Grande before the Texians ever cross the Red River.
    And two and three describes everyone else in Texas.

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    It's bad enough that the feds want to go after a citizen , who followed the law , but the scariest part to me is that they had 12 people stupid enough to convict him.

    It is sad to live through these times and see what this country is becoming .

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    I see the Obama cronies gearing up with ammunition to debate the nonexistant gun show loophole.

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    wtf.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
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    I think this demonstrates that the Obama administration is truly anti-Liberty (not that they haven't amply demonstrated this before).

    While claiming (falsely) that 1078 will force officers to profile folks who look Mexican and speak Spanish, the government will require private citizens who sell guns to do precisely that. The Obama administration doesn't care a whit about profiling Hispanics, they just want to appear to care so that they can court that voting bloc.

    While claiming (falsely) that the Obama administration is pro-gun, they take actions that criminalize routine behavior by gun-owners, making owning, selling, and buying guns more difficult--especially for folks who look or sound Mexican.

    Now THIS is what profiling looks like.

    That's OK. Those in power seem to be oblivious as to how actions like this make them look. They just keep doing what they are doing with total disregard to what the American people think about it. They just keep racking up votes against them from folks who are fed up.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    No comprendo Los Federales.

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    Campaign Veteran Nelson_Muntz's Avatar
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    Funny, the feds don't prosecute businesses for 'not profiling hispanics' before they hire them. Selective enforcement.

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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Has anyone confirmed the facts of this story? I find every reference I find is from the same press release from Peaceable Texans for Firearms Rights.

    Not that I doubt it, but circular reporting raises my suspicions.

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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    No comprendo Los Federales.
    Dont you mean, No Comprendo Las Federales
    Last edited by Jeff Hayes; 09-04-2010 at 09:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphan View Post
    Dont you mean, No Comprendo Las Federales
    Don't you mean, "Don't you mean, 'No comprendo Las Federales'?"

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphan View Post
    Dont you mean, No Comprendo Las Federales
    Is Federale? Feminine in Spanish?

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    Regular Member TOF's Avatar
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    Isn't it against the law to racialy or sexualy profile??
    If you woke up breathing, congratulations! You get another chance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOF View Post
    Isn't it against the law to racialy or sexualy profile??
    We have become a nation of men, and not of laws.

    Let's throw as many of President Obama's followers out of office as we can in 2010, and the rest in 2012.

    Elections have consequences.

  22. #22
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    We have become a nation of men, and not of laws.

    Let's throw as many of President Obama's followers out of office as we can in 2010, and the rest in 2012.

    Elections have consequences.
    Let's throw as many (R)'s out too and fill it with folks who believe in the constitution and liberty.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Let's throw as many (R)'s out too and fill it with folks who believe in the constitution and liberty.
    If only.

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    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    I want to know why the goofball judge didn't throw out the conviction and find him not guilty. It's quite apparent that he had no intention of selling to a prohibited person. He did check for Texas residency proof. His Texas driver's license should have done the trick.

    I also wonder if maybe the BATFE didn't help him to acquire a Texas driver's license so they could actually pull off the sting.

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    Founder's Club Member PrayingForWar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Let's throw as many (R)'s out too and fill it with folks who believe in the constitution and liberty.
    The R's swept the elections in 2002, all running on "right wing" platforms. Then they blew off those principles, and no one paid attention. Then here comes Obozo and his pinko circus in 2008 promising "moderation". What is truly astounding is that anyone believed it in the first place, but I certainly hope that THIS TIME, when the R's sweep the elections that they're held to those principles. I hope people continue to pay attention throught the election cycles and dump any politician who says one thing, then does another.

    The republican party would not have lost in 2006 or 2008 if they actually stood for the principles they ran on. The Dems ran on those same issues, remember all the howling and gnashing of teeth over the deficit, the patriot act, and out of control spending? Notice NONE of it went away if it didn't get worse?
    If you ladies leave my island, if you survive recruit training. You will become a minister of death, PRAYING FOR WAR...

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