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Thread: looking for some advice from the more experienced.

  1. #1
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    looking for some advice from the more experienced.

    First off, I am still rather new to OCDO and OC in general, but I have been following for a while now. I have been OC'ing since I turned 21 and was able to buy from an FFL, before then, I didn't know much about firearm rights although I come from a family of avid hunters, paper killers, military personnel, and LEO's. I am going to be 22 this month and started a family young. A few years ago, I realized what the REAL world was like, and now my BIGEST fear is not being able to protect my son and my wife. I had what I thought was an OK collection for a new gun owner just a few months ago, then I got laid off. Wife went to full time and I went on to become a stay at home father which brought in less than desirable income. Wife wanted a newer car and we needed to downgrade from a house to an apartment, so I elected to sell my small collection that consisted of an xd45 service, p95DC, pt140 pro, mossberg 500a and a 10/22 to pay for some of the down payment on both. I religiously OC'd my XD or p95, but now I'm left with nothing to defend my family with. Things have been getting better financially, but I can't convince my wife to let me buy another firearm for protection. I've given her the "spare tire" and "fire extinguisher" speech and also reminded her of the man killed at circle k in gilbert I believe (thug went in to steal beer and hit a woman on the way out, her husband stepped up and got shot in the chest) and the rancher that was murdered on his own property by an illegal, but nothing I say seems to make her think that maybe, just maybe we should have protection for ourselves. She came from a family that taught her that guns are evil, guns kill, only LEO and military should have guns, and I
    came from a family that put in for elk every year as a group, went to the range often, heard stories from 3 uncles one of which was a former US NAVY SEAL and an LA county sheriff deputy that left to work for Blackwater and passed in iraq (I posted 2 links hear for articles about him after reading a post which stated that "seals were over rated" on a different thread on OCDO" one who was a marine and one which retired from the airforce. Doesn't matter what I say, she seems to think about it for about five minutes and brush it off her shoulder into the unimportant pile. She does not understand that I am NOT paranoid, but that I know I am unprepared if the need for defense should show itself. Any thoughts, advice or personal experience with this sort of problem would be greatly appreciated.
    Thank you all in advance, Doug

  2. #2
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    Have you ever taken her to the range? I know you are not in the best situation financially, but if you want her to be okay with firearms, you need to involve her a lot more with your hobby shooting before she will feel okay with the idea of using a firearm as a defensive tool. Take her to an indoor range that allows to you rent pistols and the like, and have her shoot what she wants. See what she thinks. If she enjoyed herself, you and her could pick out a good home defense firearm together. If she thinks firearms are dangerous, maybe you should tell her that you'd get a safe. You need to think from her perspective and try to correct any issues she might have.

    I understand if she has no interest in going to the range with you, I really don't know what else I can suggest.

    Good luck, I hope you'll be OCing soon.
    Last edited by Ltp0wer; 09-04-2010 at 05:19 PM.

  3. #3
    Regular Member TOF's Avatar
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    Sometimes you have to do what you have to do.
    If you woke up breathing, congratulations! You get another chance.

  4. #4
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    Buy a gun, tell her if she doesn't like it too bad. There is no compromise, she will either deal with it or not, and she obviously has with your prior gun ownership.

    Guess that should have been a subject of conversation before you two started doing the marriage and family thing huh?

    Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

    Clyde

  5. #5
    Regular Member mFonz77's Avatar
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    now my BIGEST fear is not being able to protect my son and my wife
    Then you need to buy your firearm. Intentions, if not acted upon, won't do any good.

    Wife wanted a newer car
    So she is allowed to satisfy her wants but you are not allowed to satisfy your needs?

    Sounds like kenpoprofessor hit the nail on the head. Gun ownership is persecuted by many. I have never been married but I'm not about to get into a serious relationship with someone that doesn't want to make an effort to at least understand and be neutral to it. This was a contributing factor to my deciding to end a relationship of over 3 years, as a matter of fact.

    Now, obviously that's probably not practical for you, and I'm sure you probably love your wife and child or you wouldn't have this dilemma in the first place.

    A great website that your wife may like to read is http://corneredcat.com/ It is written by a woman who carries daily and has many articles ranging from handgun selection to legal issues to carry mindset. Specifically, here is a good page: http://corneredcat.com/Men/wifehateguns.aspx

    If visual is better, subscribe to the YouTube channel for LimaLife. She is a mother and wife and has a very impressive set of videos available online (and she's pretty easy to look at too )

    Here is a good article that may help you during your debates/discussions with your wife. I have found this to be incredibly useful when debating idiots online
    http://www.vcdl.org/new/raging.htm

    One final piece of advice I can give is, if you have other married friends (who carry, ESPECIALLY if the wife carries), have a dinner or something and subtly come around to the subject. Women are driven by emotion, not logic, and many times hearing reasons or justifications from another woman can make all the difference. If you ever come down to Cochise County, I will introduce the two of you to my friend and his wife, and their 4 children (who already know more about safe gun handling than many LEOs, IMHO). We go many places OC'ing. It shows that not all gun owners are crazed rednecks out to kill something, and that rational adults and parents are quite capable of carrying around a loaded firearm without it shooting someone all by itself.

    Caveat: If the above statement offends any women on this board, that is not my intention.
    Last edited by mFonz77; 09-13-2010 at 12:46 PM.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    'You know what they call people who live in Arizona and don't own guns? VICTIMS!

  7. #7
    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrh2008 View Post
    but I can't convince my wife to let me buy another firearm for protection
    Don't feel you are alone on this. My cynical guess is that 90% of male gun owners encounter the same issue from their wives or girl friends.

    If you find the secret, you could make a mint selling it.

    My only advice is not to listen to advice on gun forums on how to deal with your spouse

    Fred

  8. #8
    Regular Member GF's Avatar
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    That is exactly how my girlfriend was until I was fortunate enough to take her to the range. Much to her surprise (and mine) she realized she was a really good shot. Long story short, she now LOVES her S&W 642. She keeps saying that we have to go to range and that to me is just amazing. So if you have not taken her, please try. And please do your family a favor and get a firearm because Sonora Rebel could not be any more correct. Your family and their safety should be your number one priority and I am sure that you agree.

  9. #9
    Regular Member mFonz77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GF View Post
    That is exactly how my girlfriend was until I was fortunate enough to take her to the range. Much to her surprise (and mine) she realized she was a really good shot. Long story short, she now LOVES her S&W 642. She keeps saying that we have to go to range and that to me is just amazing. So if you have not taken her, please try. And please do your family a favor and get a firearm because Sonora Rebel could not be any more correct. Your family and their safety should be your number one priority and I am sure that you agree.
    Wow success stories with those x42s just keep popping up on this board. They are great little guns. Love my 442. I would suggest if she does say yes to the range, start her with a nice easy .22lr like a Walther P22 or a Hi-Power (and use reactive targets and take some binocs so she can see how good she did) Good luck

  10. #10
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    buy a small inexpensive concealable

    like one of these, the revolvers are tiny!
    http://www.naaminis.com/index.html

    Carry that until she comes around, the tiny .22short is super concealable, if she finds it "I forgot I had it, it was in a box I hadn't opened in a long time" "my friend gave it to me" etc.

    Or, just put your foot down "I'm buying a S&W 629 & a case of .44mag, whether you like it or not"

    Dude, the main thing is, when the creep with a weapon threatens your family, you are the one responsible for their safety

  11. #11
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    Dude, the main thing is, when the creep with a weapon threatens your family, you are the one responsible for their safety
    Well put. Also OP should copy and show my signature to his wife..

  12. #12
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    BEFORE I got married, I informed my wife to be that there would always be a minimum of 3 weapons in the house LOADED and ready to go!
    She agreed (thankfully) and has even bought me a few weapons, scopes, etc over the years.
    The only suggestion I can offer you is this: "It is easier to ask forgiveness then permission!".
    If you live in PHoenix metro, I'd gladly take you and her shooting. I'll even put on the class for her as I am a certified NRA instructor for Rifle, Pistol, and home safety.
    I am also a Combat veteran from the "vietnam experience"
    HTH
    Bob
    Last edited by Cava3r4; 11-09-2010 at 01:58 PM.

  13. #13
    Newbie crisisweasel's Avatar
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    I think, one of the biggest problems when you talk to people who are anti-gun, is neither side can really see things from the other side's perspective.

    Most anti-gun people, even if they accept the logic of preparedness abstractly, still consider guns a kind of flippant hobby or indulgence. Hence, when anti-gun people insist you should give up your firearms for the public good, or a safe society, or whatever, it is because they think of them as glorified lawn darts -- a kind of hobby without any particular importance. They themselves can't really think of them in the context of self-defense, or from the philosophical perspective of individualism and personal sovereignty. They've heard all that before but they kind of treat it as "your personal little trip" or delusion. They don't share it, so they've never really considered it very deeply.

    And this is in large part because most people have never had to defend themselves with force. I reflect on this myself. I'm 38 now, and I've never been a victim of a violent crime of any sort. Even in terms of preparedness, if I rank the carry of firearms compared to other preparedness items, I would have had far more use for smelling salts (which no one I know carries) than firearms.

    But I could say the same, frankly, for fire extinguishers, which we all like to bring up in our explanation. And I definitely keep one of those around. I've never been in an accident either, and still wear my seatbelt.

    My wife understands that there is a very raw personal principle involved in firearm ownership for me - it is part of who I am as an individual, vs. as a citizen, subject, taxpayer, or otherwise. It is the anchor of my personal sovereignty. Come tyranny, civil unrest, peace, suburban idyll, or any other social condition, no one owns me, period. And however I believe in that principle, the pistol is what makes it true. It is both a practical and pragmatic tool as well as a functional symbol for what makes me a free individual.

    It is not fear, paranoia, or, frankly, preparedness that makes me a gun owner (though preparedness is certainly served by it.) I own a gun for the same reason Jews keep kosher. It is what I do. It is who I am. Were I to go full-bore into a soliloquy about it, it'd be discussed in the same breath as owning land.

    I am not certain I could convince a spouse as to the practical need for a gun. I live in a safe family community which has, in the time I've been here (6 years), been free of violent crime. The easy response would be, "wouldn't it be more prudent and practical to own a defibrillator, you fat bastard?"

    But for me it isn't just about that. It goes far deeper to the core of who I am and how I relate to the world. My wife understands that. If she didn't, she wouldn't truly know me.

    I would also add that she's a liberal. Majored in sociology, and works for a school district now.

    However, her first experiences with firearms were in a criminology class at a University, which demystified them entirely. The first time I went shooting with her, she rummaged around in the dirt berm I was using a backstop and dug out the bullet she shot and started talking to me about everything she learned about ballistics. I don't know what kind of firearms policies she'd vote for if she didn't know me (she doesn't seem to be the type who would want to own a gun), but she certainly sees both sides of the issue.

    Bad statistics are also a particular pet peeve of hers, so she's always looking for problems with statistical analysis (that's what she does for a living), and the statistics used in favor of gun control in the United States tend to be, at their best, inconclusive. At their worst, of course, they are complete fabrications.

    The only thing I can advise is, if you feel deeply about this, you need to make your wife understand how deeply you do care -- that it isn't some kind of frivolous object you want to decorate your man-cave. I am not sure people always understand that about gun owners. My own experience, having many friends on the left, is they don't get it at all. Whenever you hear some anti-gun person go on about how guns are all about phallic compensation (which I've always maintained says more about them than their supposed insight into the mind of the armed), insecurity, or paranoia, that tends to be pretty clear.

    Alternately, you can put her in a box and mail her to Tristan de Cunha.

    That is fraught with its own perils, of course. It is a very long ship voyage to Tristan de Cunha.

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