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Thread: Free Press - Open carriers attending arts, beats, & eats festival are barely noticed

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    Free Press - Open carriers attending arts, beats, & eats festival are barely noticed

    http://www.freep.com/article/2010090...--a-real-treat

    SNIP

    . . .

    More than 300,000 people are expected for the four-day event, but fears of a parking shortage seemed overblown on the first night of the festival that's to end at 9 p.m. Monday.

    Among those present the first day were members of the Michigan Open Carry group, showing up after their summerlong demand that guns be allowed.

    Almost nobody noticed as Scott Webb, 31, of Roseville and Shaun McElroy, 32, of Macomb Township strolled with heat on their hips.

    . . .

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    Royal Oak Mayor Jim Ellison, greeting festivalgoers as he walked on Washington Avenue, said the kinks will be worked out for next year.

    "We're going to make mistakes, but shame on us if we don't learn from our mistakes," he said.
    glad to hear that oc at abe is just like oc in the rest of the state. a big non-event.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    Hopefully this will show people that OC is NOT A BIG DEAL.
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Arts, Beats and eats

    Quote Originally Posted by EM87 View Post
    Hopefully this will show people that OC is NOT A BIG DEAL.
    Royal Oak and their Mayor have not given up on this yet.They will push buttons and try to find a way to keep guns out next year.I doubt they will have any success with the michigan legistature unless the new governor pushes it. Gun control at this time would be political suicide.

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EM87 View Post
    Hopefully this will show people that OC is NOT A BIG DEAL.
    Open carry is not a big deal to the average citizen... but it is a gigantic deal to those who wish to further the leftist agenda of control of the people because..........

    Open carry of a gun is an in the face reminder toeveryone, citizen and government official alike, that the people of this country have RIGHTS. And heaven forbid the those lowly peasant people discover that they have real rights because every elitist control freak knows it is impossible to control a people who know and understand their rights.

    The real message of Royal Oak and the Arts Beats and Eats festival isn't about guns at all.... it is that government believes it can enforce the law when it suits their purpose...

    and ignore the law when it suits their purpose....

    Which law(s) will this, and other, city councils decide doesn't apply to them next?
    Last edited by Bikenut; 09-04-2010 at 05:12 PM.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Focus shift

    I thought it humorous that a lady was complaining at the end of the article..."you can bring a gun in, but not a bottle of water"...

    Let's see now, is that a privilege or a right?

    Still arguing from the emotional side of individual percerption of rights...

    Good on all you folks that OC'd, and reinforced the political win and that it was a non event...

    The politicals come out looking dull in this wax job....
    Last edited by jt59; 09-04-2010 at 05:13 PM.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Regular Member cmdr_iceman71's Avatar
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    Yeah, most people didnt even notice I was OCing and those who did, reacted with indifference. Just as it should be.
    "Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth." - President George Washington

    "Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson

    "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." - Thomas Paine

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Just another article about the Non-Issue that is OC at ABE:

    http://www.freep.com/article/2010090...al-summer-bash

    There are plenty more out there for those who are interested.

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    Regular Member Jerbear1098's Avatar
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    Seems the RO mayor and council made a huge deal out of nothing. Had they followed the law and not have that clause in the contract in the first place, no one would even know about it.

    Not sure if this is a blessing or a curse.

    Blessing= people that did not know about open carry in MI, now are asking questions and are interested.

    Curse= people want the state to pass a law restricting carry of any kind in such events.

    Democracy in action. Personally, I don't see anything happening these next two election cycles. After that, it's a crap shoot. This makes it all the more important, for the right people to be in office. State wide and Federally. Someone either on this forum or MGO, said Brenda Lawrence was out pressing the flesh in RO yesterday. If anyone sees her, they need to ask a question on how she feels about guns and carry in general. Wonder what her answer will be?

    I doubt Virg and Brenda will win this November, but pray to God they don't.

    Still not too sure about Snyder yet as well.
    JMHO....
    Last edited by Jerbear1098; 09-05-2010 at 11:41 AM.
    "It isn't that Liberals are ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so" --Ronald Reagan

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerbear1098 View Post
    Blessing= people that did not know about open carry in MI, now are asking questions and are interested.

    Curse= people want the state to pass a law restricting carry of any kind in such events.
    I would say the "blessing" received, at the cost of the "curse", was one of the best bargains around.

    --The "curse" isn't going to last long. Anti-gunners get emotional about whatever their issue du jour is quickly, then just as quickly that subsides and they move on to their next issue du jour tomorrow.

    --The "curse" was DOA before it even came about. Politicians have come to realize supporting gun control is far too risky to their careers.

    So, the "curse" being essentially moot, we picked up a lot of public awareness (and support I might add) for gun rights at a cost of essentially zero. For being truly grass-roots and none of us professionals in the "advocacy" business, I would say we are doing a good job in the PR and publicity biz!

    CARRY ON!
    Last edited by DanM; 09-05-2010 at 12:16 PM.

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerbear1098 View Post
    Seems the RO mayor and council made a huge deal out of nothing. Had they followed the law and not have that clause in the contract in the first place, no one would even know about it.

    Not sure if this is a blessing or a curse.

    Blessing= people that did not know about open carry in MI, now are asking questions and are interested.

    Curse= people want the state to pass a law restricting carry of any kind in such events.

    Democracy in action. Personally, I don't see anything happening these next two election cycles. After that, it's a crap shoot. This makes it all the more important, for the right people to be in office. State wide and Federally. Someone either on this forum or MGO, said Brenda Lawrence was out pressing the flesh in RO yesterday. If anyone sees her, they need to ask a question on how she feels about guns and carry in general. Wonder what her answer will be?

    I doubt Virg and Brenda will win this November, but pray to God they don't.

    Still not too sure about Snyder yet as well.
    JMHO....
    I am sure that some will try to limit our rights. This is not a bad thing, as their actions will expose them for what they are. The ABE Festival will come and go with little to no issue about firearm carry there. It is being reported in every news media organization that I can find that there is no issue with firearm carry there. The emotional response will die down and the general public will move on. With no direct evidence to support creation of a new PFZ, this issue will go nowhere. There must be an OVERWHELMING CONCERN to justify RIGHTS INFRINGEMENT. This is especially true with the recent SCOTUS Decisions of Heller and McDonald. The current political environment will guide this as will persons pressing for rights to be restored.

    I am working on the legal language changes for MCL 123.1102 to give it some "teeth" and will post it later today.

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    Regular Member Jerbear1098's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDinDetroit View Post
    I am sure that some will try to limit our rights. This is not a bad thing, as their actions will expose them for what they are. The ABE Festival will come and go with little to no issue about firearm carry there. It is being reported in every news media organization that I can find that there is no issue with firearm carry there. The emotional response will die down and the general public will move on. With no direct evidence to support creation of a new PFZ, this issue will go nowhere. There must be an OVERWHELMING CONCERN to justify RIGHTS INFRINGEMENT. This is especially true with the recent SCOTUS Decisions of Heller and McDonald. The current political environment will guide this as will persons pressing for rights to be restored.

    I am working on the legal language changes for MCL 123.1102 to give it some "teeth" and will post it later today.

    As usual, great job PD...

    P.S. How are you feeling? better I hope.
    Last edited by Jerbear1098; 09-05-2010 at 12:28 PM.
    "It isn't that Liberals are ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so" --Ronald Reagan

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    We do not live in a Democracy we live in a constitutional Republic.

    Read what the founders said about Democracy. Read the last one I pasted by Good old Ben.

    http://www.cancertutor.com/Quotes/Qu...residents.html

    Quotes: Founding Fathers and Presidents

    "The jaws of power are always open to devour, and her arm is always stretched out, if possible, to destroy the freedom of thinking, speaking, and writing."
    John Adams

    "Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself."
    John Adams

    "We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
    John Adams (The Works of John Adams, ed. C. F. Adams, Boston: Little, Brown Co., 1851, 4:31)

    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."
    Samuel Adams

    "He therefore is the truest friend to the liberty of this country who tries most to promote its virtue, and who, so far as his power and influence extend, will not suffer a man to be chosen into any office of power and trust who is not a wise and virtuous man....The sum of all is, if we would most truly enjoy this gift of Heaven, let us become a virtuous people."
    Samuel Adams

    "If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin."
    Samuel Adams

    "Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."
    Charles Carroll, signer of the Declaration of Independence

    "Every step we take towards making the State our Caretaker of our lives, by that much we move toward making the State our Master."
    Dwight D. Eisenhower

    "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security."
    Benjamin Franklin

    "I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth--that God Governs the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?"
    Benjamin Franklin
    ....................................This one I LOVE!............................................. ..........
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
    Benjamin Franklin

    .................................................. .........................


    Much more at the site I linked

    http://www.cancertutor.com/Quotes/Qu...residents.html
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerbear1098 View Post
    Seems the RO mayor and council made a huge deal out of nothing. Had they followed the law and not have that clause in the contract in the first place, no one would even know about it.

    Not sure if this is a blessing or a curse.

    Blessing= people that did not know about open carry in MI, now are asking questions and are interested.

    Curse= people want the state to pass a law restricting carry of any kind in such events.

    Democracy in action. Personally, I don't see anything happening these next two election cycles. After that, it's a crap shoot. This makes it all the more important, for the right people to be in office. State wide and Federally. Someone either on this forum or MGO, said Brenda Lawrence was out pressing the flesh in RO yesterday. If anyone sees her, they need to ask a question on how she feels about guns and carry in general. Wonder what her answer will be?

    I doubt Virg and Brenda will win this November, but pray to God they don't.

    Still not too sure about Snyder yet as well.
    JMHO....
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

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    I couldn't find a link to this article posted in this thread.

    http://www.freep.com/article/2010090...but-fizzle-out

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    Regular Member Jerbear1098's Avatar
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    Bailenforcer, that's what our country started out as. It has morphed into something other than that. Not quite sure what it is now. We, however need to bring it back to the glory it once was. Ignorant people that vote without knowledge of the candidates are the problem. This was proven during the last presidential election. Voting color over substance. Hope and Change are just words. People that actually thought the president was going pay their house payment and gas, are the ones that need to stay home the next election. Or better yet, educate them on what they really stand for, before they go to vote.

    Our kids don't get the history taught to them, that us older folks did. History books have changed over the years to suit the agenda of the progressive left. Hopefully the Texas Education system has changed that, since they order all the books for the US.

    JMHO...
    "It isn't that Liberals are ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so" --Ronald Reagan

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    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    Look at History and tell me where the left have started a civilization and it prospered?
    NO where.

    They can only subvert, steal, cheat, lie and murder to get one, and even then as history proves, they destroy it.

    The left has nothing to prove their case, only lies and distortions. The U.S.S.R. is one of many historical proofs of the lefts inability to create anything but destruction.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jerbear1098 View Post
    Bailenforcer, that's what our country started out as. It has morphed into something other than that. Not quite sure what it is now. We, however need to bring it back to the glory it once was. Ignorant people that vote without knowledge of the candidates are the problem. This was proven during the last presidential election. Voting color over substance. Hope and Change are just words. People that actually thought the president was going pay their house payment and gas, are the ones that need to stay home the next election. Or better yet, educate them on what they really stand for, before they go to vote.

    Our kids don't get the history taught to them, that us older folks did. History books have changed over the years to suit the agenda of the progressive left. Hopefully the Texas Education system has changed that, since they order all the books for the US.

    JMHO...
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

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    Regular Member Master Control's Avatar
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    re:

    Quote Originally Posted by cmdr_iceman71 View Post
    Yeah, most people didnt even notice I was OCing and those who did, reacted with indifference. Just as it should be.
    Agreed.
    "Liberty's too precious a thing to be buried in books...Men should hold it up in front of them every single day of their lives and say: 'I'm free to think and to speak. My ancestors couldn't. I can. And my children will."
    ,,, So Mote Be


    Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.-- JC

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    The ticket collector tried to tell me and a friend that we couldn't bring our guns into AB&E! And this was on Monday! I told her that we could, she referenced a sign, so I told her that she could call the city council, the police, her supervisor or whomever she wanted, but I could go in as UI pleased. She went and got a cop nearby, who signaled to us without hesitation or a single word, that we could proceed.
    Last edited by stainless1911; 09-07-2010 at 02:07 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    The ticket collector tried to tell me and a friend that we couldn't bring our guns into AB&E! And this was on Monday! I told her that we could, she referenced a sign, so I told her that she could call the city council, the police, her supervisor or whomever she wanted, but I could go in as UI pleased. She went and got a cop nearby, who signaled to us without hesitation or a single word, that we could proceed.
    geez.

    audio/video?
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    she referenced a sign
    What did the sign say, exactly?

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    Regular Member kyleplusitunes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    geez.

    audio/video?
    bet you a c note there isn't any

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    after having an open carry" misunderstanding" that resulted in the suspension of ones cpl, i am sure that person would carry a voice recorder at all times while oc'ing.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    well i don't remember any heat on my side but it was a warm day.........

    me (shaun Mcelroy) and scott had a great time at ABE some people noticed most didn't, and i had a lady and her mortified husband comment on my aparrent intelligence. her childs balloon tapped me on the arm and when i turned to look she stated, "don't shoot,,,,, f****i*ng idiot" there was a slight pause between don't shoot and the referance to my brain power. i thanked her and walked away while the news paper guy interviewed her. then she referenced both scotts and my anus opening and concluded the interview. her husband appeared less than pleased with the whole encounter.

    i was not offended, and rather amused by the whole situation. we were not bothered in the least by anyone, and law enforcement was very present and i felt very safe from the food vendors.
    yes...........take it away dancing monkey!

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lapeer20m View Post
    after having an open carry" misunderstanding" that resulted in the suspension of ones cpl, i am sure that person would carry a voice recorder at all times while oc'ing.
    Folks.... please look around on the 'net. There are many video + audio recorders available for the same price as some just audio recorders. Video + audio does not lie as to who said what.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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