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Thread: Pharmacy employee draws weapon and fires on robbers in north highlands ca

  1. #1
    Regular Member rotty's Avatar
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    Pharmacy employee draws weapon and fires on robbers in north highlands ca

    No judgement until all the facts are out


    http://www.sacbee.com/2010/09/04/300...ll-clerks.html
    - Knowledge is power and there IS strength in numbers -

    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    - Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rotty View Post
    No judgement until all the facts are out


    http://www.sacbee.com/2010/09/04/300...ll-clerks.html
    Sad story .....

    .....blame the crooks.....no one else.

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    "The first time, they gave (the robber) the money and drugs," said Yelena Gurskiy, 21. "The second time, I don't know why this happened. I guess it's because someone thought they could be a hero."
    Like rotty said....need to wait until all the facts are out, but my guess is that it was just a normal person trying to save their own life and the others around them.

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    I don't really see why judgment would need to be passed. Sounds like someone just didn't want to be a victim again and again and again.

    If a place gets robbed twice, and both times the employees just bend over for the robbers. Then what do you think is going to happen? Either they're going to come back, or someone else is going to try their hand. And it's going to keep happening unless someone stands up and puts a stop to it. Sounds to me like that's what this guy did or tried to do.

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    Regular Member rotty's Avatar
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    They are already painting a picture that the female employee is dead because the man made the choice to fight. His choice to fight is something I whole heartedly agree with. But again, I was not there, and there are alot of unanswered questions.
    Last edited by rotty; 09-05-2010 at 12:45 AM.
    - Knowledge is power and there IS strength in numbers -

    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    - Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member confedneck's Avatar
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    the sister, yelenia, needs a swift kick to the ****...
    "The second time, I don't know why this happened. I guess it's because someone thought they could be a hero."

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by confedneck View Post
    the sister, yelenia, needs a swift kick to the ****...
    "The second time, I don't know why this happened. I guess it's because someone thought they could be a hero."
    That's the stupid mindset of folks nowadays. In my mind it is solely the criminals fault and when caught they should be tried for murder, whether Tanya was shot by shopkeeper or by the crooks. The gun would have never been used if they didn't engage in their behavior.

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    Regular Member rscottie's Avatar
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    These guys were in command of the store and had free reign to walk around the store. This is obvious from the video. At the point in the video, the shootout has not begun.

    I also note that these guys made no effort to cover their faces.

    If I were one of the employees, that is enough to make me think that they are going to kill us all to get rid of the witnesses.

    It is sad that this girl got shot and I'm hoping that the investigation reveals that the BG shot her and not her co-worker.

    But, truly, it does not matter. Her death was the result of the robbers and their choice to bring guns into a lawful business and threaten all of the people there. We will never know if the robbers intended to shoot anyone, but that is not the point. These people were being terrorized and their lives were at risk. The clerk had every right and a moral obligation to protect himself and his co-workers as he had the means to do it.

    The anti-gun sheeple crowd would prefer dead employees, shot execution style after being herded into a back room and made to kneel. When that happens they can decry how these poor souls lost their lives due to the ease of getting a gun.

    I'm not surprised they are trying to do the same thing with a justifiable shooting.

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    Regular Member The Expert's Avatar
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    The anti-gun sheeple crowd would prefer dead employees, shot execution style after being herded into a back room and made to kneel. When that happens they can decry how these poor souls lost their lives due to the ease of getting a gun.
    That really puts in perspective how the media can twist everything so that no matter how the tragedy turns out, it results in a call for more "gun control"...or an outright ban.
    I always open carry one of my Kimber 1911 pistols everywhere I go. Usually in a paddle holster. Nothing fancy, but it works for me.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    I don't even see how this could be controversial. Execute the felony murderer, or give him a fate worse than death in giving him life in a kali prison. If he gets away, launch a relentless man hunt.

    But the idea of standing up to criminals is so foreign to the victim mindsetted folks in Kalifornia that this has stirred up a controversy. I will never understand how large groups of people could think that way, but it certainly isn't surprising to see.
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    If the bad guys were not there to begin with, no of these would have happened. They should be tried and convicted for murder whoever shot who.

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    I do believe that most States do have such a felony murder law.

    Fry the SOB.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscottie View Post
    These guys were in command of the store and had free reign to walk around the store. This is obvious from the video. At the point in the video, the shootout has not begun.

    I also note that these guys made no effort to cover their faces.

    If I were one of the employees, that is enough to make me think that they are going to kill us all to get rid of the witnesses.
    Really? Is that what any of us would want store owners to think about me when I open carry in their store?

    I don't think so!

    I'm sorry for the sister's loss. However, if both employees had been carrying and well trained the first time around, there may never have been a second time.
    Last edited by since9; 11-10-2010 at 04:58 AM. Reason: grammar
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Regular Member rscottie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Really? Is that would any of us would want store owners to think about me when I open carry in their store?

    I don't think so!

    I'm sorry for the sister's loss. However, if both employees had been carrying and well trained the first time around, there may never have been a second time.
    Not sure why you are taking offense as it is obvious I am referring to the bg's being in the BACK OFFICE in the video, thus having free reign over the store. They do not have their faces covered. At that point, any logical person would be safe to assume the bg's may not wish to leave witnesses and thus kill them all.

    No one is saying that it is OPEN SEASON on Open Carriers and as long as you do not attempt to rob a place, you should be fine.

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    In the eyes of the CA Judicial Sytem, it doesn't matter who fired the bullet that killed Ms. Gurskiy. The robbers, if caught, WILL be charged with Felon Murder.

    If the pharmacy employee was acting lawfully to defend himself and those around him, and his firearm was lawfully possessed and registerd under CA Statutes, he cannot be held criminally liable for any death that may occur while lawfully attempting to defend himself against people in the process of committing a felony.

    When a homicide happens during the commission of certain crimes, it is considered First Degree Murder under California Penal Code § 189 when committed during the commission of one of the following predicate felonies:

    • Arson
    • Rape and other sexual crimes
    • Carjacking
    • Robbery
    • Burglary
    • Mayhem
    • Kidnapping
    • Train wrecking
    • And any homicide committed by intentionally firing a gun from a motor vehicle at a person outside of the motor vehicle with the intention to cause death
    Last edited by Dreamer; 11-09-2010 at 10:10 PM.
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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscottie View Post
    ...it is obvious I am referring to the bg's being in the BACK OFFICE in the video, thus having free reign over the store.
    I stand corrected - my bad!

    Dreamer: Well said.
    Last edited by since9; 11-10-2010 at 05:01 AM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Regular Member rscottie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    In the eyes of the CA Judicial Sytem, it doesn't matter who fired the bullet that killed Ms. Gurskiy. The robbers, if caught, WILL be charged with Felon Murder.

    If the pharmacy employee was acting lawfully to defend himself and those around him, and his firearm was lawfully possessed and registerd under CA Statutes, he cannot be held criminally liable for any death that may occur while lawfully attempting to defend himself against people in the process of committing a felony.

    (snip)[/LIST]
    Seems as though California has the above referenced law correct!

    I was more referring to the mental health of the store clerk. If it were to come out that the bullet that killed the female store clerk came from her co-workers gun, the media will run that for all it is worth. No matter how many times the guy tells himself that he did not mean to hit her, he will still second guess himself and that is sad. He was doing right, defending himself and his co-workers, he should not be made to feel guilty. It would be nice if the M.E. would just not report that, but I know they must.

    So,for the good guy's sake, I hope it was not his bullet that hit the store clerk.

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    It concerns me that the assumtion seems to be that the girl got killed by her co-worker... media seems to paint a picture to lead in that direction, without saying it, and thus make the pistol-packin' co-worker a bad guy, along with the real bad guys. Instead, let's pat this guy on the back for takin' the effort to get the licence needed to carry a gun, and the self confedence to use it... likely the robbers are wounded because he was able to actuly hit them under stressful conditions, something I don't know I'd be able to do. Hit a target, when practicing, with a good rest, etc, is one thing. Hitting something moving, under these curcumstances, way to go buddy!!! This situation is exactly why we carry guns, knives, take karate classes, etc. To protect ourselves and others...
    Greg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    I don't really see why judgment would need to be passed. Sounds like someone just didn't want to be a victim again and again and again.

    If a place gets robbed twice, and both times the employees just bend over for the robbers. Then what do you think is going to happen? Either they're going to come back, or someone else is going to try their hand. And it's going to keep happening unless someone stands up and puts a stop to it. Sounds to me like that's what this guy did or tried to do.
    this

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dieselcrawler View Post
    It concerns me that the assumtion seems to be that the girl got killed by her co-worker... media seems to paint a picture to lead in that direction, without saying it, and thus make the pistol-packin' co-worker a bad guy, along with the real bad guys.
    For his, as well as all of our sakes, let's hope the M.E. finds that the girl's demise was at the hand of the perps, not her co-worker.

    ...likely the robbers are wounded because he was able to actuly hit them under stressful conditions, something I don't know I'd be able to do. Hit a target, when practicing, with a good rest, etc, is one thing. Hitting something moving, under these curcumstances, way to go buddy!!!
    This is why we should practice in as realistic a situation as possible. I know this is going to sound crass, but first-person shooter games are actually a good way to learn how important it is that one use cover! But nothing beats range time. Just remember that in a real situation, you're not likely to be using a rest, much less lining up your sights. It's important to be able to rapidly draw and fire with good accuracy. Learning to accurately double-tap is helpful as well.

    The range I attend allows us to draw and fire, as well as double-tap and rapid fire. It has both posts and cable spools which can be used as barriers for cover. As long as one keeps their firearm pointed downrange, the rangemaster is ok with us practicing these basic close-quarters skills.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Bear in mind that BOTH the victim and the sister were not born here, and their parents weren't either. They didn't grow up in a society or family unit that accepted guns as a self-defense tool. Many Eastern European folks have the mindset to either rule, or be ruled. So there are those who will Mexican Carry (IWB w/o holster, henceforce IWBWOH), and carry regardless of laws, local or distant. And there are those who will not carry, because that is for the police and military, and they are neither and do not want "to bring trouble" on themselves.
    Last edited by Kirbinator; 11-14-2010 at 02:37 PM.
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    Any updates?

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    Regular Member XDM 9MM Squared's Avatar
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    Sad story, but not me!

    It’s sort of upsetting to me that the one person made the comment about the man "The second time, I don't know why this happened. I guess it's because someone thought they could be a hero."

    I guess she thinks that everyone should have to stand around and wait to be shot in the face while these thugs go on their rampage for drugs?

    Not me and not the man in the store with the gun!

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    Angry

    It's a damned shame we the people need to be armed to somewhat insure our safety. These gangsta thugs ain't happy with the loot, they gotta shoot or beat you down for the hell of it. Catch them and keep them off the streets forever. Of course I myself would much rather see a death sentence carried out but it's Cali. If caught and found guilty they will probably serve no more then 7-10 years, get out, and do it all over.
    Last edited by ZO6Vettever; 01-02-2011 at 01:11 PM.

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    "I guess it's because someone thought they could be a hero."

    Seriously? Have all humans devolved to this kind of thinking? So it's not the fault of the armed felon, let's put all of the blame on the individual trying to save his life.

    "Regardless of which gun fired the bullet that killed Gurskiy, the suspect who fired his gun can still be charged with murder, as Gurskiy's death was a result of his crime of robbery, Curran said."

    At least the police have common sense.

    I hope they find these murderers and stand trial for the tragedy that they caused.

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