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Thread: Macomb Daily "letters to the editor",Hamaneggs reply to"gun proponents oppose mosque"

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    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Macomb Daily "letters to the editor",Hamaneggs reply to"gun proponents oppose mosque"

    The Macomb Daily,in Warren MI,printed my "letter to the editor",on the opinion page today,replying to a story titled "Gun proponents oppose mosque"from last sunday!That letter was from a person who was obviously anti-AB&E OC. I'll reprint both here soon!I'm tired of lies,so I wrote a "letter to the editor" as soon as I finished reading that cowpie.Looks like I got through! COOL! Reprint coming soon!
    Last edited by hamaneggs; 09-05-2010 at 09:46 AM.
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

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    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Wink

    First letter,8/29/10: GUN PROPONENTS OPPOSE MOSQUE; I would appreciate if the "open carry" gun proponents would explain their conflicting use of our Constitution concerning two important issues.
    First, why use the Second Amendment to the Constitution to justify being able to openly carry guns wherever you want,such as the Arts,Beats & Eats festival in Royal Oak? And why has every open carry advocate that I've spoken to said that they would deny American-Muslims their First Amendment rights to build an Islamic community center near Ground Zero in New York city?
    Both actions are allowed by the U.S Constitution. Yet it seems as if the open carry group, along with many other Americans, want the Constitution enforced when it supports their goals, but to be ignored when it doesn't agree with their agenda.
    Our Constitution was never setup,nor changed,to work that way.It is all inclusive for the protection of each and every American, no matter what the differences are between us.
    In a perfect world, both issues would have been handled in a less abrasive manner, or maybe not have had to been raised at all. But since we live in this real and imperfect world, we aren't allowed to pick which parts of our Constitution we are going to obey and which parts we are going to ignore. Always remember that just because someone can legally do something doesn't mean that somone should do it.
    William Krull, Roseville.

    Second letter 9/5/10: Majority against building Mosque;
    Letter writer William Krull's said that open carry gun proponents conflict in their use of the Constitution. He states, "every open carry advocate he has spoken to would deny American Muslims their first Amendment rights to build an Islamic community center near Ground Zero in New York city."
    The majority of Americans are against the mosque,not on constitutional grounds, but grounds of insensitivity. I'm sure the handfull of open carry supporters he said he spoke to believed as most Americans do. I, along with most open carry supporters,have been studying firearms laws for years and do not have to justify exercising our rights.
    The letter's headline " Gun proponents oppose mosque" may be his biased opinion but it is totaly misleading.The First Amendment does not state the freedom to build a mosque anywhere you want. Aticle 1 Sec. 6 of the Michigan Constitution states, "every person has the right to keep and bear arms for the defense of himself and the state(the people)."
    All open carry supporters know that. They have come to this understanding by studying the laws. Otherwise, they would be like most people who wouldn't dare open carry a gun in a holster for fear of being arrested. Thats because most people are law-abiding and do not know they can protect themselves and their fellow citizens. But some people know that now.
    JEFFERY HAMAN, WARREN.

    It's nice to know that an anti-gun opinion in the media,can be refuted! And I enjoyed the fact it happened so quickly and in sequence. It should always be that way RIGHT? When it comes to the media NOTT! It's good to know that it did in this instance and in our Great State! CARRY ON!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamaneggs View Post
    First letter,8/29/10: GUN PROPONENTS OPPOSE MOSQUE; I would appreciate if the "open carry" gun proponents would explain their conflicting use of our Constitution concerning two important issues.
    First, why use the Second Amendment to the Constitution to justify being able to openly carry guns wherever you want,such as the Arts,Beats & Eats festival in Royal Oak? And why has every open carry advocate that I've spoken to said that they would deny American-Muslims their First Amendment rights to build an Islamic community center near Ground Zero in New York city?
    I would not deny the American-Muslims the right to negotiate with a private land owner and build what they please on land they have purchased with their funds. I understand their purchase was subsidized by several government funds (which makes it a different case), but I've not verified those facts, so please don't quote me. I do think if the land was brought from a private party with private funds, no person in the government should so much as comment on what the new owners lawfully do with the land; that is of course unless said government official's job involves inspecting new buildings!

    That all being said -- LEAVE ME AND MY FIREARM ALONE!

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by hamaneggs View Post
    The First Amendment does not state the freedom to build a mosque anywhere you want.
    BTW, the "Freedom of Religion" could be construed to defend a private land owner doing what they want with the land they purchased -- especially when the use of that land involves a religious purpose.

    On a separate note, I've often pondered starting my own religion so I can use it to legally justify doing whatever I want.

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    I am Pro-Open carry(duh!), but I do not have a problem with the Mosque. First of all, it's not on Ground Zero...it's blocks away...on private property. We all have our opinions on if it is appropriate, but those are just that...opinions. Those opinions are not unlike those that recognize our right to carry but asked us not to carry at AB&E because it was a family event. We gave those opinions little thought, just like our opinions on the Mosque will be given little thought. And rightfully so.

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    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    I do have an issue with any religion who calls for me to be killed because I am not of their religion and before someone tries to say it isn't true you might get a copy of the Koran as we call it and read it. If they want me to live under their religious edicts (Sharia Law) then yes I have a huge problem with it. This is not Saudi Arabia this is the USA PERIOD! When in ROME.....

    Otherwise I have no issue with people of a different faith. respect my rights and I respect yours, it's s simple concept.

    I tire of the religious apologies from those who apologize for me or on my behalf to the people who loudly proclaim I should be murdered because I am an infidel. I have heard the Muslim clerics say this with my own ears and until I hear otherwise from the same mouths then I stand on my position.


    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    I am Pro-Open carry(duh!), but I do not have a problem with the Mosque. First of all, it's not on Ground Zero...it's blocks away...on private property. We all have our opinions on if it is appropriate, but those are just that...opinions. Those opinions are not unlike those that recognize our right to carry but asked us not to carry at AB&E because it was a family event. We gave those opinions little thought, just like our opinions on the Mosque will be given little thought. And rightfully so.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

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    I can see it's offensive to many Americans. But tough- freedom can be offensive. People need to learn that they have a right to be offended, but they cannot trod upon the rights of others. The same emotionalism that fuels the ground zero mosque debate is the same emotionalism that fuels the anti-gun debate.

    Now if the mosque is being built with taxpayer dollars, or if the mosque is being built on public property, I would see reason to oppose it. But what they do on their own time, in their own building, on their own property doesn't bother me.

    It amazes me to no end when I see people who love this country and what it stands for so much that, when confronted with a threat to the country (whether real or perceived), they actually fight to undermine what makes this country so great in an attempt to defeat the threat.

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    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    Please give an example of this undermining.


    Quote Originally Posted by kubel View Post
    It amazes me to no end when I see people who love this country and what it stands for so much that, when confronted with a threat to the country (whether real or perceived), they actually fight to undermine what makes this country so great in an attempt to defeat the threat.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kubel View Post
    It amazes me to no end when I see people who love this country and what it stands for so much that, when confronted with a threat to the country (whether real or perceived), they actually fight to undermine what makes this country so great in an attempt to defeat the threat.
    I agree 100%...
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    I am going out on a limb here and since you signed off an hour after I posted my question to what you were referring to I am guessing you choose not to elaborate on who you were calling out as undermining what makes this country great as you put it.

    What did make this country great?

    Was it Muslim war ships and Muslim Pirates that murdered and killed the people here who dared to set sail from our shores while this country was in it's infancy? Or what it the likes of Thomas Jefferson who grew tired of the killing robbing looting by the Muslim ships full of Muslim Pirates? Oh they didn't teach you this in history class? They did in my high school. Maybe one needs to google it. There is nothing undermining by saying that Muslims are welcomed here so long as they don't preach in the Mosques that the slaughter of the Children of Christians, Jews, Hindus, Atheists is demanded by Allah by everyone in Islam. Maybe we should apologize to the Nazis? Oh wait we might not to use that word Nazi in any derogatory way as we now hear Muslim Leaders admiring Hitler as a HERO.

    What Undermining is being done here? Not being a COWARD is undermining? I am curious since you chose to place that comment right after my post and then sit for an hour and not respond to your assertions.

    If we the Open carry crowd can't speak without political correctness muzzling us then we are doomed to fail as political correctness is being used on us, to take away our rights.

    Here's a fact and several polls of Muslims keep gaining a larger number of Muslims who think it's perfectly fine to murder in the USA anyone not a Muslim. In a Pew poll More than one third of American Muslims think it's perfectly okay to murder Christians and the number is higher for Jews. I wonder what they think about Atheists, I am betting the number is even higher than Christians.

    So once again I ponder the question, if we are supposed to ignore the rantings of over one third of Muslims who want us all dead, then why should we be so upset over Nazis? Is there a difference? I think so, see Nazism is only a political entity where there is not angry GOD warning you of retribution for not killing Christians and Jews, Islam has that angry GOD so the religious fervor is now added to the mix.

    Anyone who welcomes an ideology that includes the Murder of over 86% of the population of this country is one who UNDERMINES this country, not the one who questions the illogical assumptions that the call for Murder should be ignored. Oh that 86% are professing Christians according to polls, I did not include Jews, Hindus, Atheists and other religions. So adding those into the mix we are now inviting the GENOCIDE of just over 95% of the population and some people think this is perfectly fine?!?!?

    The undermining of this once great nation has been done by the appeasers who are COWARDS who fail to speak out against the insanity of wholesale murder of 95% of the population of this country. I would like to hear Muslims who know the truth and feel the same way I do that Murder is incompatible with the Constitution.

    The cowardice of appeasers makes me want to vomit. Remember Nevil Chamberlain?

    Muslims have a duty to assimilate into our society not disrupt it. I am thankful many do want to join our society, and I am disturbed why so many are here to cause trouble and so many Muslims sit quiet and not call out their own clerics who actively promote mass murder, and Genocide. Even more distressing are the appeaser coward Americans who try to shut up anyone who dares tell the truth.

    Below on the Muslim Pirates and I suggest one google and read this forgotten history, shall we pay a tribute to those who wish to use the monies to destroy us?

    To those who question me, I read the Qur'an/Koran have you?

    In 1784, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and Benjamin Franklin were commissioned by the first Congress to assemble in Paris to see about marketing U.S. products in Europe.
    Jefferson quickly surmised that the biggest challenge facing U.S. merchant ships were those referred to euphemistically as "Barbary pirates."
    They weren't "pirates" at all, in the traditional sense, Jefferson noticed. They didn't drink and chase women and they really weren't out to strike it rich. Instead, their motivation was strictly religious. They bought and sold slaves, to be sure. They looted ships. But they used their booty to buy guns, ships, cannon and ammunition.
    Like those we call "terrorists" today, they saw themselves engaged in jihad and called themselves "mujahiddin."
    Why did these 18th-century terrorists represent such a grave threat to U.S. merchant ships? With independence from Great Britain, the former colonists lost the protection of the greatest navy in the world. The U.S. had no navy – not a single warship.
    Jefferson inquired of his European hosts how they dealt with the problem. He was stunned to find out that France and England both paid tribute to the fiends – who would, in turn, use the money to expand their own armada, buy more weaponry, hijack more commercial ships, enslave more innocent civilians and demand greater ransom.

    No matter your reason for your post this needs to be said. Political correctness and appeasement is deadly, and it in fact undermines our Republic.


    Quote Originally Posted by kubel View Post
    It amazes me to no end when I see people who love this country and what it stands for so much that, when confronted with a threat to the country (whether real or perceived), they actually fight to undermine what makes this country so great in an attempt to defeat the threat.
    Last edited by Bailenforcer; 09-07-2010 at 09:55 AM.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

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    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bailenforcer View Post
    Please give an example of this undermining.
    Anti-gun laws is certainly one.
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bailenforcer View Post
    Here's a fact and several polls of Muslims keep gaining a larger number of Muslims who think it's perfectly fine to murder in the USA anyone not a Muslim [citation needed]. In a Pew poll More than one third of American Muslims think it's perfectly okay to murder Christians and the number is higher for Jews[citation needed].
    Added "fact" template. ([citation needed])
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    BTW, the "Freedom of Religion" could be construed to defend a private land owner doing what they want with the land they purchased -- especially when the use of that land involves a religious purpose.

    On a separate note, I've often pondered starting my own religion so I can use it to legally justify doing whatever I want.
    You could be an extremist muslim.The koran allows lying to achieve whatever you want.
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bailenforcer View Post
    Please give an example of this undermining.
    The freedom to do what I please with my property within the limits of the law which is equally applied, for example.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    Read the PEW poll results then come back whining about a citation.

    Are you disputing the Qua'ran calls for the murder of Jews, or infidels (non believers)? Nice try it is common knowledge and repeated every day from ever single Muslim Cleric the Jews and Christians need to be killed. You might want to wake up and get up to speed with world events.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Added "fact" template. ([citation needed])
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamaneggs View Post
    You could be an extremist muslim.The koran allows lying to achieve whatever you want.
    I thought about saying that, but my limited sense of PC kicked in and I held my tongue. Plus, I didn't want some innocent person to die because I questioned Islam. F***, I did it again
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bailenforcer View Post
    Read the PEW poll results then come back whining about a citation.

    Are you disputing the Qua'ran calls for the murder of Jews, or infidels (non believers)? Nice try it is common knowledge and repeated every day from ever single Muslim Cleric the Jews and Christians need to be killed. You might want to wake up and get up to speed with world events.
    You were referencing a poll. I thought you might have some hard fact reference to back up the fact you presented. Silly my for not believing YOUR words for being Gospel

    Thank you for setting me on the path if righteousness, great teacher.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  18. #18
    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kubel View Post
    I can see it's offensive to many Americans. But tough- freedom can be offensive. People need to learn that they have a right to be offended, but they cannot trod upon the rights of others. The same emotionalism that fuels the ground zero mosque debate is the same emotionalism that fuels the anti-gun debate.

    Now if the mosque is being built with taxpayer dollars, or if the mosque is being built on public property, I would see reason to oppose it. But what they do on their own time, in their own building, on their own property doesn't bother me.

    It amazes me to no end when I see people who love this country and what it stands for so much that, when confronted with a threat to the country (whether real or perceived), they actually fight to undermine what makes this country so great in an attempt to defeat the threat.
    Thats because they do not understand the principles of the constitution.The constitution has such basic principles it flies over the heads of those deep thinkers who desire to control others,so they use it to control those who do not believe the way they do.They don't understand true freedom! They fear it!
    Last edited by hamaneggs; 09-07-2010 at 11:27 AM.
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

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    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    There is no freedom from foreign invaders coming here NON citizens to enjoy our rights and kill us, call for our murders, stir up hate against us, ect. By virtue of the FACT many Muslims are no citizens and call for the wholesale murder of Jews and Christians gives them NO rights as we citizens enjoy, your misreading of history and the intent of the founders is dangerous. We have lost our collective minds to allow illegals, foreign Governments, enemies and hostile groups to come here and buy out our country from under us. Property ownership, is not a defense of evil, or the call for Genocide.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    The freedom to do what I please with my property within the limits of the law which is equally applied, for example.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

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    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    I thought about saying that, but my limited sense of PC kicked in and I held my tongue. Plus, I didn't want some innocent person to die because I questioned Islam. F***, I did it again
    There's a perfect example of extremist islamists using our constitution to try and destroy us.Freedom of speech is not PC! Bearing arms is not PC!
    Last edited by hamaneggs; 09-07-2010 at 11:32 AM.
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

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    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    yes I said the source now go to the PEW Poll research center and look at the poll. Do I need to hold your hand?


    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    You were referencing a poll. I thought you might have some hard fact reference to back up the fact you presented. Silly my for not believing YOUR words for being Gospel

    Thank you for setting me on the path if righteousness, great teacher.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

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    Regular Member fozzy71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    You were referencing a poll. I thought you might have some hard fact reference to back up the fact you presented. Silly my for not believing YOUR words for being Gospel

    Thank you for setting me on the path if righteousness, great teacher.
    Now you know why he is the only poster on this forum I have put on my ignore list.
    "I like users who quote smellslikemichigan in their signature lines." - fozzy71

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    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    I hope this picture loads it says a thousand words.



    Quote Originally Posted by hamaneggs View Post
    There's a perfect example of extremist islamists using our constitution to try and destroy us.Freedom of speech is not PC! Bearing arms is not PC!
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    Last edited by Bailenforcer; 09-07-2010 at 11:38 AM.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  24. #24
    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Didn't my reply to the guy who lumped all OCers in the same basket? He sounded like the liberals who have been calling conservatives and the tea party folks racists from the begining.I do believe he was trying to depict OCers as a bunch of racists without actualy coming out with it!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

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    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    actually it was I that put him on ignore. I love how he takes credit for things others did. he was still whining about my posts long after I placed him on ignore and said it in the thread. I tire of those who twist the truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by fozzy71 View Post
    Now you know why he is the only poster on this forum I have put on my ignore list.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

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