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Thread: Jury Duty in Minnesota

  1. #1
    Regular Member rotty's Avatar
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    Jury Duty in Minnesota

    Looking for information about carrying into the courthouse for jury duty. I know it is simple to leave it in the truck and lock it, but I would feel more comfortable if it was secured inside.

    Anyone know what the procedure would be in MN. I know jails and courthouses are prohibited, unless a letter of intent is sent to the sheriff before hand.

    Has anyone else ever done this in MN ?
    - Knowledge is power and there IS strength in numbers -

    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    - Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member Brimstone Baritone's Avatar
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    You could tell the security guy at the metal detector that he is interfering with a court summons. This might be more likely to work if you were subpoenaed, though.

    That said, I don't think following that advice will end well, but good luck if you do.

  3. #3
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    You really need to post this in the MN forum.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
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  4. #4
    Regular Member rotty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simmonsjoe View Post
    You really need to post this in the MN forum.
    If it was an active part of the site I would have done just that. I thought this was more of a legal question which is why I posted in the law library section.
    - Knowledge is power and there IS strength in numbers -

    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    - Thomas Jefferson

  5. #5
    Regular Member rotty's Avatar
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    This is the letter I just sent certified mail to the local sheriff.

    Sherriff Dave Bellows
    1580 Highway 55
    Hastings, MN 55033


    Dear Sir,

    Persuant with MN statute 609.66 I am notifying you, the Sherriff of Dakota County, in writing, by certified mail, that I will be in the Dakota County Court Complex in Hastings Minnesota for Jury Duty During the month of Oct and do intend to carry my pistol with me while there under the rights afforded to me in section 624.714.
    - Knowledge is power and there IS strength in numbers -

    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    - Thomas Jefferson

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    Gutsy move. Keep us posted.

  7. #7
    Regular Member rotty's Avatar
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    Thanks, I don't know about gutsy though. The permit here is to carry, not to conceal, and they put a section in the law about carrying at Courthouses so I am taking advantage of that. You can bet your ass I will have a recorder going though.
    - Knowledge is power and there IS strength in numbers -

    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    - Thomas Jefferson

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    Oh, it's gutsy. Even if the law is on your side, there are folks with a lot of power who will think otherwise. What you are doing is a big risk.

  9. #9
    Regular Member rotty's Avatar
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    I FULLY expect if I do end up in a courtroom that a judge will force the issue (as he has the right to) and make me secure it in the sheriffs office which is connected to the court facility.

    My point is that they made the law, if I comply, am I allowed to OC and go about my normal everyday business ?
    - Knowledge is power and there IS strength in numbers -

    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    - Thomas Jefferson

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    Where's that "eating popcorn" smiley when I need it.
    Keep us posted Rotty. I really want to know what happens.

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    OT: This one?

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    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    Well we know you'll get to the courtroom. But will it be as a juror, or defendant?

    Sorry, couldn't help it.

  13. #13
    Regular Member TOF's Avatar
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    In the Free State of Arizona courthouses provide secure storage for your weapon while inside the secure zone.
    If you woke up breathing, congratulations! You get another chance.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Motofixxer's Avatar
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    My popcorn is cooking right now, BRB I just heard the beep.
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    Regular Member tletourneau's Avatar
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    The letter you sent should take care of the court house but not the court room. The court house is controlled by the sheriff and the letter of notice you sent will let you carry in the un-secure areas of the court house. The court room is controlled by the judge and it is up to the judge to decide if you can carry in the court room. If the judge decides not to allow it the sheriff should secure the weapon while you are in the court room or any other secure area of the building. Remember that the letter you sent is not to ask permission to carry in the court house but to inform the sheriff that you will be, the sheriff can not deny you your right to carry in the un-secure areas of the court house after being notified.

    At least that's the way I understand it. If I'm wrong I'm sure someone will correct me.
    Thanks,

    Tom

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  16. #16
    Regular Member rotty's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=tletourneau;1355882]The letter you sent should take care of the court house but not the court room. The court house is controlled by the sheriff and the letter of notice you sent will let you carry in the un-secure areas of the court house. The court room is controlled by the judge and it is up to the judge to decide if you can carry in the court room. If the judge decides not to allow it the sheriff should secure the weapon while you are in the court room or any other secure area of the building. Remember that the letter you sent is not to ask permission to carry in the court house but to inform the sheriff that you will be, the sheriff can not deny you your right to carry in the un-secure areas of the court house after being notified.

    Quote Originally Posted by rotty View Post
    I FULLY expect if I do end up in a courtroom that a judge will force the issue (as he has the right to) and make me secure it in the sheriffs office which is connected to the court facility.
    Exactly what I said. But ty for the response.
    - Knowledge is power and there IS strength in numbers -

    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    - Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
    G19 Gen 4; Bersa Thunder 380; Sig Sauer P238; Kel-Tec su-16c

  18. #18
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rotty View Post
    If it was an active part of the site I would have done just that. I thought this was more of a legal question which is why I posted in the law library section.
    The LAW LIBRARY, while grossly underdeveloped, is for summaries of often requested legal information and case history relevant to open carry. (To make citation much easier, and as a FAQ to cover the questions we are asked 2 times a week.)

    It is not a Q&A forum for legal advice. OCDO provides no legal advice.

    Good luck with this endeavor!
    Last edited by simmonsjoe; 09-16-2010 at 07:48 PM.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
    G19 Gen 4; Bersa Thunder 380; Sig Sauer P238; Kel-Tec su-16c

  19. #19
    Regular Member rotty's Avatar
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    Please feel free to move or delete the post then.
    - Knowledge is power and there IS strength in numbers -

    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    - Thomas Jefferson

  20. #20
    Regular Member rotty's Avatar
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    Certified Mail received from Sheriff

    " Dear Sir,
    We received your letter notifying us of your intent to carry a pistol on site at the Dakota County Court complex in October during jury duty. Please see the attached court order dated from May 2006 "
    The court order reads -

    District Court First Judicial District

    ORDER

    Persuant to the administrative authority of the chief judge under Minn stat 484.6, subd 3: the inherent judicial power of the court under Article 1, 8Article 3, 1 and Article 6, 1
    Of the Minnesota Constitution rules 2.02 (e) and (f) Rules of practice - District Courts: Minn Stat subds 1 and 3; and Minn stat 609.66 Subd. 1g (3) and (4)

    IT IS ORDERED
    1. Effective immediately all persons including those who have a permit under Minn Stat 624.714 are PROHIBITED from having firearms on their person or in their possession in courtrooms, adjacent hallways, and other areas attendant to the court function so designated excepted as provided in paragraph 2 below

    This order does not applyu to
    licensed peace officers or military personnel who are performing official duties

    Persons who possess firearms for the purpose of display as demonstrative evidence during testimony at a trial or exhibition in compliance with advance notice and safety guidelines set by the sheriff

    Persons who posses dangerous weapons in a courthouse complex with the express written consent of the county sheriff

    Dated 5/31 2006 signed by chief judge William Macklin



    So there you have it .. a judge has written an order basically making the LAW in place VOID.

    Not sure how the hell he has the power to do that ... but apparantly .. he does.
    - Knowledge is power and there IS strength in numbers -

    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    - Thomas Jefferson

  21. #21
    Regular Member tletourneau's Avatar
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    Do you mind if I copy this on carryforum.com (a dedicated MN carry forum) to inform members there if they have the same question?
    Thanks,

    Tom

    ----------------------------------
    Springfield XD-40 Service
    Taurus PT-111 Pro (3rd Gen)
    Desert Eagle .50AE Mark VII

  22. #22
    Regular Member rotty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tletourneau View Post
    Do you mind if I copy this on carryforum.com (a dedicated MN carry forum) to inform members there if they have the same question?
    no problem
    - Knowledge is power and there IS strength in numbers -

    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    - Thomas Jefferson

  23. #23
    Regular Member tletourneau's Avatar
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    Thanks rotty! It's at http://www.carryforum.com/forum/view...182256#p182256 if anyone want to see the responses (if any ). I also asked opinions just because the response from the sheriff seems to defeat the purpose of MN statute 609.66 Subd 1g (b)(2) and the exclusivity clause in MN statute 624.714 Subd 23, but I'm no lawyer so what do I know.
    Last edited by tletourneau; 09-17-2010 at 08:09 PM.
    Thanks,

    Tom

    ----------------------------------
    Springfield XD-40 Service
    Taurus PT-111 Pro (3rd Gen)
    Desert Eagle .50AE Mark VII

  24. #24
    Regular Member rotty's Avatar
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    Definitely not the response I expected. And I am no lawyer either but something about this after looking up the cited sections and rules smells fishy. If I was a lawyer I certainly would have to question the legality of that judges order.
    - Knowledge is power and there IS strength in numbers -

    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    - Thomas Jefferson

  25. #25
    Regular Member rotty's Avatar
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    I thought I would post copies of what I received today. I did leave out the last line on the letter from the sheriff in the original post.

    Sorry you will have to rotate the one letter .. it was scanned upside down.

    You can do that in acrobat reader by going to file, rotate
    Attached Files Attached Files
    - Knowledge is power and there IS strength in numbers -

    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    - Thomas Jefferson

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