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"discussing" with hardcore anti-gun people

Shotgun

Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Joined
Aug 23, 2006
Messages
2,668
Location
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
The Don, good article!

I particularly like this



This is what we need to hammer our legislators with Constitutional Carry works! There are not 'wild west shootouts', no 'blood in the streets'.

Yes Vermont has always been an "inconvenient truth" to be ignored by anti-gun people.

This is also of interest:

"If you dig deep enough into the Uniform Crime Report and do an analysis of the data, you will find that the state at the top of the Brady Campaign’s “good” list, California, has a violent crime rate that averages 13% higher than the rest of America.

While the state at the bottom of their list, the one that they claim has the least restricive gun control laws, Utah, has a violent crime rate that is 56% lower"


http://www.americanconservativedaily.com/2010/02/brady-campaign-releases-state-gun-control-grades/
 

Captain Nemo

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
1,029
Location
Somewhere, Wisconsin, USA
Most people treat the constitutions similar to how they treat the bible. They accept, respect and adhere to only those disciplines that tend to support their own convictions and lifestyles. Most antis claim to be God fearing yet they ignore that jesus himself believed in personal protection.


Luke 22:35-37
35Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?"
"Nothing," they answered.

36He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.
 

The Don

Guest
Joined
May 28, 2010
Messages
397
Location
in your pants
I realize, as a couple of you have said, I'm probably not going to change the mind of a hardcore anti, but I'm going to pull out a few of the more interesting tidbits of the article and send it to them, as well as the link to the full article. Maybe it'll dwell on their subconscious and have an effect over time. If they bother to read it, I mean.

http://gunowners.org/fs0404.htm

Yeah, so I sent it off...the emotional guy just wrote back, "I choose not to read it." and the former marine wrote back, "delete", then later followed it with, "I honestly don't care either way about handgun or firearm pro/con arguements. I own them, but don't feel the insecure need to walk around in public with one. If the government lets me keep them in my home, without bugging me than that is sufficient enough for me. Stats may show reduced crime from redneck idiots walking around with theirs, but honestly I'd prefer to leave the inept shootings up to the police vs my neighbor across the way."

Yeah, you certainly wouldn't want to risk reading anything that challenges your world-view, now would you, guys?

Oh well, I tried.

On the plus side, I've been talking with my wife a lot more about gun rights, open carry, concealed carry, etc. She's come around nearly all the way. Even is wondering if anyone knows of any risks of her actually learning to shoot the pistol I bought her with her being pregant. Anyone have any info on that? She's about 6 months pregnant.
 
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OCmyXD

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2010
Messages
32
Location
Pewaukee, Wisconsin, USA
... Even is wondering if anyone knows of any risks of her actually learning to shoot the pistol I bought her with her being pregant. Anyone have any info on that? She's about 6 months pregnant.

Depending on the range's ammo requirements, she may be risking exposure to lead and/or mercury. Additionally, I would be concerned with the noise factor.

Interesting read...

http://iweb.tntech.edu/cpardue/pregnant.html

Now, the bad news is, once the baby comes there will be far less time to learn to shoot that new gun!
 

The Don

Guest
Joined
May 28, 2010
Messages
397
Location
in your pants
thanks!

looks like she won't want to risk it right now.

my parents have about 20 acres in the country, maybe we'll head out there in the spring, after the baby comes, let them babysit in the house and I'll work with her outside.
 

phred

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2010
Messages
768
Location
North Central Wisconsin, ,
It was once written that the problem is the actual mindset of the anti gun individual. An anti cannot imagine (in their mind) how one could have a firearm and not go crazy and kill everybody. They actually think if they (the anti) had a gun they would loose control and shoot someone.

Soooooo....

Because they (antis) cannot see how they could possibly have a firearm and not end up using it for an illegal purpose, and because there is no way you/me/we (those who carry) could possibly be more mentally stable, they conclude that just as they imagine they would, we too will use the firearm for an illegal purpose and therefore nobody should have a firearm.

Paraphrase: They KNOW they would go nuts if they had a firearm, and we aren't any better than they are, so they KNOW we will go nuts also.

Those who do not support our right to carry are weak minded and live every day in fear. A pitiful existence.


It's an excellent way to put it. I've had many antis tell me that people who carry guns are paranoid. I respond that we are far less paranoid than they are because they don't even trust themselves. I tell them that paranoia is an irrational fear. Fear of criminals is not irrational because it's based in reality. Fear of EVERYBODY, your neighbor, your SELF-- that is the height of paranoia.

I most certainly agree with these reasons.

Another reason why “antis” exist is that they subscribe to the sheeple mentality. It has been inferred in previous posts in this thread. Sheeple will not admit to existence of violence as it affects them. They know violence exists, but not for them, and they associate firearms with violence. After all, firearms are primarily for killing, aren’t they? Sheeple think that the evil exists in the firearm and not the person using it. They will not admit that “the somebody” is evil and the firearm may bring it (evil) out in them (the perp). If they see a gun, they think it will jump up, point in their direction, and fire of its own volition. Part of this is ignorance. Sheeple do not want to know how a firearm works (or behaves). The argument against guns is easier to fathom in their own minds because it is simpler for them. It is also a matter of control. If nobody has a gun, then everybody is equal. If everybody is equal, then there won’t be violence - mutual disarmament. We all know how good that works, don’t we!

I would rather subscribe to the poem from an advertisement for the Equalizer, a Colt Single Action Handgun(1880-1890) - The Equalizer
Be not afraid of any man, No matter what his size.
When danger threatens, call on me. And I will equalize.

(Of course, I like my SA 1911 better.)


There will always be people who will rely on others for protection. They expect government to provide that protection. The expectation is so great that they actually believe it. Of course, it has helped that through the years the government has told them what to expect.

If firearms hadn’t been invented, the sheeple would have the same phobia against the club or bat, (ancient weapon of choice), and baseball would have never been invented.

Hmm, I wonder where "survival of the fittest" fits into the discussion?
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
It depends on why they are anti-gun. ..

Not contradicting; just using the quoted material as a springboard to introduce another piece of info.

Keep in mind that a certain percentage of the population is anti-social or has anti-social tendencies. Meaning, they are opposed to things that benefit, help, or improve things for others. These people are also anywhere from slightly to psychotically nuts. Many of these people are very good at hiding it.

It is always possible the particular anti-gunner to whom you are talking is actually a "hiding it" anti-social who is opposed to more than just guns. You just hear about the gun opposition because that is the subject under discussion, so you miss the rest of the story.

I strongly suspect that a number of the "transference" type of people fit into this category. I don't know that they do, but I'm betting a number of them do.

So, the moral of the story is not to get too disappointed in not converting or changing an anti-gunner. Some of them are bound to be anti-social people whose opposition to positive things for humanity is deepseated. For such a person, the issue is not gun-rights--which are really nothing more than an outlet for his opposition. The issue is is his opposition to humanity.
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
I'm borrowing this from someone; apologies if I don't remember it quite right:

What if 2A said:
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep & read books shall not be infringed.

Would they think that only the government is allowed to have & read books?
 

BROKENSPROKET

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Messages
2,199
Location
Trempealeau County
Most people treat the constitutions similar to how they treat the bible. They accept, respect and adhere to only those disciplines that tend to support their own convictions and lifestyles. Most antis claim to be God fearing yet they ignore that jesus himself believed in personal protection.


Luke 22:35-37
35Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?"
"Nothing," they answered.

36He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

Whenever someone quotes scripture, I like to read it in context, reading the whole chapter. So I did. It is very interesting that these words were spoken at the table of the Last Supper, just before departing to the Mount of Olives where Jesus was arrested.

RSV-Catholic Edition

35 He said to them, "When I sent you out with no purse or bag or sandals, did you lack anything?" They said, "Nothing."
36 He said to them, "But now, let him who has purse take it, and likewise a bag. And let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one."
37 "For I tell you that scripture must be fullfilled in me, 'And he was reckoned with transgessors'; for what is written about me has its fullfillment."
38 And they said, "Look, Lord, here are two swords." And he said to them, "It is enough."
 
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