Disclosure and/or giving ID

lapeer20m said:

???

I am a little slow sometimes, so help me understand......how does 28.425f apply to open carry on a bicycle or motorcycle? (or any open carry for that matter?)



when i read that, it clearly indicates that you only have duty to disclose when you are in fact carrying a concealed pistol. I still maintain that if open carrying, you have no duty to disclose.

I do believe that you get more flies with honey, and it is perfectly ok to disclose and produce cpl during an oc encounter, but legally it appears very black and white that you are only required to disclose when actually carrying concealed, or having a concealed pistol in your vehicle. ie: pistol in your glovebox, under the seat, even worn owb oc in the car because the pistol is hidden between you and the center consol, (the way i read it, even unloaded pistol in a case in the trunk would require disclosure with cpl)

open carry on a bike is open carry.

am i misreading the mcl? I have been known to miss some very obvious things from time to time.

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Two different things come into play and may be adding to the confusion. First the discloser part of the statute is clear, IF carrying concealed and are lawfully stopped by a LEO you must tell them you have a concealed handgun (only if you have a CPL, criminals are not obligated to inform.).

The second issue is, do you need to have a CPL to transport a loaded handgun while on a bicycle. Here is where some gray clouds are forming. The statute does not define what a vehicle is, so the courts use the dictionary for help. Some people argue that a bicycle IS a vehicle under a broad definition. Other say the intent is motorized vehicles. SO in this case a LEO could say you have to have a CPL when you are on a bike whether OCing or CCing. But regardless of this area of the law, you would not have to disclose you are carrying a concealed weapon when you are just OCing.

i agree that a bicycle is a vehicle. The gray area that needs to be defined either by a new statute, or by the courts is whether an openly carried pistol is "in the vehicle"

I think most everyone agrees that non cpl oc on a motorcycle or even a bicycle should not be attempted because although probably legal, the penalty if found guilty of violating *edited...the correct mcl is 750.227* is a felony.

I think you are correct that this issue is adding to the confusion of the original question about disclosure. Disclosure seems to be black and white. no concealed pistol = no duty to disclose.

I would also like to add that i was stopped while oc'iing on my motorcycle and did not disclose that i was carrying (obviously he knew i had a gun, since he told me that's the reason he stopped me) and i did not immediately disclose that i had a cpl. This turned out to be a non-issue. The officer was quite certain that i was breaking the law because i had a pistol on a motorcycle, and i had a cpl and was not carrying concealed, as a cpl obviously requires you to carry concealed! (sarcasm) He went back to his car and called the prosecutor on his cell phone. Then he came back and let me go about my business.

Just because it was not an issue in my particular situation, doesn't mean an officer and prosecutor may not make an issue out of it somewhere else or at a different time.

lapeer20m said:

, the penalty if found guilty of violating 750.234d is a felony.

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750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
Sec. 234d.


(3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.


234d penalties are misdemeanors, were you referring to 750.231a?

stainless1911 said:

750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
Sec. 234d.


(3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.


234d penalties are misdemeanors, were you referring to 750.231a?

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my mistake. thanks for keeping me on my toes. I had the wrong number in my brain, the mcl i was meant to reference:

750.227 Concealed weapons; carrying; penalty.

750.227 Concealed weapons; carrying; penalty.

Sec. 227.

(2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.

(3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a felony

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Me too, lol. I thought 227 for a sec, then settled on 231. :banghead: