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Thread: OC at Allegan County Fair?

  1. #1
    Regular Member quarter horseman's Avatar
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    OC at Allegan County Fair?

    Does anyone know if you can OC at Allegan co. fair grounds? I may be going this week sometime and would like to OC if I can.
    Last edited by quarter horseman; 09-09-2010 at 07:12 AM.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Yes -- but

    If they have a beer tent, you'll need to stay clear of that. I wouldn't plan on visiting the grand stands either. Both of these places are kosher, of course, if you have a CPL.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    It is private property ......
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by autosurgeon View Post
    It is private property ......
    The fairground is private property? That's unusual.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  5. #5
    Regular Member quarter horseman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by autosurgeon View Post
    It is private property ......
    Thanks Q and auto

    They would have to have it posted no guns somewhere on the outside of the gates correct? I guess I'll have to do some investigations deeper into it, maybe call today and try to get an answer.

  6. #6
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quarter horseman View Post
    Thanks Q and auto

    They would have to have it posted no guns somewhere on the outside of the gates correct? I guess I'll have to do some investigations deeper into it, maybe call today and try to get an answer.
    If it's public property, there's nothing they can do about OC. State law preempts restrictions.

    If it's private property, private property rules trump state law.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  7. #7
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    .

    Quote Originally Posted by quarter horseman View Post
    Thanks Q and auto

    They would have to have it posted no guns somewhere on the outside of the gates correct? I guess I'll have to do some investigations deeper into it, maybe call today and try to get an answer.
    Only ask , if the property is private!!!
    do not ask if carrying guns is OK with them!
    if you do that, they will undoubtedly, tell you NO, and put up signs!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  8. #8
    Regular Member quarter horseman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    If it's public property, there's nothing they can do about OC. State law preempts restrictions.

    If it's private property, private property rules trump state law.
    Yes thank you that is understood, now I guess the question is, has there been anyone who has Oced there or knows if there is any no gun signs? I will call when I'm on my lunch break and see what I can find out.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quarter horseman View Post
    Yes thank you that is understood, now I guess the question is, has there been anyone who has Oced there or knows if there is any no gun signs? I will call when I'm on my lunch break and see what I can find out.
    If it's public property, any no guns sign is unenforcible.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Jerbear1098's Avatar
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    Looks like from this site, it could be private property.

    http://www.allegancountyfair.org/all...ityrental.html

    Not sure though.

    Good Luck and enjoy the fair.
    "It isn't that Liberals are ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so" --Ronald Reagan

  11. #11
    Regular Member quarter horseman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    Only ask , if the property is private!!!
    do not ask if carrying guns is OK with them!
    if you do that, they will undoubtedly, tell you NO, and put up signs!


    No worries I wont mention it, thanks.

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    most fairgrounds in the state are private property run by private fair boards. One exception is the Genesee County Fairgrounds which is in fact county property.

    It appears they may be owned/run by the allagen county ag society, which is most likely a private affair. The web sight doesn't specifically say. I did some googling, but could not find the answer.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lapeer20m View Post
    most fairgrounds in the state are private property run by private fair boards. One exception is the Genesee County Fairgrounds which is in fact county property.

    It appears they may be owned/run by the allagen county ag society, which is most likely a private affair. The web sight doesn't specifically say. I did some googling, but could not find the answer.
    If any Public Monies are used for the fair in any manner, then I would believe that the Festival Contract would state the Festival has to meet State Laws and rights could not be denied.

    Just my $.02...
    Last edited by PDinDetroit; 09-09-2010 at 12:49 PM. Reason: Edited for clarity.

  14. #14
    Regular Member quarter horseman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lapeer20m View Post
    most fairgrounds in the state are private property run by private fair boards. One exception is the Genesee County Fairgrounds which is in fact county property.

    It appears they may be owned/run by the allagen county ag society, which is most likely a private affair. The web sight doesn't specifically say. I did some googling, but could not find the answer.
    You are correct! I called on my lunch, I could not find anything on no guns. I'll look tomorrow at the entrance to see if I can find something.

    Hopefully between now and then someone will have more information for me.

  15. #15
    Regular Member quarter horseman's Avatar
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    Good Luck and enjoy the fair.[/QUOTE]

    Thanks!
    I hope I can enjoy OCing tomorrow, carry on

  16. #16
    Regular Member quarter horseman's Avatar
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    NO sign that I could see

    I looked all over the entrance to the fairgrounds and did not see any sign posted no guns. I may have missed it, so it's not 100% fact. I was not sure about the rule, so I didnt even bring the sig. Carry on

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    I know this is almost 2 years old but did you find out or anyone oc'd here since this thread started ??

    I plan on attending and want to know...

  18. #18
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    I know that now -- you've quoted a post nearly 2 years old
    Just noticed that. Why do people do that... where do they find these??
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    Just noticed that. Why do people do that... where do they find these??
    Google...?
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    If it's private property, private property rules trump state law.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was always under the impression that private property rules hold no weight with regard to firearm laws, they can only trespass an individual if they don't follow the rules. In other words, if there's a "no firearms" sign, police can't arrest me for carrying there, correct?

  21. #21
    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kubel View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was always under the impression that private property rules hold no weight with regard to firearm laws, they can only trespass an individual if they don't follow the rules. In other words, if there's a "no firearms" sign, police can't arrest me for carrying there, correct?
    If you were asked to leave for carrying, and refused, the police might arrest you, but it would likely be for trespassing. There is no carry/firearms law I am aware of that you would be breaking, but if a private property owner asks you to leave their property for that or any reason, and you refuse, you are in violation of 750.552

  22. #22
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    If it's public property, there's nothing they can do about OC. State law preempts restrictions.

    If it's private property, private property rules trump state law.
    Someone needs to tell that to the Kzoo County Fair held at the fairgrounds owned by the county of Kalamazoo.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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